The Mass Effect 3/BioWare Thread

[Tytus]

BUT, BUT...

VEGA DURING THE GAME SAYS HE HEARS THIS WEIRD RINGING ON THE SHIP. AND WHEN YOU READ THE CODEX ENTRY ON INDOCTRINATION A CONSTANT SIGNAL IN YOUR EARS IS ONE OF THE SYMPOTMS OF BEING INDOCTRINATED. INDOCTRINATION THEORY IS REAL!

 

[Necroscope]

I can understand them believing it at the time. But still believing that all of it's still valid, despite the fact that most primary evidence that it was possible having been cleaned out by the extended cut, and what remains relying on a shitton of vague assumptions.

It's better to remain in denial than to kill yourself out of desperation.

 

[Space Satan]

 

[Lhynn]

emote galore

Never heard of the Drowned Sheep Theory? it says that its all the delusion of a sheep that has just drowned and before it dies it has a vision, that vision is everything that happens in mass effect.
Explains successfully plot holes in the series with "but of course, if its a sheep dreams its bound to not make sense".
It simply is too convenient, a lot of things point towards it, nothing really debunks it, and most of the things against it are arguments against a single point of evidecence. Jesus fucking christ, i said i was done, i just cannot believe people can be that stupid or ignorant, it really calls for a study.

 

[GarfunkeL]

i just cannot believe people can be that stupid or ignorant, it really calls for a study.

The ironic hilarity of a guy who believes in one crackpot theory slamming down a similarly stupid crackpot theory.

 

[Jick Magger]

It simply is too convenient, a lot of things point towards it, nothing really debunks it, and most of the things against it are arguments against a single point of evidecence. Jesus fucking christ, i said i was done, i just cannot believe people can be that stupid or ignorant, it really calls for a study.

Do you live in a bizarro dimension where the Extended Edition never happened?

 

[Necroscope]

Extended Edition

Followed by the Leviathan DLC which goes even further into the nonsensical motives of the Reapers. Then there are comments of the writers themselves in which they go in-depth about their favorite ending, and the devs diary which is also telling in terms of the intentions behind the contrived epilogue. The evidences are overwhelming and can't be dismissed.

 

[Lhynn]

i just cannot believe people can be that stupid or ignorant, it really calls for a study.

The ironic hilarity of a guy who believes in one crackpot theory slamming down a similarly stupid crackpot theory.

Study as in why people refuse to believe what is right there, itd be an interesting read.

Necroscope Quotes plox, links, i want to read.
Jick_Magger_101 nope, after seeing it again there is nothing that disproves it, its just a couple of half assed images that show how sheppard would have wanted things to end.

 

[Necroscope]

Ok, I'm gonna start googling and researching BSN right away just to prove what anybody with half a brain already knows.

 

[Lhynn]

Ok, I'm gonna start googling and researching BSN right away just to prove what anybody with half a brain already knows.

Cool, could you also find something that bothers debunking shit from the IT without attributing them to lazyness? Because thats what seems to be the only real excuse they can come up with.

 

[Jick Magger]

Jick_Magger_101 nope, after seeing it again there is nothing that disproves it, its just a couple of half assed images that show how sheppard would have wanted things to end.

The option to refuse. The very fact that Shepard is now able to outright refuse to make a decision on the matter shows that he is still perfectly in control of his mental faculties. If he was able to refuse while in the deepest throes of indoctrination, that would imply that the Reapers allowed him to be able to simply say "fuck it" and bleed out on the ground. In which case, why bother giving him a choice at all? If simply leaving him to die in a corner and guaranteeing their victory was always a possibility, why wake him up and outright offer him the chance to destroy you all at the pull of a trigger? For that matter, why would the Catalyst then be frustrated over your indecision? Wouldn't he be happy since you just guaranteed the reapers a chance at victory?

