The New DOOM Thread (2016)

[shihonage]

It never feels like there's a lack of enemies in the room though, sure, if you look closely you might notice it but they keep the action going fast which is what truly matters. The arenas are nicely designed though, I mean I agree in that there were way too many but they had a very nice flow to them and just felt great to move around in.

Arenas violate the basic continuity and freedom of player agency in a Doom game. They also violate any sense of dread or suspense. They are a primitive crutch in order to compensate for flawed design and coding. They have no upside - at ALL, just like they didn't have an upside in retarded Doom knockoffs like Serious Sam.

 

[Carrion]

Serious Sam wasn't a Doom knockoff, it was a separate branch in the FPS tree alongside Painkiller and a few others. It was pretty much just the clueless gaming media that labelled it as an old school shooter in the vein of Doom, simply because for 2001 it was outrageously arcade compared to pretty much every other FPS at the time. The whole game was based on the concept of huge arenas where you tried to somehow control huge crowds of enemies that just kept coming at you from all directions, and there was nothing wrong with that in principle. It never pretended to be anything deeper than that, and it'd be pointless to complain about it not playing like Doom when it obviously tried to be a very different game from the start.

It becomes a whole lot different when you name your game "Doom", of course, and the concept of arenas does indeed violate some of Doom's basic principles, as well as clash with the attempts for less linear level design.

 

[BelisariuS.F]

Arenas (...) are a primitive crutch in order to compensate for flawed design and coding. They have no upside - at ALL, just like they didn't have an upside in retarded Doom knockoffs like Serious Sam.

Wow, you are REALLY determined to not understand Serious Sam, even if it's explained to you by multiple people.

 

[shihonage]

Wow, you are REALLY determined to not understand Serious Sam, even if it's explained to you by multiple people.

Remove the word "Doom" from what you quoted, and my point remains exactly the same.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Serious Sam is basically a 1st person Crimsonland with some walls added to the mix, stop being dumb.

 

[shihonage]

I was actually talking about the concept of arenas, which are present in D44M, and how they do not belong in a Doom game due to being an inherently limiting FPS design.

I'm not particularly interested in starting historical research on whether Croteam intended to create a good Doom clone and failed miserably, or whether they intended to create a series of retarded arenas and succeeded admirably.

 

[Increasing]

I could never compare Doom's design to that of Serious Sam or Painkiller. Those games always became tedious for me at some point, as did recent games that followed in their steps like Hard Reset, whereas Doom is continuously enjoyable despite of its reliance on arenas. A others have said, pacing and flow are infinitely better than in those games.

I made a Doom utility which allowed most popular DEHACKED patches to be applied simultaneously via checking boxes, and it read the screen when the game ended, and deciphered some popular Doom error messages for you.

I also allegedly hacked the DWANGO online service sometime in 1995. Their law firm sent me a cease&desist letter, but I lost it

Do you have any proof of this? It would also be nice if you could name or link some of the wads you made...

 

[BelisariuS.F]

Wow, you are REALLY determined to not understand Serious Sam, even if it's explained to you by multiple people.

Remove the word "Doom" from what you quoted, and my point remains exactly the same.

Nope.
If I had just one sentence to describe the essence of a well designed large enemy encounter in SS then it would be: a high number of decisions the player has to make in a unit of time in a constantly changing environment.
It's achieved by:
- giving the player weapons with different strengths and weaknesses;
- throwing at the player hordes of enemies (preferably from various directions) of various types that require different weapons to kill them most effectively;
- a relatively large open space (preferably with few or no obstructions and places to hide).
Those elements create a CONSTANTLY changing scenario where you are forced to be aware of everything that happens around you and to CONSTANTLY make decisions about which weapon to use in the current moment and how to dodge, based on what kind of enemies you are facing, how they are located, what weapons you have, how much ammo, how much health, how powerups are located around the arena etc.
SS (and other games of that type) DOESN'T NEED a more complex (than arenas) level design. It can actually be detrimental to the game, because you could end up with a clusterfuck that "violates the basic continuity and freedom of player agency", like here

And the fun in SS is not supposed to come from exploring the level while feeling a sense of dread or suspense and fighting small groups or individual enemies that are baring your way. The real fun comes from those tens and hundreds of small decisions that you make during a single large encounter. The more decisions (up to a point) you have to make in a unit of time, the more the fun.

 

[Fowyr]

Ha! Forgot that you need to click LOAD button after emptying magazine.

System Shock
September 23, 1994
Reloading manual, at any time, immediate, not-animate

 

[Daedalos]

y u no creck dis shit? ._.

