The original Tomb Raider, its remake, and the loss of subtlety

[Bad Sector]

I was going to list off a bunch of 3D toon platformers from the Nintendo 64 to the Switch and ask why those play fine without tank controls and automation, but then realized they let you steer Mario, Rayman, Banjo and Kazooie while you are in the air.

I haven't played the rest but Mario 64 is certainly not as precise as Tomb Raider. Also i think it does provide some assistance to the player for making jumps, etc, though i'm not 100% sure as it has been years since i played it.

Ok thanks, I'll probably look into emulating the PSX version then, I preferred the save crystal thing.

Personally i highly recommend the PC version because the keyboard controls allow you to use both hands spread over the left and right sides of the keyboard and are more comfortable than the PS1 dpad.

 

[Semiurge]

I've never played any RE games. Ravielsk's description made it seem as if the original RE had camera-dependent controls.

Because it does. The classic RE games switch the camera angle between rooms and sometimes even within the room itself. So a behind the back camera can instantly jump to be a front facing one or over head. What this means is that it becomes very easy to screw up your inputs and make the character go in the wrong direction as your viewing angle suddenly shifted to a wholly new position.

In normal exploration this is fine because you always have the time course correct but when you are pressed for time such as when the dogs chase you or you need to dodge around some zombies it can absolutely be a problem for first time players. In Tomb Raider or Gothic this is not an issue because the viewing angle is constantly behind your back so you basically never get in a situation where you would think to press the back direction to go forward.

So what you're saying is that RE is merely disorienting because of the camera position changes but the functions of the movement keys don't actually change in relation to the characters POV?

If they did change, then for example if the camera is located behind the character the forward key would make him go forward and away from the camera, and when the camera is located in front of the character while facing him, the backwards key would make him move towards the camera, i.e forward from the characters POV.

Personally i highly recommend the PC version because the keyboard controls allow you to use both hands spread over the left and right sides of the keyboard and are more comfortable than the PS1 dpad.

No no - let the consolefag be a consolefag.

 

[janior]

on pc you can just savescum your way through the game... save crystals are way better, not super punishing but not cheater stuff like on pc, a nice middle ground
while tomb raider is playable on the keyboard, really all 3rd person games play best on a gamepad

 

[Bad Sector]

while tomb raider is playable on the keyboard, really all 3rd person games play best on a gamepad

Tomb Raider does not use analog controls so it doesn't benefit from the main functionality gamepad provides for 3rd person games (that use the orbit style of camera controls): the analog sticks. All that remains is the same digital on-off input you get from the keyboard, except in a more constrained form factor.

 

[janior]

while tomb raider is playable on the keyboard, really all 3rd person games play best on a gamepad

Tomb Raider does not use analog controls so it doesn't benefit from the main functionality gamepad provides for 3rd person games (that use the orbit style of camera controls): the analog sticks. All that remains is the same digital on-off input you get from the keyboard, except in a more constrained form factor.

Maybe I didn't make it clear - what i meant is that d-pad is more comfortable for game like that than WASD, at least to me, my fingers get really stiff if I play tomb raider on a keyboard for too long.
It's nice that you can use just a thumb to move your character around.
That being said the remasters that will come out early next year might shift the gears toward PC versions being objectively the best.

 

[Ash]

I've never played any RE games. Ravielsk's description made it seem as if the original RE had camera-dependent controls.

Because it does. The classic RE games switch the camera angle between rooms and sometimes even within the room itself. So a behind the back camera can instantly jump to be a front facing one or over head. What this means is that it becomes very easy to screw up your inputs and make the character go in the wrong direction as your viewing angle suddenly shifted to a wholly new position.

In normal exploration this is fine because you always have the time course correct but when you are pressed for time such as when the dogs chase you or you need to dodge around some zombies it can absolutely be a problem for first time players. In Tomb Raider or Gothic this is not an issue because the viewing angle is constantly behind your back so you basically never get in a situation where you would think to press the back direction to go forward.

No, it's fine. Lay off the soy, boy.

