The Mass Effect 3/BioWare Thread

[Servo]

I said it before and I'll say it again:

cRPGs aren't a genre of their own.
The only thing they have in common is additional layer of mechanics that's stuck onto a game belonging to another genre.
Stick it on an FPS and you get Deus Ex, TES or VTMB.
Stick it on an RTS with its base/unit production layer stripped and you have BG and so on.

Stick it on an action game with good melee combat and you get Dark Souls?

 

[mondblut]

I said it before and I'll say it again:
cRPGs aren't a genre of their own.
The only thing they have in common is additional layer of mechanics that's stuck onto a game belonging to another genre.
Stick it on an FPS and you get Deus Ex, TES or VTMB.
Stick it on an RTS with its base/unit production layer stripped and you have BG and so on.

Stick it on ... and you get Wizardry, World of Xeen, Dark Sun and Goldbox series.

Oh wai-...

 

[DragoFireheart]

Stick it on ... and you get Wizardry, World of Xeen, Dark Sun and Goldbox series.

Oh wai-...

Dude, those are first-person Roguelikes.

 

[DraQ]

Stick it on ... and you get Wizardry, World of Xeen, Dark Sun and Goldbox series.

Oh wai-...

Would a TB crawler with just the inventory system or at best inventory+classes (Hexen isn't exactly RPG despite having those), no variable stats or advancement mechanics of any sort, be that far fetched?

I know RT tile based shooters existed, so why not a somewhat more tactical TB equivalents?

 

[mondblut]

Stick it on ... and you get Wizardry, World of Xeen, Dark Sun and Goldbox series.

Oh wai-...

Dude, those are first-person Roguelikes.

Roguelikes aren't a genre. They are Pacman clones "with additional layer of mechanics"

 

[mondblut]

Would a TB crawler with just the inventory system or at best inventory+classes (Hexen isn't exactly RPG despite having those), no variable stats or advancement mechanics of any sort, be that far fetched?

I know RT tile based shooters existed, so why not a somewhat more tactical TB equivalents?

I guess early CRPG devs possessed a time travel machine to rip off Space Hulk or Hired Guns and add "additional layer of mechanics" to them 10 years in the past.

 

[tuluse]

Stick it on ... and you get Wizardry, World of Xeen, Dark Sun and Goldbox series.

Oh wai-...

War games with an additional layer of mechanics.

 

[mondblut]

Stick it on ... and you get Wizardry, World of Xeen, Dark Sun and Goldbox series.

Oh wai-...

War games with an additional layer of mechanics.

Wizardry and Tigers on the Prowl have what exactly in common?

 

[SuicideBunny]

Wizardry, World of Xeen

War games with an additional layer of mechanics.

 

[DraQ]

Would a TB crawler with just the inventory system or at best inventory+classes (Hexen isn't exactly RPG despite having those), no variable stats or advancement mechanics of any sort, be that far fetched?

I know RT tile based shooters existed, so why not a somewhat more tactical TB equivalents?

I guess early CRPG devs possessed a time travel machine to rip off Space Hulk or Hired Guns and add "additional layer of mechanics" to them 10 years in the past.

How the fuck is it important if a version with or without extra mechanical layer was invented first or at all?

It's important that it can still exist without RPG elements, can still be a game and will be a distinct genre of its own.

Similarly, you could make an RPG-less roguelike, and it would still play like one, with all the randomness and interactivity involved.

 

[mondblut]

How the fuck is it important if a version with or without extra mechanical layer was invented first or at all?

Because all the FPS are just Gone Home with an extra mechanical layer, amirite?

Similarly, you could make an RPG-less roguelike, and it would still play like one, with all the randomness and interactivity involved.

Indeed.

 

[DraQ]

How the fuck is it important if a version with or without extra mechanical layer was invented first or at all?

Because all the FPS are just Gone Home with an extra mechanical layer, amirite?

Similarly, you could make an RPG-less roguelike, and it would still play like one, with all the randomness and interactivity involved.

Indeed.

A strawman this blatant is basically an admission of failure.

 

[mondblut]

How the fuck is it important if a version with or without extra mechanical layer was invented first or at all?