#Feelsbadman

 

[Increasing]

Another solid video.

 

[Doktor Best]

i have watched 3 minutes of this video now and he repeated himself on several occasions up to 5 times... will this get better?

 

[soulburner]

View bobbing. Why is it not there in D44M? Why am I rollerscating? It's a big immersion breaker for me, something that really bugged me in other games, like Fallout: NV. Can't see any console commands that could change this :/

 

[Increasing]

View bobbing is just one of those things that some people will always complain about if it's there, while others will complain if it isn't there.:D

 

[Astral Rag]

y u no creck dis shit? ._.

#Feelsbadman

The only winning move is not to play.

 

[Angthoron]

View bobbing is just one of those things that some people will always complain about if it's there, while others will complain if it isn't there.:D

Some games include it as an option so both groups can complain!

 

[Unkillable Cat]

y u no creck dis shit? ._.

#Feelsbadman

The only winning move is not to play.

 

[Daedalos]

So shooting stuff for luls is not fun for you?

Okey, I guess. For me at least, not everything needs to be super high intellectually challenging all the time. Sometimes it's okay to stress down, turn the big ol' brain half-way off, and have a go' at some simple shit.

Be it moviz, games, music or whatever the fuck

 

[Durandal]

So shooting stuff for luls is not fun for you?

Okey, I guess. For me at least, not everything needs to be super high intellectually challenging all the time. Sometimes it's okay to stress down, turn the big ol' brain half-way off, and have a go' at some simple shit.

Be it moviz, games, music or whatever the fuck

that's called easy MODE, not easy GAME

 

[adrix89]

Another solid video.

I am in general support of the game but after watching that I feel dirty.
Those console peasants are eating it right up.

 

[Increasing]

?
He is a bit overenthusiastic, but other than that his video is OK.

 

[Darth Slaughter]

?
He is a bit overenthusiastic, but other than that his video is OK.

his previous great FPS were crysis, titanfall and bioshock. His best game of all-time is divinity dragon commande. Until D44M.

 

[sullynathan]

stopped the video when this guy mentioned Crysis

 

[Increasing]

?
He is a bit overenthusiastic, but other than that his video is OK.

his previous great FPS were crysis, titanfall and bioshock. His best game of all-time is divinity dragon commande. Until D44M.

This might come as a surprise to you, but different people have different taste in games. That doesn't make their opinion any less relevant. It makes them even more relevant in fact, given that here we have a case of a game that is praised by a truly broad spectrum of players.

 

[UserNamer]

From the rps review:

"Recharging health would kill the pace, scavenging for health packs would make you too vulnerable, so the solution is to make the act of killing also the act of recovery. It works beautifully, but even when a health top-up is not required,"

I can't imagine this stealth-health regen working well- but maybe I'm mistaken.

It makes the game trivial. I've seen some of the videos and the worst part is how glory kills are over powered, and how the other enemies seem to just stand around patiently waiting for you to finish your cool execution move. (can anyone confirm?)

What's wrong about having a set of finite resource in a level and if you don't pay enough attention you are screwed? Instead, with pinata enemies you just know that even if you perform badly, as long as you can kill any enemy you will Always be in top shape. I can't imagine how you can have anything resembling the tension of the best parts of the dooms with some stupid mechanic like that. They didn't even bother to have a difficulty level without health regen and a well designed item economy.



Serious sam 3 had powerful melee Attacks, but they needed timing- you would die in the time it took to execute an enemy if you did it in the middle of an horde. Sledge hammer was more powerful but you needed exact timing or the recovery animation would have been too slow to consider the weapon effective.

Other things that annoy me about this game, in order of importance:

-Why the game doesn't have the hellish moments and hordes from the older dooms and wads? Serious sam 3 had a detailed graphics and genuinelly apocaliptycal moments with hordes of creatures at the same time
-The "old doom" easter eggs. It is nice the first time, but it seems they packed the game with this sort of secret. Why? Even more stupid when you remember that they already did this in rage
-Not so important, still it annoys me: what is the deal with moder games first person animations of the character fetishizing the latest weapon\helmet whatever he picked up? To me it seems super stupid. Like that part at the beginning where he spends second watching that stupid helmet from all possible angle before putting it on. And of course the stupid fixation on new weapons. Yep, it's a gun
-enemy design (sound and art style) doesn't seem so great to me


Besides all my reservations, I will still play this game as soon as I feel like wasting hundreds of $$$ on a new pc. It looks Amazing and it seems to be a few steps back to the past (in a good sense) from modern shooters