Also TR does change camera angles to some notable degree. For example, I just played Sanctuary of the Scion and it had approximately 8 camera changes during gameplay, though one of those does depend on how many times you opt to slide down the side of the statue. That's probably the average per level. Camera angle swaps in TR has also been a common point of contention for little whiners over the years.

IMO the only alternative to tank controls that is as precise is FPS controls (e.g. Max Payne). But on a gamepad orbit controls feel better and FPS controls are only used in "aim mode" (if there is any) while any platforming is done with a copious dose of automatic actions.

What in the world? There are lets say 500 FPS games on consoles and around a mere 20 of them have an "aim mode", most being from the same lead designer (shitty rareware shooters and its copycats). Also I can't think of a single FP game on consoles or PC with ANY notable degree of platforming automation. The only exception I can think of is Thief 4.

I swear half the people here don't even play video games, just love to talk ignorant shit. Like women.

Hmm, reading again I think you're trying to say third person games with "orbit control" that switch to "FPS controls" while in "aim mode". Well, today you learn that there have been many third person games with "FPS controls" over the years, on console, so much so that I never thought to distinguish the two types of control. Control method depends on the overall design direction, and is rarely a platform-dependent thing.

Here's a sample: The Suffering series, Ratchet and Clank series, Mercenaries series, Duke Nukem: zero hour, destroy all humans series, Risk of Rain 2, Max Payne series, The Punisher and many more.

while tomb raider is playable on the keyboard, really all 3rd person games play best on a gamepad

Tomb Raider does not use analog controls so it doesn't benefit from the main functionality gamepad provides for 3rd person games (that use the orbit style of camera controls): the analog sticks. All that remains is the same digital on-off input you get from the keyboard, except in a more constrained form factor.

There is more to controllers than just analog sticks. Ergonomics, flexibility (e.g play lying down on couch and change position any time without issue, hanging from the ceiling if you really want, it's not demanding of a hard surface like M&K is), vibration feedback, pressure-sensitive triggers, non-crowded input (most games use less than 1/4 of the keyboard), no wrist strain (keyboard strains my wrist these days - weightlifting injury).

I have played constantly switching between all forms of input my entire life. I really don't see the benefit to playing TR with a keyboard, except maybe to improve overall efficiency with keyboards e.g for work. Keyboard is good for its sheer number of inputs and the ability to type in games that have that focus, not really much else. it isn't even designed for gaming in stock form. A controller is, and therein lies its advantages.
The PS1 controller didn't have analog sticks in 1996 indeed. It was just basically a gaming-focused, refined keyboard specifically for games just like TR that don't demand additional input.

Anyway, back to playing TR. On my PC. Emulating the console version. With a modern controller. The chad way to play

Personally i highly recommend the PC version because the keyboard controls allow you to use both hands spread over the left and right sides of the keyboard and are more comfortable than the PS1 d-pad

Other than analog sticks for games that truly benefit from them, Controllers are basically ultimate comfort before anything else. sacrificing a little aiming precision and dedicated shortcuts (both of which do not apply to TR) for additional comfort is the primary draw. You're not really making sense. The PS1 probably had the best d-pad ever made too. Super soft rubber/plastic with smooth rounded edges yet just enough grip, whereas every other controller opts for hard plastic and often somewhat sharp edges by comparison. That's a point, no grip on keyboard keys either.

 

[Ash]

Huh? Your news is fake. RE movement functions exactly the same as TR: movement is always relative to the player character's orientation, not the camera. e.g left always turns your character left, forward always makes him or her go forward, regardless of the camera angle. This is exactly the same as TR. Have you considered it is you and the other guy that is retarded, not RE? :D

I've never played any RE games. Ravielsk's description made it seem as if the original RE had camera-dependent controls.

Indeed, but it is fake news. It is identical to TR, just with many more camera angle swaps. The only issue here is when a camera swaps at an inopportune unexpected time (e.g just as you decided to stop moving and take aim), but the controls however are 100% consistent and navigation isn't really an issue, it's just disorienting for the soys. Most camera swaps are also at the edge of the screen so should be expected too.

That being said the remasters that will come out early next year might shift the gears toward PC versions being objectively the best.

