Might and Magic The Might and Magic Discussion Thread

[Luzur]

Playing MM2 again, and this time I've noticed some differences between the DOS and Amiga versions.
I played through Middlegate and its dungeon many times back in my Amiga days, and I remember the three square building south of the Magic Guild always held 3 Men-At-Arms and IIRC the two other squares were empty. In the DOS version all three square have random, level scaled (at least the amount) enemies.
Similarly in the secret room at the back of the tavern would have some Acidic Blobs (really nasty for a lvl 1 party), but in the DOS version it's random.

So why would the Amiga version be different?
The DOS version I'm using is the abandonware one.

Dunno but i guess memory limitations?

 

[octavius]

Playing MM2 again, and this time I've noticed some differences between the DOS and Amiga versions.
I played through Middlegate and its dungeon many times back in my Amiga days, and I remember the three square building south of the Magic Guild always held 3 Men-At-Arms and IIRC the two other squares were empty. In the DOS version all three square have random, level scaled (at least the amount) enemies.
Similarly in the secret room at the back of the tavern would have some Acidic Blobs (really nasty for a lvl 1 party), but in the DOS version it's random.

So why would the Amiga version be different?
The DOS version I'm using is the abandonware one.

Dunno but i guess memory limitations?

Thinking more about it, I remember a bit similar difference between the Amiga and DOS versions of Civilization.
In the Amiga version the same parameters (starting civ, map size and such) would always yield the same map, while the DOS version was truly (in practice at least) random.

Anyways, my guys are now lvl 13, have won about 450 fights, and I've become rather disgusted by the level scaling, which is worse than I remembered it to be.
Except for some fixed encounters and arena fights, the only enemies I've had to use Time Distort to get away from are Demon Soldiers, which are not only very tough individually, but there's usually 20-25 of them, and they can also use archery. So they have replaced the Crazed Native as my MM2 arch enemies, at least for the time being.
By playing carefully, and not explored Forests and Mountains yet, I have avoided any party deaths thus far.

 

[Desiderius]

I've played 6-8 (and maybe 9, don't remember) and picked up the rest on a GoG sale at some point. Tried 1 I think and couldn't really figure out what was going on (similar to Gold Box these days regrettably).

Should I do III next or IV (or IX/X)?

 

[Butter]

I've played 6-8 (and maybe 9, don't remember) and picked up the rest on a GoG sale at some point. Tried 1 I think and couldn't really figure out what was going on (similar to Gold Box these days regrettably).

Should I do III next or IV (or IX/X)?

Depends how long an adventure you want. There's no reason to play only IV, so you'd be committing yourself to the much longer World of Xeen. I think III is hour-for-hour a better game, but there's something to be said for the epic quality of WoX.

 

[octavius]

III. It's better than World of Xeen IMO, but is just as user friendly.

 

[Desiderius]

The better question is III-V or just hop in at IV.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

III. It's better than World of Xeen IMO, but is just as user friendly.

Not quite. The mapping in WoX has some nice QoL improvements which can make going from WoX to Isles of Terra a little trying.

But regardless, your question seems to be is III worth playing, and the answer is a resounding yes. It's a very good game (I would rank the "WoX engine" trilogy V>III>IV). It also has the added benefit of telling you whether or not you will enjoy the massive adventure of WoX; if you don't like Isles of Terra, you definitely will not enjoy WoX.

 

[fantadomat]

The only part of the old MM games that hasn't aged well is the inventory/itemazation. It is the only thing that puts me off from replaying them more frequently.

 

[Eisen]

I hope someday, someone make a MM4-5 open source remake with QOL fixes

 

[octavius]

I hope someone will make MM1 and MM2 remakes that have no level scaling, only area scaling.

Actually if you know how you can probably hex edit the games, since at least some of the areas are area scaled.

 

[Blake00]

I've only played MM3-8 back in the 2000s. I tried to start at MM1 & 2 on PC but despite being a retro gamer they were just a bit tooooo old for my liking so I started at MM3 and absolutely loved it, MM4 & 5 combined into World of Xeen was also brilliant (picked up a nice World of Xeen boxset in good condition the other day too). So yeah while the first 2 might be hard to get into I think you're really missing out if you skip 3-5 and start in the 3D era at MM6. So start at MM1 if you can but if you find it too old then start at MM3 haha.

