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Might and Magic The Might and Magic Discussion Thread

What is the best Might & Magic game in the series?

  • Might and Magic: Book I

    Votes: 17 2.3%
  • Might and Magic II: Gates to Another World

    Votes: 29 3.9%
  • Might and Magic III: Isles of Terra

    Votes: 59 7.9%
  • Might and Magic: World of Xeen

    Votes: 183 24.5%
  • Might and Magic: Swords of Xeen

    Votes: 5 0.7%
  • Might and Magic VI: The Mandate of Heaven

    Votes: 215 28.7%
  • Might and Magic VII: For Blood and Honor

    Votes: 130 17.4%
  • Might and Magic VIII: Day of the Destroyer

    Votes: 26 3.5%
  • Might and Magic IX

    Votes: 11 1.5%
  • Might and Magic X

    Votes: 73 9.8%

  • Total voters
    748

Grauken

Arcane
Joined
Mar 22, 2013
Messages
13,335
A way to play the game without any weird sound effect (weird high pitch metallic sound, phone ringing for doors even if i managed to never get this one with recommended dosbox settings), it's really annoying in the long run.

That's the problem, there's no one solutions that works for all Dos games, depending on which time frame a Dos game is from, and even depending for how the soundtrack was produced, different options sound better. That said, if you don't want to have too much hassle, then often the SoundBlaster 16 is the best choice (except in cases where it isn't).
 

Darth Canoli

Arcane
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Messages
5,741
Location
Perched on a tree
I tried multiple versions of the SB settings already, as i absolutely don't know anything about the dosbox settings (cycles and the likes) i mostly try settings i find here and there, none worked perfectly so far.

I'd settle for one getting all the combat + walking SE right but i could never achieve this so far.
 

Grauken

Arcane
Joined
Mar 22, 2013
Messages
13,335
I tried multiple versions of the SB settings already, as i absolutely don't know anything about the dosbox settings (cycles and the likes) i mostly try settings i find here and there, none worked perfectly so far.

I'd settle for one getting all the combat + walking SE right but i could never achieve this so far.

If we're talking WoX specifically, to me the SC-55 sounds great and gets all the sound effects right
 

newtmonkey

Arcane
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
1,386
Location
Goblin Lair
Darth Canoli

If all you care about is sound effects, use the default settings for dosbox, whatever you use to get the game working. You need to run the install program for WoX (INSTALL.EXE) within dosbox and make sure "sound blaster" is selected and configured correctly.

You should forget about SC-55 and MT-32 for now, these require separate hardware or emulators to work correctly. Try to get WoX working properly with Sound Blaster music and sound effects first, and then if you want the improved music you will need to install a separate emulator—either MUNT (free) for MT-32 or Sound Canvas VA (costs $$) for SC-55.
 

newtmonkey

Arcane
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
1,386
Location
Goblin Lair
Here's an interesting update on the MIDI synth that should be used to experience the M&M IV/V soundtracks as intended by the composer:

https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26745&page=4&per_page=20

In short, a guy in contact with the composer has confirmed that the soundtrack was written on a Roland CM-32L (i.e. an MT-32 with extra sound effect instruments)—EXCEPT for the main themes of both games, which were composed on an SC-55.
 

Darth Canoli

Arcane
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Messages
5,741
Location
Perched on a tree
Post if you have any problems! You'd need MUNT emulator with the CM-32L roms to start.

I'll have to check later but i think i already have them, given i used MUNT to play it one year ago or something.

Couple of years back, i still had a soundblaster 32, i'm sure it'd have been way smoother if i still had it...
 
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
5,415
So a question: is fire like the most resisted spell school in M&M6 or what? My mage is specializing in fire/dark, and every powerful enemy takes like 10% fire damage until you cast 4-5 spells at them, at which point the damage starts going up. It can't be RNG every time. Seems like Dark Magic for example generally gets resisted much less.

The problem with dark magic though, is there is no good in between spells. Dragon Breath is good for distance aoe (like fireball), and Shrapmetal is good vs large enemies, but for smaller enemies in your face, nothing to use. Finger of Death never seems to work.
 

Pope Amole II

Nerd Commando Game Studios
Developer
Joined
Mar 1, 2012
Messages
2,052
That's just an illusion - resists are very random in these games with rolls swinging wildly. A resist of 40 (something that is common enough around first-tier high-level monster) means that you have:
~58% chance to deal full damage.
~24% chance to deal half damage.
~10% chance to deal quarter damage.
~5% chance to deal one eighth damage.
~3% chance to deal one sixteenth damage.