Mathematically unlikely given the current rate of worthy remasters and remakes. They'll add timed autosaving every minute, extended draw distance, objective markers and waypoints, "remastered" soundtrack that is a soulless version with no melody...

Only saving grace would be modding tools, then I can begin the real incline. Manual aiming, 10% faster animations for pull blocks etc, new hard mode with new AI intelligence, new traps less resources etc, introduction of ammo capacity caps and maybe even limited pistol ammo. Then all the other usual incline that will come to me in the process.

Also, moving away from the ignorant shit and console/PC faggotry, returning to the earlier discussion of tone: I want to emphasize that Tomb Raider 2 possibly has the strongest tone in the series. From level 4 onwards it really is pretty much a horror game with increasing intensity. It rarely lets up. Tibetan foothills level and that's about the only break you get. At the end of the day all three of the original games have very strong atmosphere & tone though.

 

[Semiurge]

Mathematically unlikely given the current rate of worthy remasters and remakes. They'll add timed autosaving every minute, extended draw distance, objective markers and waypoints, "remastered" soundtrack that is a soulless version with no melody...

The I-III remasters are supposed to use a modified version of the original TR engine, and so far every little known factor about these seems to imply that these will be a quick cash grab made on the cheap. So incorporating new music is unlikely, which is also a huge blessing.

An infinite draw distance is very likely, but I can live with that. If the textures look too A.I.-upscaled, they can most likely be replaced. They said there will be a new control scheme meant for kb + mice/controllers, but the original will also remain more or less intact. It had better be.

 

[Ash]

Finished the game.

Natla's Mines: Pretty cool though a level with almost no enemies at the end of the game while I have tons of resources is questionable. The games reliance on pushblock puzzles is starting to chafe in these final levels, but it's a minor annoyance. Some decent platforming and non-linearity in this level. Interestingly enough, I beat the whole level with no guns, I didn't even know that was possible, I went down a (admittedly very obscure) path and it took me further and further away from the x3 fuses puzzle, I assumed this path would lead to one of the fuses and loop back but it never did. All three of Natla's henchman can be dealt with by quick observation & navigation of the environment while fleeing and chowing down a few medkits. By the time I realised I wasn't getting my guns back this way, I had made far too much progress, fuck restarting the level. There's only two after this, so not a huge loss. Luckily, pistols magically spawned in my inventory at the start of the next level, and a pair of uzis are on the floor in the entranceway too. I never did get my shotgun and magnums back though lol. TR3 designers are very happy with this outcome. I must also be one of very few players that ever had this outcome.

Atlantis: pretty cool level, don't remember it well at all, disappointed to discover it is painfully linear, which is odd as all prior levels are rather vast, also one or two bullshit traps are present. Definitely not a bad level, linearity in moderation can have its merits, though I think TR's vast levels is one of its major strengths so it is probably one of the weaker levels.
I was a bitch and used one, just one save state in my entire TR adventure on this level. Lame and I should be ashamed.
Love the interesting take on atlantis thematically-speaking.

Great Pyramid: Starting boss is cool, a bit awkward but it serves its purpose given the game's limited combat. Nice gauntlet of challenges, difficulty is nice, again very linear, a bit where you have to shimmy between arrow traps makes no sense as the timing seems to be off and you can't make it past without damage. Starting the level with a pushblock yet again was a poor choice, but all in all a decent enough finale, and a cool classic 90s cutscene at the end. I love late 90s FMVs, just one reason of many why 90s games are peak art lol. Natla boss at the end is no big deal and maybe unnecessary, but it doesn't hurt to add one more twist and boss at the end in climactic fashion, and to see her true atlantean form.

8/10. God blessed the 90s. Not a top ten 90s game, but definitely top 50. The biggest issue it has other than the lacking combat is the damn slow pace dictated by some of the animations, especially shimmying and push block animations, but even general climbing should be a little faster, just a little. Otherwise it is old gold. Run speed, swim speed, walk speed, switch pull anim speed, jumping, weapon swap speed, all that is fine. Just certain ones are painful.

