Might and Magic The Might and Magic Discussion Thread

[Grauken]

Just tried WoX with SC-55 and damn does it sound great, lots of extra sounds you don't hear when using other sound choices, not even MT-32

Is there a software to download to use this setting?
Last time i played it i used MT-32 and i was disappointed by the result.

There's a SC-55 official plugin that seems to provide great results. No idea how close to the original it is, since I have never owned original hardware, but WoX with that plugin sounds better than using Munt IMHO.

If you want to set it up, I just followed this guide and it worked fine.

 

[newtmonkey]

Sound Canvas VA sounds basically the same as the original hardware so should sound fine. Between MUNT and Virtual SC, there's really no need to go out and buy Roland synths anymore unless you are a fanatic (like me) or are playing on original hardware.

I've configured MM4 for both MT-32 and SC-55, and can't really decide which I prefer. I feel the MT-32 soundtrack is overall balanced better. The SC-55 soundtrack does have better instruments chosen for some tracks compared with the MT-32 (though not always)—I much prefer the intro music, for instance, on SC-55 which has much better sounding drums and horns.

Here's one example (from MM5 tho) where I much prefer the MT-32 over the SC-55 version (which I feel suffers from poor instrument choices):

MT-32:


SC-55:


There is evidence suggesting that the Xeen games were actually composed on an MT-32 and enhanced for the CM series synths, and then converted by someone (other than the original composer) at New World Computing to SC-55/General MIDI:

https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26745&hilit=xeen+mt+mt32+mt-32+32&start=60
See the post toward the bottom by Lord Skylark if interested.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

So in M&M6, are light and dark magic schools related in any way to your party alignment?

 

[octavius]

IIRC you need to be of the right alignment to qualify for higher training.

 

[Storyfag]

Master Light requires Saintly reputation, Master Dark the opposite. Lesser skill proficiencies have no requirements.

 

[Ysaye]

So in M&M6, are light and dark magic schools related in any way to your party alignment?

As above but note that after you get the mastery you can do what you like with your reputation. It is also worth noting it is far more difficult to get saintly reputation (you probably want to hire a bard or two) and really only the major quests can boost this plus donating money to non-Baa churches can raise it (the Church donations have a cap on the improvement as well) so you should do this first. Notorious reputation is easy to achieve by just killing peasants or donating money to a temple of Baa. There is even one mandatory bit which will cause your reputation to sink considerably as well.

 

[Darth Canoli]

There's a SC-55 official plugin that seems to provide great results. No idea how close to the original it is, since I have never owned original hardware, but WoX with that plugin sounds better than using Munt IMHO.

If you want to set it up, I just followed this guide and it worked fine.

Sound Canvas VA sounds basically the same as the original hardware so should sound fine. Between MUNT and Virtual SC, there's really no need to go out and buy Roland synths anymore unless you are a fanatic (like me) or are playing on original hardware.

I've configured MM4 for both MT-32 and SC-55, and can't really decide which I prefer. I feel the MT-32 soundtrack is overall balanced better. The SC-55 soundtrack does have better instruments chosen for some tracks compared with the MT-32 (though not always)—I much prefer the intro music, for instance, on SC-55 which has much better sounding drums and horns.

Here's one example (from MM5 tho) where I much prefer the MT-32 over the SC-55 version (which I feel suffers from poor instrument choices):

Aren't these configs only going to change how the music sound and fuck up some sound effects?
That's my experience with the MT-32 config.
Non MT-32 --> close combat hits = very high pitch metallic sound (tried some recommended settings from GOG forum)
MT-32 --> fixed it but arrows impacts = very high pitched metallic sound

I'm mostly searching for a perfect SE config, if the music sounds alright too, it's a plus.
Any insight on how to make it happen?

 

[Grauken]

I'm not too sure what you're exactly asking for?

 

[Darth Canoli]

A way to play the game without any weird sound effect (weird high pitch metallic sound, phone ringing for doors even if i managed to never get this one with recommended dosbox settings), it's really annoying in the long run.