I've done the math really roughly but you get the general notion.

Most dangerous monsters have very similar resists to both fire and physical - there's no dark element in VI so shrapmetal actually does phys. damage.

And the actual most resisted element is Magical damage - it's not even resisted, lots of things are simply immune to it.
 
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
5,415
Hhmm. I found my first ring of fire magic, that thing really upped my fire damage nicely. I think I ll stick with Fire/Dark combo, Fire for most things, Dark for those that resist fire. Fire is a lot more efficient in terms of mana usage while still dealing high damage compared to water/air/earth, Dark just drains it in 2-3 casts.
 
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
5,415
So I got 2 things to say about M&M6:

1. This game is insanely huge and long.
2. At some point, the point above stops being a plus.

I don't know where it happened exactly, maybe at Alamos, or around Blackshire/Kriegspire, but definitely by Dragonsands - the game is just not fun anymore but a soul crushing grind. It was somewhat grindy from the start, I guess all blobbers are like that to some degree, but it was manageable, but fuck, at Dragonsands, the endless fucking dragons, 20 dragons every step you take, and they are such bullet sponges, and most of the time your spells barely do any damage, not to mention my physical damage guys (Knight and Archer), they don't do any damage at all anymore. I kinda stopped clearing shit out, and just try to fly by it now, but obviously that's not always possible, especially in the dungeons.

Fuck, the Tomb of Varn, like a fucking city underground, except barely anything interesting, just room after room after room of hundreds of shit to kill. I also had to look up a hint or two for it, cause I missed one chest in the labyrinth tunnels, and would rather off myself than run around that place randomly looking for shit.

Will still try to finish, but the fun ended a while ago. :(
 

Pope Amole II

Nerd Commando Game Studios
Developer
Joined
Mar 1, 2012
Messages
2,052
Eh, checked out my last year's solo let's play and killing everything that moves in any of those locations took 30-40 minutes at the very most. Git gud.

On a more serious note - the only way these games are enjoyable (especially VI) is by power-playing the hell out of them. If you power-play and use grayface patch with that x2 speed and some cheat engine speed on top of them, they can easily be 25-30 hour games. If not - sure, they're a mind-numbing slog.


BTW, doing a solo Vampire run atm. Ordered a nice thumbnail for it:
mDVk_LYlnAc.jpg
 

Ysaye

Arbiter
Joined
May 27, 2018
Messages
794
Location
Australia
So I got 2 things to say about M&M6:

1. This game is insanely huge and long.
2. At some point, the point above stops being a plus.

I don't know where it happened exactly, maybe at Alamos, or around Blackshire/Kriegspire, but definitely by Dragonsands - the game is just not fun anymore but a soul crushing grind. It was somewhat grindy from the start, I guess all blobbers are like that to some degree, but it was manageable, but fuck, at Dragonsands, the endless fucking dragons, 20 dragons every step you take, and they are such bullet sponges, and most of the time your spells barely do any damage, not to mention my physical damage guys (Knight and Archer), they don't do any damage at all anymore. I kinda stopped clearing shit out, and just try to fly by it now, but obviously that's not always possible, especially in the dungeons.

Fuck, the Tomb of Varn, like a fucking city underground, except barely anything interesting, just room after room after room of hundreds of shit to kill. I also had to look up a hint or two for it, cause I missed one chest in the labyrinth tunnels, and would rather off myself than run around that place randomly looking for shit.

Will still try to finish, but the fun ended a while ago. :(

Yes - most people will agree with you; interestingly that interview done with Tim Lang the creator recently indicated that he preferred M&M7 because it is tighter and less mammoth in size. Just wait till you get "ancient weapons" though! :P

I am not a big advocate for respeccing builds, but it quickly becomes obvious late game that magic is going to totally outdo anything a physical class can do and it is frustrating (if you are not following a guide) that there is no mechanism to fix this up. Playing this again with the value of hindsight (particular with the permanent stat-buffing shrines, ultimate permanent stat buffing potions and other periodic features that help) and planning a mage focussed party (with specialists in particular areas rather than too much unnecessary splitting across spell schools) much of say Blackshire and Kriegspire is quite a lot less tortuous.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,614
Location
Bulgaria
If not - sure, they're a mind-numbing slog.
Not really,you are just a speedrunning retard :smug:.
That said i don't need speed hacks to 100% in 20-30ish hours. The game is pretty easy once you get the mechanics. If you use ENTER,yeah it will be slog,after all everything TB ends up being a slog.