Now, to play or not to play TR2 & 3... TR2 will ruin the peak fun factor with cucksaving, shitting your pants half way through a platforming gauntlet with no potential to save in sight and the last one was 5-10 mins ago is peak TR after all, enhancing the stakes, tension, atmosphere, challenge, everything, and TR3 with its inventory mugging half way through the game is retarded. May skip.

 

[Tweed]

Finished the game.

Natla's Mines: Pretty cool though a level with almost no enemies at the end of the game while I have tons of resources is questionable. The games reliance on pushblock puzzles is starting to chafe in these final levels, but it's a minor annoyance. Some decent platforming and non-linearity in this level. Interestingly enough, I beat the whole level with no guns, I didn't even know that was possible, I went down a (admittedly very obscure) path and it took me further and further away from the x3 fuses puzzle, I assumed this path would lead to one of the fuses and loop back but it never did. All three of Natla's henchman can be dealt with by quick observation & navigation of the environment while chowing down a few medkits. By the time I realised I wasn't getting my guns back this way, I had made far too much progress, fuck restarting the level. There's only two after this. Luckily, pistols magically spawned in my inventory at the start of the next level, and a pair of uzis are on the floor in the entranceway too. I never did get my shotgun and magnums back though lol.

Atlantis: pretty cool level, don't remember it well at all, disappointed to discover it is painfully linear, which is odd as all prior levels are rather vast, also one or two bullshit traps are present. Definitely not a bad level, linearity in moderation can have its merits, though I think TR's vast levels is one of its major strengths so it is probably one of the weaker levels.
I was a bitch and used one, just one save state in my entire TR adventure on this level. Lame and I should be ashamed.
Love the interesting take on atlantis thematically-speaking.

Great Pyramid: Starting boss is cool, a bit awkward but it serves its purpose given the game's limited combat. Nice gauntlet of challenges, difficulty is nice, again very linear, a bit where you have to shimmy between arrow traps makes no sense as the timing seems to be off and you can't make it past without damage. Starting the level with a pushblock yet again was a poor choice, but all in all a decent enough finale, and a cool classic 90s cutscene at the end. I love late 90s FMVs. Natla boss at the end is no big deal and maybe unnecessary, but it doesn't hurt to add one more twist and boss at the end in climactic fashion, and to see her true atlantean form.

8/10. God blessed the 90s. Not a top ten 90s game, but definitely top 50. The biggest issue it has is the damn slow pace dictated by some of the animations, especially shimmying and push block animations, but even general climbing should be a little faster, just a little. Otherwise it is gold.

Now, to play or not to play TR2 & 3... TR2 will ruin the peak fun factor with cucksaving, shitting your pants half way through a platforming gauntlet with no potential to save in sight and the last one was 5-10 mins ago is peak TR after all, enhancing the stakes, tension, atmosphere, challenge, everything, and TR3 with its inventory mugging half way through the game is retarded. May skip.

Now you play Unfinished Business.

 

[Ash]

That has cucksaving + I was slightly tiring of TR1 by the end. Nah, skip. I am drawn to replaying the two immediate sequels for the expansion of mechanics, arsenal, music and audio design etc, and the nostalgia trip of course, but idk...

Best TR1 levels:

St Francis Folly
The Cistern (this one is often unpopular among players if I recall, but I thought it was epic).
City of Khamoon
The Lost Valley
Palace of Midas
City of Vilcabamba

 

[Lemming42]

TR2 is the best of the franchise by some margin, IMO. One of the few videogame sequels that's a genuine improvement on the original in almost every way (though TR1 is excellent and has a very special atmosphere that might reasonably make some people choose it as their favourite). The only step back is the excessive combat, though it's generally over pretty quick.

When I replay the series I just do TR1 and TR2 these days, 3 has its moments but it's overwrought and full of sloppy content, and I never really liked any of the ones from 4 onwards.

Though oddly, trying to recall my favourite individual levels, most are from TR1 - especially Lost Valley, St Francis Folly, and The Cistern. I think TR2 just gels together nicely as a big adventure, and has some really superb stuff like The Deck and the entire finale under the Great Wall of China (I even like Floating Islands, which everyone seemed to hate back in the day).