It does annoy me that I haven't played 1-2 so at some point when I do replay the series I'm thinking I'll go play the console versions of 1-2 as they look quite nice. The NES version of MM1 appears to be the nicer looking one (albeit still lacking colour), while the SNES version of MM2 appears to win that one too. Then play 3 onwards on PC as usual.

I've never played MM9 as I was disappointed in the changes it made but I've seen over the years there's a good fan patch for it that might make the experience less painful lol. In fact over the years I've seen some interesting fan patches for MM6-8 as well which I'll have to check out too (do they allow modern resolutions? as I'd love that).

MM10 from ubisoft looks pretty cool and back to MM3-5 kinda of gameplay but with more modern graphics so that should be interesting, although I hear it's a bit on the short side.

Ahhh.. one day.. one day lol..

 

[Darth Canoli]

The only part of the old MM games that hasn't aged well is the inventory/itemazation. It is the only thing that puts me off from replaying them more frequently.

The sound effects definitely aged, you get used to the inventory management (not the lack of space through), SE were the only thing preventing me from completing a replay and i've tried a lot before i found dosbox-x.

I agree about III being the best game, by far, even with WoX huge world appeal, WoX is only for those loving III so much they can't get enough of its worse moments (red dwarf mines from IV, dozens of small mines from V)
Also, i don't have anything against V art style but the color palette is something else.

Quality-wise, there's a couple of locations and quests i would take from IV and V to make Isles of Terra the best blobber ever created.

 

[fantadomat]

I've never played MM9

MM10 from ubisoft looks pretty cool

MM9 is better than MM10. It just lacks something that the old ones had,it is very tight design that doesn't let for player's freedom,it doesn't have any optional areas and fights since you need all the exp and weapons you can find,you never outpace your enemy or being able to grind. Generally it lacks the freedom of older MMs.

 

[fantadomat]

The only part of the old MM games that hasn't aged well is the inventory/itemazation. It is the only thing that puts me off from replaying them more frequently.

The sound effects definitely aged, you get used to the inventory management (not the lack of space through), SE were the only thing preventing me from completing a replay and i've tried a lot before i found dosbox-x.

Did you play the GoG version,for me it runs fine and the SF are ok. You could always just mute the game listen to some podcast or creepy monster encounter stories like me .

As for the INV,yeah you could get used to it,but so you could get used to mostly anything,doesn't make it good.Items getting destroyed if you have too much in INV,not being able to see the stats of them and having to learn the meaning of all the magic and material stats,the constant breaking of shit and the high price of fixing it,etc etc. MM6 was a clear incline in a lot of aspects. A remake of the older ones in a MM6 engine will be glorious thing to play. All that said,i still replay them once a few years,still very good games that hold up.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Did you play the GoG version,for me it runs fine and the SF are ok. You could always just mute the game listen to some podcast or creepy monster encounter stories like me .

As for the INV,yeah you could get used to it,but so you could get used to mostly anything,doesn't make it good.Items getting destroyed if you have too much in INV,not being able to see the stats of them and having to learn the meaning of all the magic and material stats,the constant breaking of shit and the high price of fixing it,etc etc. MM6 was a clear incline in a lot of aspects. A remake of the older ones in a MM6 engine will be glorious thing to play. All that said,i still replay them once a few years,still very good games that hold up.

I don't mind switching the music off but playing without SE is just sad.
Dosbox-x fixes this though.

M&M VI engine is good but early Might & Magic exploration is something else, you don't see farther than a couple of tiles (4? 5?) and with all the mountains and woods, sometimes, you can't see more than 1/2 tiles away, it makes exploration way more tense and interesting, a bit like in Arx Fatalis where a monster can surprise you every corner and where growls makes you feel like you're being hunted.

 

[fantadomat]

Did you play the GoG version,for me it runs fine and the SF are ok. You could always just mute the game listen to some podcast or creepy monster encounter stories like me .

As for the INV,yeah you could get used to it,but so you could get used to mostly anything,doesn't make it good.Items getting destroyed if you have too much in INV,not being able to see the stats of them and having to learn the meaning of all the magic and material stats,the constant breaking of shit and the high price of fixing it,etc etc. MM6 was a clear incline in a lot of aspects. A remake of the older ones in a MM6 engine will be glorious thing to play. All that said,i still replay them once a few years,still very good games that hold up.