That and it snatches up most of the 'things' that everyone initially pointed at the obvious proof of IC: it clarified that the 'destroy' ending is the only one with a gasping Shepard because it's also the only one which doesn't require Shepard's death. Gives a cutscene to explain where your squadmates go, giving an epilogue in general, etc. Where in these epilogues is the faintest hint given that something is amiss? Anything? Wouldn't they want to take the opportunity given by the chance to revise the ending to make it a little more obvious? I'm not asking for Brazil here. Maybe a bit of visual glitches, a few subtle hints here and there, a la Taxi Driver. Oh no, instead they just stick on a, well, mundane happy ending with absolutely nothing to actually hint that it's anything beyond a generic happy ending. They've scrubbed the whole thing clear of ambiguity and used the opportunity to desperately insist that this is nothing more than a happy ending through-and-through.

And once again, the Prothean hologram didn't detect that he was indoctrinated. Arguing that it didn't notice because he was "only partially indoctrinated" is a whole other load of bullshit because it introduces a whole other can of worms in regards to indoctrination, which we know little to nothing about. So now the process is easily seperatable? How do you know Kai Leng is 'more indoctrinated' than Shepard? (because, as I said, we already have an in-character explanation as to why he'd want to fight Shepard which doesn't even require him to be indoctrinated to fit), where is it explained how Prothean indocrination-detection technology only works when you're fully indoctrinated?

Seriously, you think this is the first time fans have desperately clung to the overly-elaborate theories they string together? There's an entire fucking TVTropes article dedicated to this.

 

[Necroscope]

From Patrick Weekes:

And then, just to be a dick… what was SUPPOSED to happen was that, say you picked “Destroy the Reapers”. When you did that, the system was SUPPOSED to look at your score, and then you’d show a cutscene of Earth that was either:

a) Very high score: Earth obviously damaged, but woo victory

b) Medium score: Earth takes a bunch of damage from the Crucible activation. Like dropping a bomb on an already war-ravaged city. Uh, well, maybe not LIKE that as much as, uh, THAT.

c) Low score: Earth is a cinderblock, all life on it completely wiped out

I have NO IDEA why these different cutscenes aren’t in there. As far as I know, they were never cut. Maybe they were cut for budget reasons at the last minute. I don’t know. But holy crap, yeah, I can see how incredibly disappointing it’d be to hear of all the different ending possibilities and have it break down to “which color is stuff glowing?” Or maybe they ARE in, but they’re too subtle to really see obvious differences, and again, that’s… yeah.

From Wikia

 

[Xor]

Sure, it only takes about 10 minutes using google to completely debunk the IT using statements from the developers, but why bother listening to that when you have a completely unsubstantiated theory that can't be disproven because you just reject any contrary evidence?

 

[XenomorphII]

Sure, it only takes about 10 minutes using google to completely debunk the IT using statements from the developers, but why bother listening to that when you have a completely unsubstantiated theory that can't be disproven because you just reject any contrary evidence?

Don't you know? That is just clever misinformation spread by the devs! It is so obvious! They have to keep the reveal secret until ME4 after all!

(Maybe I should have done it in all caps to be more authentic.)

 

[Necroscope]

The only kind of evidence that could *potentially* convince such ppl would be an official statement from the devs in which they would directly call the IT bulshit - which obviously won't happen as being cryptic and indirect about anything is what PR is all about (vide the recent "Survivor 2999" hoax).

 

[tuluse]

This thread has taken a strange turn at some point.

 

[Lhynn]

There is no partially indoctrinated, either you are or you arent. shepard wasnt when he found the IA, reapers were trying since back in arrival tho.
Where do i get what i know about indoctrination? the dictionary mostly. Where does IT come from? art direction, subtle hints and plot holes the size of a mountain.