 

[Ash]

TR2 is the best of the franchise by some margin, IMO. One of the few videogame sequels that's a genuine improvement on the original in almost every way

Meh. Sequels in gaming in the 90s were somewhat consistently epic.

System Shock 2
Tomb Raider 2
Doom 2
Turok 2 (1 is arguably better but it is largely a toss-up, some things better some things worse)
Duke 3D's spiritual sequels were all equally good (Shadow Warrior and blood).
90s Final Fantasy games were consistently incline (yeah yeah no console crap allowed here except TR. Tough shit! We celebrate incline here and you're missing out)
Parasite Eve 2
Age of Empires 2
Street Fighter 2
Resident Evil 2 (I still prefer the original but some of its improvements cannot be denied).
Tony Hawks 2
Sim City 2000
Lemmings 2
Worms Armageddon
Mario 3

I could honestly go on for quite some time. It was the age of INCLINE.

Granted, there are a lot of games where the original remains the best, but back then you could pretty reliably be excited for a sequel and have it deliver bigger and better, if not at least just as good.

 

[Tweed]

No, it's all downhill after TR1.

 

[Ash]

Though oddly, trying to recall my favourite individual levels, most are from TR1 - especially Lost Valley, St Francis Folly, and The Cistern. I think TR2 just gels together nicely as a big adventure, and has some really superb stuff like The Deck and the entire finale under the Great Wall of China (I even like Floating Islands, which everyone seemed to hate back in the day).

Tibetan Foothills, Venice, Offshore Oil Rig, Temple of Xian, Great Wall, Wreck of the Maria Doria...some really cool levels.

Regarding Oil Rig, I will try to put into words why I like this level so much: the modern industrial setting with heavily abstract gameplay-oriented execution, yet it is still somehow exotic and mysterious (how many people have ever set foot on an oil rig? The real life versions are really nothing like this anyway because heavy abstraction, it's just unique), the ambient music which creates a lot of atmosphere, getting your guns robbed actually done right unlike TR3, some decent platforming here and there. I like the level's colors, metallic greys mixed with dull blue paint, lots of pretty blue water, some greens here and there, I just like it. Scuba divers with harpoon guns in the water are creepy and add a more notable threat to water sections which are quite tame in TR1. But that fucking really tall ladder jesus christ Core made some odd design decisions here and there amongst the genius. Drags the entire level down.

I don't quite remember how Ice Palace plays specifically, but I certainly remember the atmosphere and shitting my pants wondering what kind of death awaits me in those noisy dark cages.
Jump pads were a respectable effort to diversify the gameplay.

As mentioned before, Maria Doria levels should have had its own unique beasts (like Ice Palace) instead of or in addition to recycling dagger cult members/mercs, but otherwise pretty much peak atmosphere, horror and modern setting tomb raiding. Plus I have a rational fear of the deep dark ocean more so than most things in this life, so that certainly adds to it.

Venice and Bartoli's hideout gave me a slight Venice (the real world location) fascination. again though, the real life version is really nothing like this, and nor should it be. Games focusing on realism has mostly led to decline. I play games to escape reality, silly.

 

[Tweed]

Wreck of the Maria Doria was my favorite.

 

[Egosphere]

TR2 is the best of the franchise by some margin, IMO. One of the few videogame sequels that's a genuine improvement on the original in almost every way (though TR1 is excellent and has a very special atmosphere that might reasonably make some people choose it as their favourite). The only step back is the excessive combat, though it's generally over pretty quick.

When I replay the series I just do TR1 and TR2 these days, 3 has its moments but it's overwrought and full of sloppy content, and I never really liked any of the ones from 4 onwards.

Though oddly, trying to recall my favourite individual levels, most are from TR1 - especially Lost Valley, St Francis Folly, and The Cistern. I think TR2 just gels together nicely as a big adventure, and has some really superb stuff like The Deck and the entire finale under the Great Wall of China (I even like Floating Islands, which everyone seemed to hate back in the day).