 

[Grauken]

A way to play the game without any weird sound effect (weird high pitch metallic sound, phone ringing for doors even if i managed to never get this one with recommended dosbox settings), it's really annoying in the long run.

That's the problem, there's no one solutions that works for all Dos games, depending on which time frame a Dos game is from, and even depending for how the soundtrack was produced, different options sound better. That said, if you don't want to have too much hassle, then often the SoundBlaster 16 is the best choice (except in cases where it isn't).

 

[Darth Canoli]

I tried multiple versions of the SB settings already, as i absolutely don't know anything about the dosbox settings (cycles and the likes) i mostly try settings i find here and there, none worked perfectly so far.

I'd settle for one getting all the combat + walking SE right but i could never achieve this so far.

 

[Grauken]

I tried multiple versions of the SB settings already, as i absolutely don't know anything about the dosbox settings (cycles and the likes) i mostly try settings i find here and there, none worked perfectly so far.

I'd settle for one getting all the combat + walking SE right but i could never achieve this so far.

If we're talking WoX specifically, to me the SC-55 sounds great and gets all the sound effects right

 

[Darth Canoli]

If we're talking WoX specifically, to me the SC-55 sounds great and gets all the sound effects right

I'll have to try that then.

Just in case, would you be so kind to upload your config file if you still have it and give me the link here of through PM?

 

[newtmonkey]

Darth Canoli

If all you care about is sound effects, use the default settings for dosbox, whatever you use to get the game working. You need to run the install program for WoX (INSTALL.EXE) within dosbox and make sure "sound blaster" is selected and configured correctly.

You should forget about SC-55 and MT-32 for now, these require separate hardware or emulators to work correctly. Try to get WoX working properly with Sound Blaster music and sound effects first, and then if you want the improved music you will need to install a separate emulator—either MUNT (free) for MT-32 or Sound Canvas VA (costs $$) for SC-55.

 

[newtmonkey]

Here's an interesting update on the MIDI synth that should be used to experience the M&M IV/V soundtracks as intended by the composer:

https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26745&page=4&per_page=20

In short, a guy in contact with the composer has confirmed that the soundtrack was written on a Roland CM-32L (i.e. an MT-32 with extra sound effect instruments)—EXCEPT for the main themes of both games, which were composed on an SC-55.

 

[Darth Canoli]

With the second confinement here, i'm going to test it before the end of the year, thanks for the information.

 

[newtmonkey]

Darth Canoli
Post if you have any problems! You'd need MUNT emulator with the CM-32L roms to start.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Post if you have any problems! You'd need MUNT emulator with the CM-32L roms to start.

I'll have to check later but i think i already have them, given i used MUNT to play it one year ago or something.

Couple of years back, i still had a soundblaster 32, i'm sure it'd have been way smoother if i still had it...

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

So a question: is fire like the most resisted spell school in M&M6 or what? My mage is specializing in fire/dark, and every powerful enemy takes like 10% fire damage until you cast 4-5 spells at them, at which point the damage starts going up. It can't be RNG every time. Seems like Dark Magic for example generally gets resisted much less.

The problem with dark magic though, is there is no good in between spells. Dragon Breath is good for distance aoe (like fireball), and Shrapmetal is good vs large enemies, but for smaller enemies in your face, nothing to use. Finger of Death never seems to work.

 

[Pope Amole II]

That's just an illusion - resists are very random in these games with rolls swinging wildly. A resist of 40 (something that is common enough around first-tier high-level monster) means that you have:
~58% chance to deal full damage.
~24% chance to deal half damage.
~10% chance to deal quarter damage.
~5% chance to deal one eighth damage.
~3% chance to deal one sixteenth damage.

I've done the math really roughly but you get the general notion.

Most dangerous monsters have very similar resists to both fire and physical - there's no dark element in VI so shrapmetal actually does phys. damage.