So I got 2 things to say about M&M6:

1. This game is insanely huge and long.
2. At some point, the point above stops being a plus.

Will still try to finish, but the fun ended a while ago. :(

Come on, even J_C completed it eventually.

But to fair, I didn't have the stamina to complete it the first time myself.


If you don't have the stamina to finish,then you just don't like the game,just move on and don't pretend other wise. I personally can never have enough of MM games,never got bored by them and would prefer for the game to have 100 more hours of content :smug:.
 

Pope Amole II

Nerd Commando Game Studios
Developer
Joined
Mar 1, 2012
Messages
2,052
I am not a big advocate for respeccing builds, but it quickly becomes obvious late game that magic is going to totally outdo anything a physical class can do and it is frustrating

That's not true. Physical classes have three advantages over magical ones:

1. They act faster. Melee attacks, one way or another, get down to minimal 30 recovery time. With grayface patches that's spear & sword combo. Without them, that's just two handed axes, eventually turning into ax & dagger combo - somewhat worse but still efficient. Spells, on the other hand, range from 80 to 90. Efficient spells, that is - there are lots of duds with 120-140 recovery range. So you can say that for every single cast your fighter is doing three strikes. And, as most good spells are point-blank range, it's not like they have much of a distance advantage.

2. Vampiric weapons are broken, period. They drain 20% of everything that they do and, if you dual them, this one increases to 40%. There's a point of time in each game when even a solo character can hold down attack button in real-time and that's gonna be enough to win the fight as no one will overtake him. Well, solo-melee is not really doable in VI but not due to the lack of damage - unescapeable insta-death really ruins its day.

3. They don't need mana, duh.


The thing is, from my observations, people don't understand how to optimize melee parties. In VI, it goes like this:

1. The party is either Knight-Knight-Sorcerer-Cleric or Knight-Knight-Paladin-Sorcerer. Knight-Archer-Paladin-Sorcerer may work if you don't wish for repeats. Whatever the choice, you dedicate one Light caster as your main engine and dump all the spare skill points into him - all the horseshoes and all the kriegspire well exp.

2. Don't be greedy with teacher-instructor-banker shit in the early game - simple healers are your best friends. You have a large health pool and replenishing it once per day means a lot in the early game.

3. Don't spread your points thin - if your light caster is wizard, it's something like air 7, water 12, dark 10, everything else into light magic. If it's a cleric, it's even simpler - dark 10 and everything into light magic. You wanna reach 30-40 light magic asap. Likewise, your knights should prioritize weapon skills. +1 damage per skill increase may not sound as much, but that'll eventually turn into +30 and that's a bit of a breaking point. For knights, bodybuilding of at least 15 is also adviseable.

4. Remember that artifact rings of magic stack with the common ones multiplicatively. So double-ringed 30 skill Hour of Power is +72 attack and damage for everyone.

5. Once your party is equipped with vampiric duals, Shared Life becomes the best healing spell. Due to bodybuilding, your knights will be overwhelmingly fat. This just shaves some of that off their sides and waxes the entire party.

Here are the examples from my old playthrough:

melWWbJyMJM.jpg

_S4Fop_HxcY.jpg
 

jungl

Augur
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
1,487
The worlds not really huge its all the back tracking that is too time consuming. It would be interesting if 3D0 somehow compressed the game in n64 cartdige back in the day and tapped into a much bigger market possibly not going bankrupt.

https://youtu.be/BaX5YUZ5FLk
 

Morpheus Kitami

Liturgist
Joined
May 14, 2020
Messages
2,713
Except that during the N64-era they had a competing console...technically. Plus they did put MM8 on the PS2, but made it Japan-only for reasons. Weren't there a couple of console MM games that technically sold the most out of the series? I don't think getting twenty more sales from the N64 would have helped them much.
 

Darth Canoli

Arcane
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Messages
5,741
Location
Perched on a tree
newtmonkey
Grauken
So, i found the holy grail!

It's called DOSBox-X

I installed it, then launched the gog installer for the M&M pack, directed the Dosbox directory to Dosbox-x one and voilà! (well, i had to rename the dosbox-x exe: "dosbox" so the installer would recognize it)

Close combat hits and arrows SE are just fine, and the music sounds good too (it uses Munt).
Footsteps are a bit weird but nothing too offensive.
There's Mac, linux and win 32 and 64 versions so that's how everyone should play the M&M 3-5 trilogy (and swords).
 

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