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The New DOOM Thread (2016)

adrix89

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WOW!

159 pages of you guys complaining about a game.

Do you really hate this game, or (most likely) you secretly enjoy it but are too ashamed to admit it? :smug:
Codex likes to grumble but I think people acknowledged what it did.
Its not fucking Call of Doom, at least its an actual fucking Doom game.
The game can get stale but at least it doesn't collapse immediately.
 

DJOGamer PT

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IMHO. The game is good. There I said it, burn me at the stake for that, I really don't give a fuck.

It's defitivly not near as good as DOOM 1 & 2, but it's definitivly better than any FPS with a campgain that has been released in the last decade.

People here are just mad because it bears the DOOM name.
 

DJOGamer PT

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Snap map is hurt by consoles because it was some weak enemy/objects/area limits, few objects and lacks on things for level construction (specially for outdoor areas). Wich is sad because you can define enemies AI, events, weapon parameters, damage (even toggle glory kills on/off) and other nice options. It's something that would greatly helped in its game replay value but unfortunately has lot's of downsides (not to say that there aren't good maps to download, it's just that they are few).
 

The Dutch Ghost

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but it's definitely better than any FPS with a campaign that has been released in the last decade.

There were a couple of FPS I think that weren't that bad. Wolfenstein 2009 and Singularity.
Main issues I had with them that they were to obviously designed to be multi platform (in general rather linear and sometimes to small levels, and controls suitable for a gamepad).
Had they not suffered from these design decisions and been primarily PC based they might have been a lot bigger and better instead of just "okay".
 

illuknisaa

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It's defitivly not near as good as DOOM 1 & 2, but it's definitivly better than any FPS with a campgain that has been released in the last decade.

FEAR expansion packs, HL2 ep2, L4D1/2 and stalker games were released within a decade. There is also this thing called cacowards...
 

adrix89

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It's defitivly not near as good as DOOM 1 & 2, but it's definitivly better than any FPS with a campgain that has been released in the last decade.

FEAR expansion packs, HL2 ep2, L4D1/2 and stalker games were released within a decade. There is also this thing called cacowards...

The exceptions that prove the point. The FEAR series was anally raped, Half Life evaporated and L4D resulted in the microtransaction infestation that is Evolve. Stalker is still great but I haven't heard from them much.
If you can't see the decline and how Doom is a breath of fresh air then you don't deserve it. Lets see what you play in 5 years? Overwatch clones? Hope you like them loot boxes.

Outside of the old IP from the 90's like Doom, Wolfenstein, Duke Nukem, Serious Sam I doubt there would any more run and gun shooters. Hope you like that :popamole: and MOBAs.
 
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Cadmus

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but it's definitely better than any FPS with a campaign that has been released in the last decade.

There were a couple of FPS I think that weren't that bad. Wolfenstein 2009 and Singularity.
Main issues I had with them that they were to obviously designed to be multi platform (in general rather linear and sometimes to small levels, and controls suitable for a gamepad).
Had they not suffered from these design decisions and been primarily PC based they might have been a lot bigger and better instead of just "okay".
Singularity was a piece of fucking shit, TooD is 30x better than that.

L4D wasn't even a regular game, it was more like a shitty repetitive mod.
 

The Dutch Ghost

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Outside of the old IP from the 90's like Doom, Wolfenstein, Duke Nukem, Serious Sam I doubt there would any more run and gun shooters. Hope you like that

That is one of the main problems with FPS or a lot of other genres these days, no one wants to create a new license any more. And the old licenses seem to have been created with a mindset that is long lost now.
These days "new" ideas are much more clearly derivatives of other existing ideas than in the past when game ideas were inspired by other media or even actual creativity.
 

ZagorTeNej

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Codex likes to grumble but I think people acknowledged what it did.
Its not fucking Call of Doom, at least its an actual fucking Doom game.
The game can get stale but at least it doesn't collapse immediately.

Nah, it's a modern console arena shooter with some rudimentary level design thrown in. Has nothing to with the original Doom aside from the title name. I'm not saying it's a bad game but it's just another one of those modern titles that you'll play for the weekend and then toss into the garbage bin, I sincerely doubt it will turn out to have any staying power whatsoever. Heck I enjoyed Wolfenstein 2009 (an underrated FPS IMO) a lot more.

Don't think a proper Doom gamel will ever be made again unless some indie designer prodigy turns up (that is fascinated by 90s FPS scene). Design focuses have shifted, a lot of know-how has been lost in the meantime, consoles are the primary platforms with all its inherent limitations etc. it is what it is.

I'm sure this video has already been posted in this thread but here:





As I said, not a Doom game.
 

illuknisaa

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WTF are you talking about?

64 is a classical doom number.

Pretty much all flats (ceiling and floor textures) in doom 1/2 are 64x64 and rest of wall stuff are multiples of 8.
 

Cadmus

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I finished the game. It was a chore. I don't really have much to say about it but I'm glad it's over.
 
