The Outer Worlds: Spacer's Choice Edition - Obsidian's first-person sci-fi RPG set in a corporate space colony

[Wunderbar]

RPG Codex : Josh Sawyer ruins games by making everything perfectly balanced

Also RPG Codex: some TOW weapons and builds are better than others, what the fuck?

It is easy to misrepresent what "the Codex" thinks.

almost as if codex isn't some kind of hivemind.

 

[Van-d-all]

it should've been a proper mechanic instead of some lame joke.

At the same time every option in aptitudes list has 2-3 voiced "funny" comments from Dr when you pick it. So if you hadn't got a joke from the first click they would hammer it again and again.

I have R&M noise filter in my brain, so I stopped listening to him somewhere mid intro.

 

[RickOmbo]

Larians: We can't hold our jokes.
Nubsidia: We need to crack at least one joke every five minutes.

 

[Reinhardt]

This thread is really boring lately. Where is all funny pics?

 

[Roguey]

I thought she was responsible for the writing in WM and I thought that was largely solid.

Again calling on Roguey to bless us with his insight.

White March was written by Fenstermaker with an assist from Patel. She wrote the Devil of Caroc and the very-poorly received Maneha. She's also responsible for the infamous "Wow, your bigotry is showing" line from Deadfire. Apparently Avellone liked her book, but I read a bit of it and didn't like it https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...-go-to-new-thread.119594/page-96#post-5921621

Also evergreen reminder https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...-go-to-new-thread.119594/page-98#post-5921825

 

[cvv]

Also evergreen reminder https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...-go-to-new-thread.119594/page-98#post-5921825

Those blasts from the past are great. Like for example this one:

Ah I see we've arrived at the inevitable "bitch about millennial female writers" part of this game's lifecycle. Might as well get it over with.

But look, this isn't a thing that's going to go away. In fact it's going to get worse. And it's not really about California. Look at the demographics. Which of the two sexes reads more books today? Which one earns more college degrees, especially in literature and the humanities?

We're not going to return to the era where most of an Obsidian RPG's writers were overeducated dudes who were born in the 1970s and played Planescape: Torment in college. That generation has moved on. You should actually expect majority-female or even all-female RPG writing teams to be the norm in the future.

Look at Infinitron, never thought of him as

 

[Roguey]

TOW ended up being half-women/half-soymen in terms of writing staff anyway. Starks/Dollarhyde/Patel, Kirsch/Poddar/McPhee.

 

[GentlemanCthulhu]

The problem is not that women write games. They can write fantastic stories. The problem is when writers suffer from the "valley girl syndrome". You don't have to be a woman to suffer from this syndrome either.

• Writing games for your echo-chamber at the expense of others.
• Masking white, middle-class Americans in minority "covers" and calling it Diversity. No character in TOW is anything but white, middle-class American.
• Adopting a holier-than-thou attitude towards critics without even understanding their points.
• Being from California.

 

[Riddler]

TOW ended up being half-women/half-soymen in terms of writing staff anyway. Starks/Dollarhyde/Patel, Kirsch/Poddar/McPhee.

So the issue was California all along?

 

[Riddler]

Masking white, middle-class Americans in minority "covers" and calling it Diversity. No character in TOW is anything but white, middle-class American.

White middle class progressive American or an extremely shallow projection of their feelings on some other group.

 

[Van-d-all]

Masking white, middle-class Americans in minority "covers" and calling it Diversity. No character in TOW is anything but white, middle-class American.

White middle class progressive American or an extremely shallow projection of their feelings on some other group.

Pretty much boils down to

Spoiler

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Oh, two more pages, I wonder what this is abou...

California, valley girls and colorful hair.

 

[Shadenuat]

RPG Codex : Josh Sawyer ruins games by making everything perfectly balanced

Also RPG Codex: some TOW weapons and builds are better than others, what the fuck?

It is easy to misrepresent what "the Codex" thinks.

almost as if codex isn't some kind of hivemind.

he's simply trolling, and poorly.

at current state of the game, there are no builds to talk about. you can kill anything perfectly fine with 0 in gun skills. the only skills which somewhat change the game state are Dialog, and you can often do with just one of them being high.

 

[Roguey]

You guys are overlooking Nitai Poddar, but that's all right, he's practically an Italian anyway.

 

[cvv]

The problem is not that women write games. They can write fantastic stories.

Sure they can. But their style is generally different. There are already algorithms that can identify the writer's gender, it's so well defined. (Btw finally a way to determine if there are any actual women on Codex).

I wouldn't say women can write fantastic "stories" per say, not in terms of plot structure, pace, action and high-concept themes. But they far surpass men when it comes to finegrained character studies, societal interactions etc., as you'd expect.

