Might and Magic The Might and Magic Discussion Thread

[ShiningSoldier]

I have a simple question for folks who played MM9 because they liked MM6-7-8, BUT have not played any of the first five games:


WHY?

I don't like the gameplay loop of the first 5 games. It's basically just endless battles with monsters in the tile-based world. That's why I also don't like the 6 game - same hordes of monsters in boring corridors, again and again, but this time with free movement.
P.S. also thee ninth game has the best music in the series.

 

[Eisen]

The first two are two archaic for me, but i've beaten 3-5

 

[Jaesun]

The first two are two archaic for me, but i've beaten 3-5

One is also just too archaic for me (and I like old DOS games). 2 and above are all good. Very fun.

 

[Storyfag]

The portraits, however, look less goofy than MM7 and 8

MM7 and 8 weren't goofy. 6, however...

 

[newtmonkey]

Might & Magic: Book One is one the greatest games ever made. It's in my top 3 for sure, and I only first played/completed it a few years ago. The sense of exploration and adventure is unreal, it's truly nonlinear, and it's really not very difficult at all once you figure it out. The Where Are We? (https://www.eskimo.com/~edv/lockscroll/WhereAreWe/) mapping tool makes it a breeze to play if you don't want to get out the graph paper, and it also makes some good UI and QoL additions:

You can customize the layout to display less information of course, this is just what the tool looks like with everything turned on. It also works for a bunch of other games:

• Might & Magic 1-5
• Wizardry 1-5
• The Bard's Tale 1-3

 

[Cryomancer]

The first two are two archaic for me, but i've beaten 3-5

One is also just too archaic for me (and I like old DOS games). 2 and above are all good. Very fun.

Me too. I really loved M&M World of Xeen despite never completing the Darkside of Xeen. But the first ones is too "archaic" for me. I can enjoy most of 90s RPGs but very few games from 80s... The 3 I will probably play but not 2 and 1.

 

[Daemongar]

The first two are two archaic for me, but i've beaten 3-5

One is also just too archaic for me (and I like old DOS games). 2 and above are all good. Very fun.

Me too. I really loved M&M World of Xeen despite never completing the Darkside of Xeen. But the first ones is too "archaic" for me. I can enjoy most of 90s RPGs but very few games from 80s... The 3 I will probably play but not 2 and 1.

MM3 is phenomenal. It does not feel like a game from 1991. You really should try it at least once.

 

[BruceVC]

Might & Magic: Book One is one the greatest games ever made. It's in my top 3 for sure, and I only first played/completed it a few years ago. The sense of exploration and adventure is unreal, it's truly nonlinear, and it's really not very difficult at all once you figure it out. The Where Are We? (https://www.eskimo.com/~edv/lockscroll/WhereAreWe/) mapping tool makes it a breeze to play if you don't want to get out the graph paper, and it also makes some good UI and QoL additions:

You can customize the layout to display less information of course, this is just what the tool looks like with everything turned on. It also works for a bunch of other games:

• Might & Magic 1-5
• Wizardry 1-5
• The Bard's Tale 1-3

That does look very useful, its the type of tool I will use when I play M&M1

 

[Bad Sector]

After playing for a few more hours i realized the tone and writing is as goofy/hammy as ever (the LARP-ish voice acting and dialog lines help too), i guess i misunderstood the game's tone from the first impression the visuals gave me. I have barely seen a single quest that takes itself seriously so far :-P

The portraits, however, look less goofy than MM7 and 8

The portrait 3D models look very good IMO which make me wonder how the in-game models are so low-fi even for the standards of its release.

WHY?

My guess is a combination of the older games being much less accessible and not everyone liking tile-based motion. Personally the M&M games were some of the first games i tried to play with tile-based motion and couldn't get used to them - while MM3 and MM6 are the games i played the most in the series, i actually played MM6 years before MM3 because i had a hard time getting used to the instant view switch in MM3, especially when turning around.

Weirdly enough it didn't bother me as much in games like Wizardry or MM1 due to the overly abstract graphics, but when i first tried *those* games i wasn't into manual mapping at all (which is probably another reason people do not play MM1).

Nowadays i can play such games just fine but i still prefer there to be some form of a transition animation for steps (be it zooming+sliding or even better, using real 3D) as it makes easier for my brain to keep track of where i am / looking at.

 

[grimer]

the previous games also didn't have a proper skill system which made character development really basic and boring

 

[Impressive Organ]

Started MM1 with the automap mod a few days ago. I like it a lot. All the elements of the later games are there, just in a much more primitive form. I really love this whole series.

 

[UndeadHalfOrc]

I came across the box set of the japanese PC Engine version of M&M3

 

[UndeadHalfOrc]

Omg, the techno music in that version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nb_NARJXLmg

 

[Mauman]

Omg, the techno music in that version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nb_NARJXLmg

As someone who absolutely loves the classical music feel of the snes version, that is an abomination in my eyes.

