Might and Magic The Might and Magic Discussion Thread

[Dorateen]

I'm pretty sure he's implying he's playing only MM4, i.e. only Clouds of Xeen, not World of Xeen.

And I'm implying that it's fun to play 4 + 5 together, accessing either content in one simultaneous playthrough. Obviously not everyone does, but it is worth mentioning how the two games interact with one another.

 

[calgary.alberta]

nope sorry for the confusion, playing world of xeen. I hoped a bit into the first city on darkside with a young party lol

 

[Great Deceiver]

Darkside is way more challenging than Clouds, especially if you tackle both sides in parallel. There's a couple of dungeons you can only do on one side by getting the key on the other, if I'm not mistaken, so that's a cool feature.

I think the ending of WoX was very cool, one of the best cRPG endings of all time. I replay it every couple years, it's amazing - even if simplistic in terms of mechanics. It plays so fast and is so whimsical with loads of shit to see that it's simply a joy to go through.

MM6 is obviously a different beast but a very good game in its own right. I hope you enjoy it - and don't cheat yourself out of the fun by checking guides!

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

I will never understand how there are so many monocled users on this site who labor under the misapprehension that Mandate of Heaven is superior to World of Xeen. It boggles the mind.

 

[T. Reich]

you never mention acid burst...

Why should I? It's a rather mediocre (even poor, if you consider its steep mana cost) single target spell that deals poison damage.
Any ranged single target spell is downright shit in MM6-8, unless you're trying to pick off single tough flying enemies from a distance.

lolwut? its acid. i think only oozes got resistance to it.

It's POISON, mister. As is Dragon Breath, btw. Don't believe what you read in games.
And a whole bunch of mobs in MM6 are immune to poison, making poison-based spells useless vs them.
Most high-tier enemies in MM6 usually have: one or more damage immunity + moderate-high damage resistance to every type of damage + NO damage resistance weaknesses.
To make matters worse, different tiers of these enemies often have different damage immunities, which makes certain staple aoe spells of limited use when dealing with packs of these mobs.
Which makes physical damage spells with moderate cost some of the best in MM6 precisely because of how few mobs have phys immunity.

And I will reiterate - ALL single target spells in MM6-8 are highly uneconomical to use, unless you're finishing off single big fatties that you can't get close to.

 

[Darth Canoli]

I still advocate world-hopping between Clouds and Darkside. Imagine visiting Castleview with a low-ish level party who only finished Vertigo, maybe the first part of the Red Dwarf Mines, rather than with characters who completed as much as possible in Clouds of Xeen. You will encounter thrilling high level content soon enough that will send them scurrying back cloud side, gaining a few levels, then crisscrossing back and forth.

It's not to everyone's tastes, but it's how I experienced World of Xeen and made for a unique brand of adventure.

I agree and i'd add people replaying World of xeen should try with the spawn mod which doesn't just spawn monsters, it adds to the difficulty, for example, quests rewards from Darkside have been reduced (i checked the walkthrough for the enchanted pummel reward and it was 1M xp each, with the mod, it's 400k xp) but not just that, monsters are more efficient in inflicting various status making some monsters very annoying or very dangerous (like Power lichs).

So, because of the reduced xp rewards in darkside, it makes switching between darkside and clouds a better experience, not being overpowered in the cloudside by spending little time in the darkside (unless you farm diamond mines too soon ... )

Some of you say it's too easy, that's because you tacle the game in the right order, like it was linear.
Well, it's not.

So the challenge is there, wandering to get into trouble is where the fun is.

And i assure you, with the spawn mod, it's more challenging. Power Lichs in Necropolis killed me twice, missing quite often with Holy word so when there's more than one, it's the end of the road.
Barkman killed me at least twice, gamma gazers once (they're quite close to the mines ) and so on.
Actually, i didn't die nearly as frequently in all my Wizardry 8 playthrough (which is 3-4 playthrough )

I will never understand how there are so many monocled users on this site who labor under the misapprehension that Mandate of Heaven is superior to World of Xeen. It boggles the mind.

I don't get it either, well, to be fair, i really enjoyed M&M 6 and 7 back in the days, now, i can't even touch them while 3-5 are extremely fun.

 

[fantadomat]

World of Xeen is the way you play the games,not separately. Still i do remember that the last dungeon was a tad bit annoying,the one in the clouds,a lot of teleporting and falling to your death.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[T. Reich]

It's POISON, mister. As is Dragon Breath, btw. Don't believe what you read in games.

im evaluating firing a game to prove one of us wrong

I'm playing the game right now, nigger. Literally right now.
AND I have my excel spreadsheets.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[octavius]

In the days of my youth I thought numbers, tables and statistics were fascinating stuff.
Today I find numbers increasingly boring, and play more by feel.

 

[Lacrymas]

I play more by feel but wish I was playing more with the numbers.

 

[Tiospo]

I have played all of them but in my opinion the best is World of Xeen. MM3 is also great.

 

[fantadomat]

What is that thing that you call "numbers",is it some kind of magical spell,does it cost many gems?