Disagree. The human, hitscanning enemies made the combat far more aggravating than in the original, even if chances of dying to them were very low. The snowmobile sections are extremely dated. They weren't particularly much fun when I first played the game in 2003. Now they're just painful. Also the harpoon gun was too finnicky to get a consistent lock on the enemies. It's ok for divers, but sharks and especially eels are best just avoided like the crocodiles in the original. Wouldn't be a problem if there weren't a lot more underwater sections than the original. The levels, like you mentioned, don't hit the highs of its predecessor either.

 

[Bad Sector]

What in the world? [..stuff..] Hmm, reading again I think you're trying to say third person games with "orbit control" that switch to "FPS controls" while in "aim mode". Well, today you learn [..stuff..] Here's a sample: ... Max Payne series ...

You know, you may want to try reading and comprehending what you reply to before attempting to be a smartass:

IMO the only alternative to tank controls that is as precise is FPS controls (e.g. Max Payne).

There is more to controllers than just analog sticks. Ergonomics, flexibility (e.g play lying down on couch and change position any time without issue,

I agree that gamepads can be more comfortable to play (and practically the only solution when you want to play from a couch) and in general i use them often instead of KBM even on my PC exactly for that comfort. But in the particular case of Tomb Raider (and really any game with similar controls) when playing on the PC i find keyboard to be more comfortable. Note that i have tried to play the game on both a modern xbox-style gamepad and a PS-like one. I find using the arrows to move much more comfortable than the dpad.

 

[Ash]

The snowmobile sections are extremely dated. They weren't particularly much fun when I first played the game in 2003. Now they're just painful.

Explain how.

"""dated""" lol. Can't escape the soys. So you're implying action games today or in the 2000s have better vehicle sections?

Disagree. The human, hitscanning enemies made the combat far more aggravating than in the original, even if chances of dying to them were very low.

Then you don't recall the second half of TR1 too well. It is endless mummies and atlanteans, which are the same enemy just with skin swap that jump around at absurd speeds constantly bumping into you and there isn't much strategy or skill involved with them at all. Spam power weapons, make sure to target prioritise properly and chow medkits as necessary is pretty much the skill ceiling. Acrobatics against them doesn't really help you in most cases it's just random - by the time you land from your jump they have already circled around and are in your face again.
The human gunners aren't great in TR2, sure, but it's not the big deal people make it out to be. Combat is kinda shitty in classic TR games either way. They're strong games more on the merits of everything else, so dismissing TR2 over a moderate overuse of hitscanners seems dumb, especially when there are plenty of other enemy types.

 

[Egosphere]

The snowmobile sections are extremely dated. They weren't particularly much fun when I first played the game in 2003. Now they're just painful.

Explain how.

"""dated""" lol. Can't escape the soys. So you're implying action games today or in the 2000s have better vehicle sections?

Disagree. The human, hitscanning enemies made the combat far more aggravating than in the original, even if chances of dying to them were very low.

Then you don't recall the second half of TR1 too well. It is endless mummies and atlanteans, which are the same enemy just with skin swap that jump around at absurd speeds constantly bumping into you and there isn't much strategy or skill involved with them at all. Spam power weapons and chow medkits as necessary is pretty much the skill ceiling. Acrobatics against them doesn't really help you in most cases it's just random.
The human gunners aren't great in TR2, sure, but it's not the big deal people make it out to be. Combat is kinda shitty in classic TR games either way. They're strong games more on the merits of everything else, so dismissing TR2 over a moderate overuse of hitscanners seems dumb, especially when there are plenty of other enemy types.

There's nothing to explain. Snowmobiles handled terribly.

As for atlanteans - the four legged ones weren't hitscanning, since they fired fireball projectiles that could be dodged. Mummies could also be dodged with side jumps, or you could climb onto ledges to avoid their attacks. TR2 just bursts out of the gate with the early levels in venice full of silenced pistol snipers that will shear away half of your health unless you get them tangled up by running around them in circles.

 

[Ash]

Handled terribly in the same way Lara herself does eh? It's largely the same controls after all. Can you not just adapt? Have you tried not using a keyboard lol? For example, the accelerate button on console is pressure sensitive and how hard or soft you push determines acceleration, just like a real life accelerator.

"It should be realistic!", he cried.