 

[UndeadHalfOrc]

I'm trying to make my own balance patches foir MM3-4-5, but with my non-existent reverse-engineering skills, all I'm good at is trying to find hardcoded constants hidden in the executables. Over the years I did that with some success in older PC games as well as a few NES and SNES roms.

In MM3, I'm using Jeff Ludwig's decompressed EXE and bug fix patch (but NOT his spawn mod)
https://www.jeffludwig.com/mm3/resources.php

I was looking for the offsets for the # of levels needed to get 1 extra attacks, for all classes.

I found the offsets by looking for the values, 0x0506060708, suspecting the classes
were ordered the same way they are in the character creation screen.

offset 0x1A328
Knight Paladin Archer Cleric Sorcerer Robber Ninja Barbarian Druid Ranger
5 6 6 7 8 6 5 4 7 6


I tried the same for World of Xeen, with no success.
I used Cedric Busch' Xeen utilities to decompress the CC files.
I looked for that sequence in the executable files, in the XEEN.dat file, and in the individual files inside the decompressed DARK.CC, with no success either in finding the same sequence or even just the first few numbers, 5 6 6 7
Cedric Busch' Xeen utilities:
http://games.playazlounge.net/#UserUtilities

I will likely have to learn to use the Dosbox debugger to find the file and data offset I'm looking for.

Unless someone here more skilled than me finds them first?

 

[UndeadHalfOrc]

Some new offsets for MM3, (again for Ludmeister uncompressed version)
Metal to-hit bonuses Ruby: 0x19E03 (you can easily find the other metals from there)
Metal damage bonuses Ruby: 0x19E1A (you can easily find the other metals from there)

 

[UndeadHalfOrc]

I'm currently working on a C++ balance semi-patch/utility that halves the effectiveness of Holy Bonus, Heroism & Bless for MM3, MM4-5 and Swords of Xeen.
Spellpower = (level / 2) + 4 instead of Spellpower = level. The +4 is to not punish low level parties too much.
I might just decide the copy the entire source code in here, so get your visual studio in order

 

[Damned Registrations]

I'm currently working on a C++ balance semi-patch/utility that halves the effectiveness of Holy Bonus, Heroism & Bless for MM3, MM4-5 and Swords of Xeen.
Spellpower = (level / 2) + 4 instead of Spellpower = level. The +4 is to not punish low level parties too much.
I might just decide the copy the entire source code in here, so get your visual studio in order

Any plans for the wells? Plenty of those are egregiously overpowered, and seem to have had their numbers chosen because they're nice and even, rather than actually making any sense for where they are or their effect on the game as a whole.

 

[UndeadHalfOrc]

Nope, no idea how to do that. BUT my formula for halving levels for buffs take into account temporary level + real level.
I agree wells they are overpowered, the weakest one in MM3 gives +20 levels.

 

[ColonelMace]

Might & Magic: Book One is one the greatest games ever made.

True. Lord Alamar's quest still bugs me to this day as one of the most elegant example of how to handle narration via gameplay. This and the etched clues, the villain name reveal. JVC's very first game was already phenomenal.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I was just thinking about the wizardry games and bestiaries then I thought about the ones for Might & Magic. While fandom is tolerable and there is rpgclassics 2.0, gamefaqs snd a few loose ones there is no ULTIMATE one imho. Well, there isn't one for Bard's tale, Wizardry or a few others either. The Ultima Codex gets close to a format I kind of like in a spreadsheet sort of way. But eh..

This + This maybe. I am always interested in the art used per different versions.

Anyway, I found a few Mac references that were interesting:

Diary of Planet Stranger (use translator)

LP ARCHIVE Might & Magic Book One: (MAC)

 

[Rudra]

i picked up Might and Magic 1 through 9 courtesy of GoG. Since i've never really played a blobber before, where do I start? any recommended mods for modern QoL?

 

[octavius]

MM4 or the combined 4+5 is a good start for a noob.

 

[ColonelMace]

any recommended mods for modern QoL?

All you need is a mapping tool for the older ones. Otherwise, grid paper works fine.
I believe mouselock is also to be installed manually for MM6/7/8, it makes the UX more pleasant.

 

[behold_a_man]

Since i've never really played a blobber before, where do I start?

And what do you enjoy? JVC was one of the few people who could reinvent the series with each entry. The Secret of the Inner Sanctum had maybe the best low-level adventure of any game, grueling combat, and is one of the few games with properly implemented randomized itemization; Gates to Another World had quite insane humor; Isles of Terra had the best puzzles; World of Xeen was the prettiest and the most polished one; Mandate of Heaven had the best dungeons and the most open world (in 3D); and For Blood & Honor was the most linear and coherent of them all, with some choices having dramatic consequences.

Note that since Mandate of Heaven, the series had a pretty modern interface, and the movement became continuous (and clunky) rather than discrete.

any recommended mods for modern QoL?

All games are playable without mods. Some tool for mapping might come in handy in the first four, especially the first two (I managed to play through Isles of Terra without a mapper; it might be possible in Gates too, since you are given a rudimentary map of each area).