And the actual most resisted element is Magical damage - it's not even resisted, lots of things are simply immune to it.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Hhmm. I found my first ring of fire magic, that thing really upped my fire damage nicely. I think I ll stick with Fire/Dark combo, Fire for most things, Dark for those that resist fire. Fire is a lot more efficient in terms of mana usage while still dealing high damage compared to water/air/earth, Dark just drains it in 2-3 casts.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

So I got 2 things to say about M&M6:

1. This game is insanely huge and long.
2. At some point, the point above stops being a plus.

I don't know where it happened exactly, maybe at Alamos, or around Blackshire/Kriegspire, but definitely by Dragonsands - the game is just not fun anymore but a soul crushing grind. It was somewhat grindy from the start, I guess all blobbers are like that to some degree, but it was manageable, but fuck, at Dragonsands, the endless fucking dragons, 20 dragons every step you take, and they are such bullet sponges, and most of the time your spells barely do any damage, not to mention my physical damage guys (Knight and Archer), they don't do any damage at all anymore. I kinda stopped clearing shit out, and just try to fly by it now, but obviously that's not always possible, especially in the dungeons.

Fuck, the Tomb of Varn, like a fucking city underground, except barely anything interesting, just room after room after room of hundreds of shit to kill. I also had to look up a hint or two for it, cause I missed one chest in the labyrinth tunnels, and would rather off myself than run around that place randomly looking for shit.

Will still try to finish, but the fun ended a while ago.

 

[Pope Amole II]

Eh, checked out my last year's solo let's play and killing everything that moves in any of those locations took 30-40 minutes at the very most. Git gud.

On a more serious note - the only way these games are enjoyable (especially VI) is by power-playing the hell out of them. If you power-play and use grayface patch with that x2 speed and some cheat engine speed on top of them, they can easily be 25-30 hour games. If not - sure, they're a mind-numbing slog.


BTW, doing a solo Vampire run atm. Ordered a nice thumbnail for it:

Spoiler

 

[Ysaye]

So I got 2 things to say about M&M6:

1. This game is insanely huge and long.
2. At some point, the point above stops being a plus.

I don't know where it happened exactly, maybe at Alamos, or around Blackshire/Kriegspire, but definitely by Dragonsands - the game is just not fun anymore but a soul crushing grind. It was somewhat grindy from the start, I guess all blobbers are like that to some degree, but it was manageable, but fuck, at Dragonsands, the endless fucking dragons, 20 dragons every step you take, and they are such bullet sponges, and most of the time your spells barely do any damage, not to mention my physical damage guys (Knight and Archer), they don't do any damage at all anymore. I kinda stopped clearing shit out, and just try to fly by it now, but obviously that's not always possible, especially in the dungeons.

Fuck, the Tomb of Varn, like a fucking city underground, except barely anything interesting, just room after room after room of hundreds of shit to kill. I also had to look up a hint or two for it, cause I missed one chest in the labyrinth tunnels, and would rather off myself than run around that place randomly looking for shit.

Will still try to finish, but the fun ended a while ago.

Yes - most people will agree with you; interestingly that interview done with Tim Lang the creator recently indicated that he preferred M&M7 because it is tighter and less mammoth in size. Just wait till you get "ancient weapons" though!

I am not a big advocate for respeccing builds, but it quickly becomes obvious late game that magic is going to totally outdo anything a physical class can do and it is frustrating (if you are not following a guide) that there is no mechanism to fix this up. Playing this again with the value of hindsight (particular with the permanent stat-buffing shrines, ultimate permanent stat buffing potions and other periodic features that help) and planning a mage focussed party (with specialists in particular areas rather than too much unnecessary splitting across spell schools) much of say Blackshire and Kriegspire is quite a lot less tortuous.

 

[octavius]

So I got 2 things to say about M&M6:

1. This game is insanely huge and long.
2. At some point, the point above stops being a plus.

Will still try to finish, but the fun ended a while ago.

Come on, even J_C completed it eventually.

But to fair, I didn't have the stamina to complete it the first time myself.