Self-Ejected

Excidium II

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It gets p. repetitive after it stops introducing new monsters/weapons since it's always the same enter arena -> clear arena cycle. I never liked FPS like that.
 

adrix89

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Why are there so many of my country here?
Codex likes to grumble but I think people acknowledged what it did.
Its not fucking Call of Doom, at least its an actual fucking Doom game.
The game can get stale but at least it doesn't collapse immediately.

Nah, it's a modern console arena shooter with some rudimentary level design thrown in. Has nothing to with the original Doom aside from the title name. I'm not saying it's a bad game but it's just another one of those modern titles that you'll play for the weekend and then toss into the garbage bin, I sincerely doubt it will turn out to have any staying power whatsoever. Heck I enjoyed Wolfenstein 2009 (an underrated FPS IMO) a lot more.

Don't think a proper Doom gamel will ever be made again unless some indie designer prodigy turns up (that is fascinated by 90s FPS scene). Design focuses have shifted, a lot of know-how has been lost in the meantime, consoles are the primary platforms with all its inherent limitations etc. it is what it is.

I'm sure this video has already been posted in this thread but here:





As I said, not a Doom game.

This is precisely my point. It's fault is obvious but if it had more enemies would anyone complain? The arena levels and wave spawning are because of those stupid limitations but the design of the enemies and weapons aren't bad, the levels aren't even that bad.
The stupid enemy limits and enemy variety can be fixed in future games. But no matter how many any enemies you have if its going to be another wall-hugging shooter then its pointless.
At least with demon piniata developers started to think again about health without being married to those fucking walls.
 

A user named cat

Guest
I got one of those Dorito gamer monitors that does 144hz and needed something to test. You guys, at least most of you, weren't kidding. This game is insanely boring. I was tired of it after 20 minutes. It's like Painkiller done horribly wrong. All the enemies blend in with each other and the backgrounds. They even added a fucking awesome button. Uninstalling and deleting now, a couple levels was more than enough. FPSes are dead.
 

Gepeu

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Oct 16, 2016
Messages
986
FPSes are dead.
Not dead yet, just getting old. Eg. Duke 3D recently hit his 20s. Still perfectly playable and playing it today doesn't concern me.
Will get weird when it hits his 60s.

FPS games today is just a case of a hip emo teenager trying too hard to impress his friends.
 

ZagorTeNej

Arcane
Joined
Dec 10, 2012
Messages
1,980
This is precisely my point. It's fault is obvious but if it had more enemies would anyone complain? The arena levels and wave spawning are because of those stupid limitations but the design of the enemies and weapons aren't bad, the levels aren't even that bad.
The stupid enemy limits and enemy variety can be fixed in future games. But no matter how many any enemies you have if its going to be another wall-hugging shooter then its pointless.

It's not just about having more enemies (though as things stand the enemy limit is handcuffing) but positioning them in such a way (while keeping in mind their strengths and weaknesses) as to complement level design, these two features of game design have to work in harmony instead of having an exploration/walking zone and combat zone which leads to repetitive gameplay. The end result is that NuDoom is an arena shooter while the original is anything but so calling the former a Doom game is fundamentally misunderstanding what made Doom that great in the first place. It's two different schools of design.

At least with demon piniata developers started to think again about health without being married to those fucking walls.

Found that feature to be derpy as hell to be honest, I'm fine with enemies dropping ammo from weapons they use in any FPS but that's about it (with a few exceptions like Blood due to the nature of the protagonist).
 

Astral Rag

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The year single-player shooters reclaimed their former glory
By Jeffrey Matulef Published 28/12/2016

Every so often a games comes along that is so revolutionary that it inadvertently kills its genre as everyone scrambles to replicate its success. For shooters, that game was Epic's 2006 shooter Gears of War. As covered in Tom Bissell's excellent book Extra Lives: Why Video Games Matter, Gears of War creator Cliff Bleszinski re-imagined the shooter genre as one of chaos and fear. Where big meaty soldiers would still feel vulnerable when faced with the onslaught of enemy fire chipping away at concrete mere inches from their face. In short, Gears of War wanted to change the old nature of "war is horrible, but isn't this fun?!" with "war is terrifying for even the most macho of soldiers, but doesn't it make you feel alive?" It's a subtle distinction, but an important one. Shooters were no longer about catharsis - or rather they weren't just about catharsis: they had to instil a feeling of vulnerability.

That's fine for some games (it worked for Gears), but it shifted the pulse of the genre's single-player side from the free-wheeling escapist fantasies of the original Doom into the the Michael Bay style of excess by default. How many 'splosions can we have? Can we cram more NPCs into this battle? Is this shootout "cinematic" enough?

Ironically, this focus on excess took away from the freeform interactive thrills that made the genre popular. Soon, the lion's share of shooters would look exciting, but in terms of interactivity they'd became increasingly content to let players cower behind cover while scripted series of enemies would filter in following the same familiar patterns. No matter how rousing the surface details were, the bulk of shooters in the last decade came down to cautiously popping in and out of cover.

This year, however, we had a few absolutely terrific single-player shooters that bucked this trend in a variety of different ways.