I don't mind switching the music off but playing without SE is just sad.
Dosbox-x fixes this though.

M&M VI engine is good but early Might & Magic exploration is something else, you don't see farther than a couple of tiles (4? 5?) and with all the mountains and woods, sometimes, you can't see more than 1/2 tiles away, it makes exploration way more tense and interesting, a bit like in Arx Fatalis where a monster can surprise you every corner and where growls makes you feel like you're being hunted.

Yeah,they are good games as they are....i just want to play more MM6 like games .

That said the not seeing far makes the archery kind off weak,while the meta in MM6-9 was pretty much archery.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

MM9 paper dolls are an insult to the franchise. The game is not as bad as often advertised though.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

I think Darkside's art design and color palette are great. Wonderful refresher from Clouds generic fantasy style, although Clouds isn't bad at what it's trying to do, and most of the art design is a straight improvement over Isles of Terra. Although yes, Red Dwarf Mines are probably the single worst dungeon in any MM game, especially on repeat playthroughs.

And don't listen to the haters, MMX is good. I don't know that it feels very much like a MM game, but it is a good blobber.

 

[Desiderius]

I think Darkside's art design and color palette are great. Wonderful refresher from Clouds generic fantasy style, although Clouds isn't bad at what it's trying to do, and most of the art design is a straight improvement over Isles of Terra. Although yes, Red Dwarf Mines are probably the single worst dungeon in any MM game, especially on repeat playthroughs.

And don't listen to the haters, MMX is good. I don't know that it feels very much like a MM game, but it is a good blobber.

I remember being all fired up about playing the next M&M after either VII or VIII and so bought Dark Messiah.

That was... different.

 

[Sceptic]

Anyways, my guys are now lvl 13, have won about 450 fights, and I've become rather disgusted by the level scaling, which is worse than I remembered it to be.

I've made no secret of my hatred of MM2's level scaling in the past, but reading your posts I'm starting to wonder if you had misremembered how bad it was or if there really is a difference between platforms, something I had never thought of before. I think the DOS version is identical to the Apple II but the Amiga version came out after both (Apple II 1988, DOS 1989, Amiga 1990).

 

[octavius]

Anyways, my guys are now lvl 13, have won about 450 fights, and I've become rather disgusted by the level scaling, which is worse than I remembered it to be.

I've made no secret of my hatred of MM2's level scaling in the past, but reading your posts I'm starting to wonder if you had misremembered how bad it was or if there really is a difference between platforms, something I had never thought of before. I think the DOS version is identical to the Apple II but the Amiga version came out after both (Apple II 1988, DOS 1989, Amiga 1990).

There are some difference with the Amiga versions. But I only finished that once.
Last time I played it was the DOS version, but I didn't notice the level scaling so much, then. But then I didn't look for it either. Truly, ignorance is bliss...

So far it seems the only areas with real level scaling are Middlegate, Middlegate Cavern, Druid's Cave and Nomadic Rift's Cave which have an upper limit, and area E2 which has a high lower limit. Otherwise all the surface areas seem to be equally dangerous, except for the differences in fixed encounters and stuff like earthquakes and volcano eruptions. There was level scaling in MM1 too, but it was more subtle; I guess it was combined more with area scaling than in MM2.

But I'm still enjoying the game, and my guys are now lvl 15.

 

[Desiderius]

Man III is sweet. Feeling that VI/VII magic already.

 

[Haplo]

After playing WoX I could never feel the magic of M&M VI-VIII (played them all, hated the change to pseudo 3D and free form hybrid real-time action).
M&M IX was a little better (gfx were hugely improved for example, the jarring sprites were gone), if shorter, more linear and focused.

But M&M X is the best "modern" M&M game, by far. Even if it could be larger.

 

[Efe]

X is slow

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

X is slow

It undeniably plays much slower than any of III-VIII (I never actually played IX). It also has far more complex combat than any other MM games besides the first two. That's not to say X is hard (it's not), but especially in the early game you can't just mash the "A" button and roflstomp through hordes and hordes of enemies.