Because all the FPS are just Gone Home with an extra mechanical layer, amirite?

Similarly, you could make an RPG-less roguelike, and it would still play like one, with all the randomness and interactivity involved.

Indeed.

A strawman this blatant is basically an admission of failure.

 

[Necroscope]

If RPGs are not a genere, then what is a game with RPG elements?

 

[DraQ]

If RPGs are not a genere, then what is a game with RPG elements?

RPG elements need not constitute a genre.

 

[drae]

If RPGs are not a genere, then what is a game with RPG elements?

A sim

 

[Necroscope]

If RPGs are not a genere, then what is a game with RPG elements?

RPG elements need not constitute a genre.

That's not what I meant. How can a game have elements of something that is not a genere of it's own; say a FPS elements of RPG if due to your definition a RPG like Deus Ex is a FPS with additional layer of mechanics? It's, kind of, circular.

 

[Ninjerk]

If RPGs are not a genere, then what is a game with RPG elements?

RPG elements need not constitute a genre.

That's not what I meant. How can a game have elements of something that is not a genere of it's own; say a FPS elements of RPG if due to your definition a RPG like Deus Ex is a FPS with additional layer of mechanics? It's, kind of, circular.

The acronym "role playing game" isn't really descriptive of anything mechanically, whereas Real-time Strategy, First-Person Shooter, Third-Person Shooter, and the like very much are. Are "pure" RPGs like Baldur's Gate or Goldbox games not small-scale wargames mechanically?

 

[Necroscope]

If RPGs are not a genere, then what is a game with RPG elements?

RPG elements need not constitute a genre.

That's not what I meant. How can a game have elements of something that is not a genere of it's own; say a FPS elements of RPG if due to your definition a RPG like Deus Ex is a FPS with additional layer of mechanics? It's, kind of, circular.

The acronym "role playing game" isn't really descriptive of anything mechanically

What about stats (attributes, skills, powers etc.)?

 

[Martius]

With that logic most today games are rpgs since they have some kind of leveling and skill systems. Even Bioware said that, Call of Duty multiplayer is rpg just people dont know that!

 

[Necroscope]

A mere fact that a game has stats as such doesn't mean it's a RPG. I stopped reading at Bioware said.

 

[Delterius]

With that logic most today games are rpgs since they have some kind of leveling and skill systems. Even Bioware said that, Call of Duty multiplayer is rpg just people dont know that!

We are so quick to dismiss this whole thing that we are too stupid to realize something. When a retard says that some random action game is about roleplaying 'because you are playing a role' they are not entirely bereft of logic. Its just that the logic in question is rather superficial.

Most every game has a tactical layer to it, shallow or not. Yet, sports fans don't buy FIFA for the real time strategy. They buy it because its an action game. FIFA's mechanics, as with most every game, borrow from most every 'genre' at least superficially. Every player has stats and stuff. But the game isn't about manipulating those stats, its about making the most of them in an action based environment. FIFA is also in part about 'roleplaying' a whole team of soccer players, but your ability as a player isn't about decision making and character building/writing, which is what roleplaying is about. An RPG is a game that focus on roleplaying, just as an Action game focus on Action, a Strategy game focus on resource management and goal attainement and an Adventure game focus on exploration of the gameworld.

An RPG is about character and as long as you play someone with a character which is well defined mechanically -- which is to say, wether their statistics as adventurers or their past choices in the story necessarily define them from other potential states, such as a party of 8 characters where you, the player, made actual choices about the character's professions, defining clear competences among them, as opposed to one single Dovahkin who can and is encouraged to everything at the same time.

 

[Necroscope]

Calling a game like Deus Ex a FPS with additional layer of mechanics defies logic. Aside from using the same perspective, gameplay wise it has nothing to do with a First Person Shooter.

 

[Ninjerk]

You lost me there.

 

[DraQ]

What about stats (attributes, skills, powers etc.)?

That's pretty much that mechanical layer that can be slapped onto about anything...

With that logic most today games are rpgs since they have some kind of leveling and skill systems. Even Bioware said that, Call of Duty multiplayer is rpg just people dont know that!

...as many games today sadly demonstrate.