Jick_Magger_101
1) the option to refuse is there because indoctrination is about your will breaking. If shaprd either resists and goes for destruction, or completely refuses and rather die than actually die than comply, in both those cases the reapers simply failed to indoctrinate him. Harbringer had a personal vendetta against you, he wanted to break you, he couldnt, its obviously frustrating. i know the last part is weak but it has been established before. If harbinger wanted you dead, he had a of opportunities to kill you, easily, there is a reason he didnt take any of them.

2) and he ended up in the rubble in london when he was suposedly in the citadel because of space magic...? im not buying it. and how can it be a happy ending if shepard just raped the whole galaxy with techno magic or became the new TIM wannabe?

3) the jap super dude is indoctrinated, shepards mind is still holding strong. Plus even the game states that VIs failed to detect indoctrinated protheans in the past, 50k years ago. and were buttfucked by infiltrated indoctrinated protheans.

Anyway, i have no doubt in my mind it was their intent to make it the IT the real thing and weeks down the line release a free dlc with the actual ending of the game continuing right after the final moments of the original game to "blow everyones minds". They werent counting on people being offended at the stupidest non ending in the story of video games from the company which had, according the them "THE BEST WRITING EVAZZZ". PR paniqued, and etc, etc etc.

tuluse mostly killing time here.

 

[Akratus]

emote galore

Never heard of the Drowned Sheep Theory? it says that its all the delusion of a sheep that has just drowned and before it dies it has a vision, that vision is everything that happens in mass effect.
Explains successfully plot holes in the series with "but of course, if its a sheep dreams its bound to not make sense".
It simply is too convenient, a lot of things point towards it, nothing really debunks it, and most of the things against it are arguments against a single point of evidecence. Jesus fucking christ, i said i was done, i just cannot believe people can be that stupid or ignorant, it really calls for a study.

 

[Necroscope]

Anyway, i have no doubt in my mind it was their intent to make it the IT the real thing and weeks down the line release a free dlc with the actual ending of the game continuing right after the final moments of the original game to "blow everyones minds". They werent counting on people being offended at the stupidest non ending in the story of video games from the company which had, according the them "THE BEST WRITING EVAZZZ". PR paniqued, and etc, etc etc.

Could you please rephrase this paragraph?

 

[Lhynn]

Sure, basically i think they were going ofr indoctrination, they wanted their masterpiece to blow everyones minds so they left subtle clues everywhere, this we have seen. heck, some of you have said that this is the reason they were there, part of a discarded ending that was never removed in its entirety.
the last 15 minutes dont make any sense, they are either the product of a 12 year old mentally challenged writer or it was done like this on purpose, you guys incline to believe the first, i think the second one is more likely.

So we have a game without an ending, im talking about no ending whatsoever. nothing gets resolved.

I believe they intended to stirr up a lot of controversy, they wanted to do something clever, mindblowing and have everyone at the edge of their sits for a memorable thing, that would have been delivered down the line, as the final DLC. It just bit them in the ass, PR got so scared it closed the company off from the outside world, it got everyone to make no comments, At this point i kinda doubt well ever see the intended ending.

Extended cut was made to stop the disaster and enough sheeps were willing to roll with it to give it a rest. Bioware took a huge hit and so did EA after this fiasco.

This is mostly unfounded, im just reading between the lines, but seems like the most likely scenario from were im standing.
And IT was definitely that intended ending, because everything aligns with it, and what didnt could be easily explained.

 

[Ninjerk]

This thread has taken a strange turn at some point.

The part where I posted in it and started getting updates about this inane shit.

 

[Xor]

the last 15 minutes dont make any sense, they are either the product of a 12 year old mentally challenged writer

You cracked the secret code!


So why does Shepard's indoctrination work differently than every other instance of indoctrination we've ever seen ever? Saren and that asari chick from the first game weren't having hallucinations with three colors to choose from, their indoctrination just forced them to believe that working for the reapers wouldn't end badly. The people in the arrival DLC didn't draw pictures of a little kid all over the walls, either, and they didn't appear to be having hallucinations when dealing with Shepard either. Also, the only time we've ever seen anyone resist indoctrination it didn't manifest as a hallucination, Saren just shot himself after realizing he no longer had control of his own mind.