Titanfall 2 managed this through a couple of different methods. The first is wall-running, a move so effortlessly entertaining that it really ought to have joined the double-jump as the industry norm for traversal. Zipping about slick perpendicular surfaces really opens up your navigation options as it totally rewrites the rules of a 3D space. Suddenly those balconies and ledges can be accessed in no time as typically mundane surfaces like walls (a concept so banal that when Pink Floyd uses it as a symbol for conformity everyone knows exactly what they're talking about) are transformed into opportunities for speed boosting acts of derring-do.

The other way Titanfall 2 prevents fighting fairly staid hordes of NPC grunts from feeling stale is though sheer variety. As Chris Donlan noted earlier this year, Titanfall 2 isn't just a shooter: it's also a platformer and a puzzle game. Its best level, Effect and Cause, is less about lining up headshots as it is bending time to warp between two equally hazardous realities. Another memorable setpiece involves a factory where those walls Titanfall 2's convinced me to like so much keep reorienting themselves in a drifting assembly line of soulless suburban dwellings. Finally, all those moving parts that have signified a Call of Duty setpiece for the last decade aren't shifting around just to look cool, but to actually provide a new style of play. Neat!

I do have one gripe about Titanfall 2's single-player, however. As stirring as its traversal and variety are, when played on the hardest difficulty there are still quite a few on-foot sequences where the most practical way to play isn't the most fun. Scurrying about the scenery is a hoot, but too often the coward's approach of politely thinning out the heard while toggling in and out of cover at a safe distance can be too effective. But that's the exception in Titanfall 2, not the rule as it is in many contemporary shooters.

A 2016 FPS that more effectively obliterates this instinct to duck and hide is id Software's astounding reboot of Doom. In Doom, you have to keep moving. Only once or twice in the entire dozen-plus hour single-player campaign are there hidey holes that you can exploit. Enemies come at you relentlessly from all angles and if you stop, even for a second, you're going to be very, very dead (at least on the harder difficulty settings).

Like most shooters, Doom's combat encounters technically follow a set pattern, but they're so complex that there's no way to accurately follow them beyond the vague knowledge of what batches of monsters are coming up. Since enemies teleport into existence and you're encouraged to always be sprinting about, it quickly becomes impossible to memorise the enemies' marks. After a decade of shooters encouraging players to sneak about and take cover, Doom reminded me that what made the genre so thrilling in the first place wasn't the headshots, but the adrenaline rush of scampering about a spooky terrain.

Where Titanfall 2 added many non-shooter mechanics to its campaign, Doom proudly excised any superfluous cargo. Not only is there barely a story (one that takes up between maybe five minutes of its umpteen-hour campaign, which is still five minutes too much), but there's plenty of shooter conventions wilfully discarded. Reloading, as a concept, is completely omitted. Sure it doesn't make any sense that your shotgun can hold over 40 shells in its modest chamber, but this is explained through the unspoken but commonly understood logic of "this is a video game".

It's also worth noting that Doom never takes itself seriously. There's no dramatic arc where a comrade dies or someone explains the importance of your mission. In fact, when someone tried to do the latter in the game's opening minutes, the comically mute Doom Marine simply tosses away the monitor in complete indifference to the plot of the game he's starring in. As Donlan pointed out the guy you're playing as in Doom is playing Doom.

And if Doom wasn't great enough as it was, the developer later released a brilliant score attack Arcade Mode, which effectively took the game's cocaine-addled pacing and laced it with Angel Dust. Suddenly downtime was meant to be sped through to keep your kill-based score multiplier in peak form rather than a methodical exploration of the level designer's penchant for hiding secrets - scavenging for which is an entertaining puzzle-based diversion the first time, but a chore upon replaying.

While Doom offers a stripped down approach to the increasingly convoluted genre, Steam hit Devil Daggers offered an even more minimalist take on the act of running and shooting. Offering only one weapon, no backstory, and only a single basic square map in a pitch black abyss, Devil Daggers tasked folks with surviving an endless onslaught of demonic creatures. It starts simple, but if you can survive longer than a minute (already an impressive feat given that you die in one hit), you'll quickly become lost in its convoluted chaos of demonic glory. Devil Daggers is obviously not as robust as Doom or Titanfall 2's full-priced retail campaigns, but the £3.99 indie affair still went a long way toward reinvigorating the lifebood of the genre.

Doom, Titanfall 2 and Devil Daggers feel essential in an age where the shooter has been adopted as the populist toolkit of the generic, gritty grimdark macho mentality. All three titles remember that shooters weren't always about overcoming the odds while getting pinned down, but rather escapist fever-dreams about being a super soldier slaying Robo-Hitler. But it's not just the thematic light-heartedness that puts these games so far afield from their peers: it's their woefully different designs that offer a more aggressive take on the virtual firefight. 2016 was the year that reminded me that the big, dumb shooter could still be relevant in the enlightened age of Firewatch, The Witness, and That Dragon, Cancer. 2017 is going to have a hard time following up such a strong showing, but I have faith that the genuinely brilliant single-player shooter renaissance is just getting started. I mean, have you seen Strafe?

:lol:
 
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racofer

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Every so often a games comes along that is so revolutionary that it inadvertently kills its genre as everyone scrambles to replicate its success. For shooters, that game was Epic's 2006 shooter Gears of War.

:lol:

ObyYT9Q.gif
 

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