Yeah, it doesn't quite handle like a real life snowmobile overall, but handling is one mere aspect of an entire level and not a big deal. Lara doesn't handle as one might expect either, and is considered dated by the soys. What about the all the cool jumps, the music, the puzzle-like and exploratory level design, running over the dudes or shooting them with the machine gun mounts, the fact that reckless driving whittles away at your health so driving it is actually engaging. Actual game design that modern games lack.

All that really matters regarding handling is it is consistent in controls & physics + simple to grasp, which it 100% is. Obviously your adaptability stat is 0.

"As for atlanteans"

Atlanteans/mummies are just not fun. Especially when there are mutliple, total shitshow. Getting high ground elevation is of course the dominant strat against the majority which do not use projectiles, but not always an option and also totally lame because it is the same dominant strat that works against 90% of enemies. No wonder they went a little overboard on the shitscanners in the sequel. Firstly it's not even that bad, half the levels don't even have any hitscanners, and second is again, TR combat is shit either way and at least they pose a consistent threat. I had so much health by the end of TR1, the majority of the enemies and encounter setups do not pose much challenge.

I'm not defending it, it is a little problematic, but the impact on the overall game experience really is rather minimal as TR combat is shit either way and other classic TRs have similar problems.

 

[Egosphere]

Lara handles perfectly for the levels and the gameplay that are laid out before you. The vehicle sections were simply tacked on 'cinematic' moments that added not much of anything beyond annoyance. The boat section gets a pass, since slamming through windows and fucking up some gondolas was at least cool. The snowmobile otoh is akin to having Lara wheelchair bound. It also doesn't help that the camera starts to stutter if you hug the walls, which happens throughout the whole series sure but is especially egregious on the snowmobile as it tries to reset every 0.5 seconds. I played it on PS1 so not sure what the keyboard comment is for.

I don't consider Atlantis to be a particularly great denouement for TR1, even if I appreciate some of the horror undertones they introduced. But I do consider TR2 to be decline, and I thought much the same when I played it back in the day. My TR3 playthrough fizzled out half way through and I kept up only a sporadic interest in the series thereafter. Most of that, I now realize, was simply dissatisfaction with what followed straight after 1.

 

[Ezekiel]

I was going to list off a bunch of 3D toon platformers from the Nintendo 64 to the Switch and ask why those play fine without tank controls and automation, but then realized they let you steer Mario, Rayman, Banjo and Kazooie while you are in the air.

I haven't played the rest but Mario 64 is certainly not as precise as Tomb Raider. Also i think it does provide some assistance to the player for making jumps, etc, though i'm not 100% sure as it has been years since i played it.

Mario 64 provides no assistance at all. Mario Odyssey doesn't steer a jump from one platform to another either.

 

[Ash]

What in the world is cinematic about the snowmobile section? Lol this guy. They even toned down the number of camera angle swaps for this level as you're travelling at high speed along tight ledges. It basically turns the game into a different type of platformer for one level (high speed platformer). Typically, the vehicle levels would not have camera swaps until the very climax of the level - the boat has the window smash, and the snowmobile has the ravine jump. Otherwise no camera swaps while in the vehicle. These camera swaps also happen while you're in the air so as to not mess with the control. Priorities.

You're also just dismissing how the vehicle levels play like grand puzzles that span the entire level (which is also not cinematic) as well as the other nuances that make it unique from other shitty vehicle sections in action games.

They clearly sat in a boardroom and thought how can we diversify the gameplay, add more sense of adventure, inject some variety and make the game just more cool. Not HA We ARE CORE and We are retards! Let's add this entire level for cinematic purposes not thinking of anything beyond that.

You're dumb

I don't consider Atlantis to be a particularly great denouement for TR1, even if I appreciate some of the horror undertones they introduced. But I do consider TR2 to be decline, and I thought much the same when I played it back in the day. My TR3 playthrough fizzled out half way through and I kept up only a sporadic interest in the series thereafter. Most of that, I now realize, was simply dissatisfaction with what followed straight after 1.

The Egyptian levels are unfortunately plagued by both Atlanteans and mummies too. But luckily quite a lot of Jaguars and centurians too, which are much better enemies.

 

[Egosphere]

Agree to disagree then.