And when the fuck did Shepard get indoctrinated? And if he wasn't indoctrinated until after that scene on the asari homeworld, then I guess all those dreams, headaches, etc couldn't be evidence he was indoctrinated, could they? And why would they even write the game to end on a cliffhanger if this was intended to be the last game in the series? Why would EA let them do that? Why would Bioware's management approve of an ending that would be guaranteed to piss people off? If they really had the "true ending" DLC that would reveal Shepard was indoctrinated ready, why wouldn't they just go ahead and release it to calm people down? As I recall, initially they just said they wanted to let the ending stand on its own and it was only after weeks of incredibly loud bitching that they started to talk about the extended cut. Even if they decided that the indoctrination ending wouldn't calm people down, why wouldn't they just admit to it but say they were going to change it in the extended cut to calm people down? Why have none of the people who worked on this game come forward to admit that was the true intention all along, and in fact why have they done the opposite and said that indoctrination was originally planned for a scene in the game but scrapped early in the development process? Why is it so difficult to accept that the game makes no sense because it was a rushed, poorly-managed project which lacked a sense of direction?

 

[2house2fly]

I guess believers of the theory would say that Bioware didn't plan for the ending to be bad or piss people off, but were expecting it to be completely satisfactory. Then they Blow Your Mind by saying "hey, that awesome ending that you liked so much? That wasn't even the real ending!" Then this final ending dLC sells in vast numbers, even though the market for downloadable content shrinks with every day that passes after a game's release, and Bioware become legendary for something other than letting you fuck all your party members.

Though that doesn't quite gel with the fact that the entire reason the indoctrination theory exists is that the game's ending was incredibly bad and pissed people off.

 

[Necroscope]

Where does IT come from? art direction, subtle hints and plot holes the size of a mountain.

The whole ME trilogy is badly structured and full of plot holes, retcons, narrative dead ends and McGuffins. The plot began to fall apart in ME2 which story is known to be sew together from various ideas from the earlier scenario -- in which Shepard was not even cooperating with the Cerberus and it was Legion who rescued him at the beginning of the game --- and some generic ideas added in the last minute (like the aforementioned Cerberus) - hence the quasi heist structure of the game. The suicide mission alone entombed a lot of the potential content ME3 could have had due to Bioware's inability to plan beyond borders of a single game. I don't know what makes you think that some of the plot holes are the result of bad writing, which ME3 is actually full of, and the other were part of some bigger plan. It's a far-fetched assumption, to say the least. Furthermore there are other examples of Bioware's severe incompetence in ME3 than the godawful writing. One may laugh at talimancers, for example, but how retarded was the idea to unveil one of the biggest secrets of the series by ass-pulling some badly shopped pic of a random chick from getty images, especially after all these amazing artworks made by fans?

"The subtle hints" you're talking about are nothing more but a wishful thinking. Really, it's easy to start connecting dots and construct a theory given such a complete clusterfuck of a story.

Extended cut was made to stop the disaster and enough sheeps were willing to roll with it to give it a rest.

The thing is, no one actually wanted the RGB endings to be true - it's Bioware who insisted on sticking with them because "Artistic Integrity". The IT theory was very popular and well received among the fans.

I believe they intended to stirr up a lot of controversy, they wanted to do something clever, mindblowing and have everyone at the edge of their sits for a memorable thing, that would have been delivered down the line, as the final DLC.

Not only there's no evidence to support this, but any available data on the matter proves contrary.

 

[Lhynn]

Not really, they were expecting a bit of backlash, they got completely overwhelmed, that much was clear. They panicked and werent able to handle it.

How is a photo from a model weak writing? i mean, its weak, but not really on the writing dpt.

ME2 had little to nothing to do with the main arc, arrival was the only thing that actually mattered really.