 

[calgary.alberta]

Finished off MM5, love the ending, and the world of xeen ending. Again same game as 4, however I did like some of the monsters more!

Start my KDCS group in MM6 with grayface 2.1v and hd textures, looks so sick. Nice to be back in to a 3D for awhile LOL

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Finished off MM5, love the ending, and the world of xeen ending. Again same game as 4, however I did like some of the monsters more!

Start my KDCS group in MM6 with grayface 2.1v and hd textures, looks so sick. Nice to be back in to a 3D for awhile LOL

What? You're not up for Swords of Xeen?

 

[calgary.alberta]

What? You're not up for Swords of Xeen?

No, I had enough fo the MM3 engine and gameplay. I'm ready to move on, I study a bit about Swords of Xeen. Between the bugs, balance issues don't seem worth it maybe at a later point.

 

[T. Reich]

Completely cleared every location once (except that corner in VARN with about 50 or so Genies, totally forgot about that).
Magic OP, magic fun. Especially Rock Blast, because it lets you cheat around corners. Used blasters in the Hive for easy fun time.
Got all of my promotions just before going into Control Centre. It felt like it's not of a great importance to get any character promotions in MM6 - sure, they give you extra life and mana, but they mostly don't gate skill promotions, which is a major thing in MM7-8, where promotions mean so much more.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Now that I'm back in this rainy godforsaken country I call home, I've decided to go back to MM, more specifically MM2. Played the first one a long time ago and my memory of the specifics is hazy. I've a few n00b questions:
Accuracy doesn't affect spells, right? I'm fairly sure they didn't in 1, but again, it's been a while. I'd ask about Luck too, but the description in the manual identifies it as just good old-fashioned nebulous bullshit, which is fun.
Is bribing worthwhile? The manual says that bribing monsters may result in valuable information, but I'd rather avoid it if possible.
Hirelings -- do you use them? I'm expecting to get a feel for this stuff as I get going, but I'm just curious, because it sounds like an interesting dynamic of party composition.
Tips for party composition are also welcome, as is anything else you think I should know.

 

[octavius]

Accuracy shouldn't affect spells.

Bribing can be worthwhile to avoid fights with "good" creatures, to avoid alignment shifts. Unfortunately there is no in-game way of detecting their alignment.
I think Centaurs are considered "good", but in HoMM 1 and 2 they were part of the evil Warlock fation...

Yes, Hirelings are useful. There are 8 classes, but only 6 player characters. And since there are quests and areas restricted to class, it makes sense to have all classes represented.

The pregens are a good party.
They are just a number of stats anyway without personality, so it's like you (or me at least) "bond" with them.
But optimally you should play MM1 and import the winning party. The beginning of MM2 is truly brutal for lvl 1 characters.

 

[Dorateen]

There's a fairly wide selection of hirelings, you will find them spread throughout the gameworld. One thing you can do, after you have visited each of the towns where they are stationed, is go and collect them all and bring them to one centralized inn like Middlegate.

Keep an eye on the cost of gold per day salary of these moochers. It will go up as you train them and they reach higher levels.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Bribing can be worthwhile to avoid fights with "good" creatures, to avoid alignment shifts. Unfortunately there is no in-game way of detecting their alignment.
I think Centaurs are considered "good", but in HoMM 1 and 2 they were part of the evil Warlock fation...

I'm guessing alignment is important because there are alignment-specific dungeons and/or quests? In that case, should I make my entire party good/evil? The thing I don't like about bribing is that if this is anything like other old-school games, I'll have no indication of the amount of gold/food/gems required for monsters to accept the bribe.

Yes, Hirelings are useful. There are 8 classes, but only 6 player characters. And since there are quests and areas restricted to class, it makes sense to have all classes represented.

Yes, I see that there are 8 positions and 8 classes, so it'll be the usual 6+2. I was curious if you'd ever use more than 2 hirelings at a time, because the manual suggests that that could be useful.

The pregens are a good party.
They are just a number of stats anyway without personality, so it's like you (or me at least) "bond" with them.

Pregens are absolutely haram.

But optimally you should play MM1 and import the winning party. The beginning of MM2 is truly brutal for lvl 1 characters.

I suppose I should. I'm worried, though, that I'll burn out on MM by the time I reach this, as happened to me recently with Wizardry 6-7. If only I had my old save files...

 

[octavius]

Alignment is also important because if your Cleric slips the Turn Undead spell will no longer work.
I would have a mix of alignments in the party, since the best items (+8 and better) are alignment restricted.

You can have up to 7 hirelings at a time. Useful for some of the Class Quests.
Robbers don't have their own quests, but can accompany the others. So you could have two PCs on a Class Quest and the rest hirelings, for example.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Decided to go with MM1 after all, so all this advice is now useless. Sorry
Who makes the better frontliner of robber, cleric and archer?

 

[octavius]

Depends on their HP and equipment (AC, and do they do more damage with melee or missiles weapons?).
An Archer will always be able to use his bow, no matter if he's in the front or rear.
So if you want Cleric and Robber to use missile weapons, push Archer forward.