Hence they're actually well suited to writing RPGs, at least things like companions, dialogues etc., the connection tissue between the big blocks.

So you're both right and wrong. First, the problem with TOW companions isn't that they're written by women. It's that they're written by third-rate hacks who've never been told they suck and should find a job in a cubicle making coffee instead. Because in the coastal America everyone is special, everyone is a champ.

But second, the main problem with TOW's overarching themes being so vapid, lame and low-concept absolutely IS gender.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

RPG Codex : Josh Sawyer ruins games by making everything perfectly balanced

Also RPG Codex: some TOW weapons and builds are better than others, what the fuck?

It is easy to misrepresent what "the Codex" thinks.

almost as if codex isn't some kind of hivemind.

he's simply trolling, and poorly.

Hey, it worked on Kit Walker.

 

[vortex]

We need to extract writing genome from Avellone and create new, so called, codenamed Compound MCA.
Every millennial+ writer gets vaccinated.
Problem solved.
Mic Drop.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

The developers are no longer some lads full of passion ready to create a work of art, but instead a bunch of workers toiling under a corporate structure and alienated from the product of their labor by post-Trotskyite elements of the current petite bourgeoisie which supervise and direct their work.

Because the Black Isle developers were totally not workers dealing with Interplay's incompetent leadership. They were volunteers, in fact.

Tim Cain and MCA were largely left to their own devices when they were creating Fallout and Torment.

 

[Hot Coldman]

We need to extract writing genome from Avellone and create new, so called, codenamed Compound MCA.
Every millennial+ writer gets vaccinated.
Problem solved.
Mic Drop.

High hopes for Iron Tower writer Vince's next game too, Mothership.

 

[Trashos]

Ah I see we've arrived at the inevitable "bitch about millennial female writers" part of this game's lifecycle. Might as well get it over with.

But look, this isn't a thing that's going to go away. In fact it's going to get worse. And it's not really about California. Look at the demographics. Which of the two sexes reads more books today? Which one earns more college degrees, especially in literature and the humanities?

We're not going to return to the era where most of an Obsidian RPG's writers were overeducated dudes who were born in the 1970s and played Planescape: Torment in college. That generation has moved on. You should actually expect majority-female or even all-female RPG writing teams to be the norm in the future.

Infinitron is making some good points here (although I would expect that women have been reading more than men for decades now, many women are at home when men are at work), but I have to disagree with the bottom line.

If you want to get competent dudes to write, you can get them. It is not like there are a billion gaming companies that focus on writing. Look at Kingmaker (or Disco Elysium fans will probably bring up DE- I haven't played it yet), where have these guys been? Apparently, noone was looking for them.

But even if I go full liberal and pretend that women can successfully write for a male audience (which is not impossible, I just consider it very rare), can they at least try to hire competent ones that can appeal to said audience?

Not to mention that Obsidian had the most talented game writer ever and they lost him. As a matter of fact, they had quite a few very good writers and they lost them. I do not think they can be excused.

 

[vortex]

There are competent game writers like Scott Hamm but far more female writers are dominant simply because they can easily write from home while raising kids.

 

[Riddler]

First, the problem with TOW companions isn't that they're written by women. It's that they're written by third-rate hacks who've never been told they suck and should find a job in a cubicle making coffee instead.

This I can more or less agree with and for that reason I think I'm done with Obsidian (caveat being if Sawyer creates a truly autistic historical game).

But second, the main problem with TOW's overarching themes being so vapid, lame and low-concept absolutely IS gender.

How so? Boyarsky was lead narrative designer and co-director here. Shouldn't the blame for this be placed on him?

Blame the characters being vapid on the individual writers but enforcing the overall direction has to be the lead's responsibility, no? One could of course argue that this was an impossible mission given his staff but he could at least have nipped Parvatis companion quest in the bud.

My take is that Leonard is still burned out and doesn't have the energy to wrangle 5.5 incompetent writers into creating something decent.

 

[cvv]

Oh, two more pages, I wonder what this is abou...

California, valley girls and colorful hair.

Bro you've written an elaborate wall-o-text review and not a peep about the writing quality and the relevant bigger picture. Good job?

It's like you're doing a detailed review of the new iPhone, meticulously describing all the features, functions and faculties, while being completely oblivious to the fact you're standing waist deep in a trash compactor and the walls are slowly closing in.

 

[Lacrymas]

But even if I go full liberal and pretend that women can successfully write for a male audience (which is not impossible, I just consider it very rare), can they at least try to hire competent ones that can appeal to said audience?

The first burning question is "what does it mean to appeal to a male audience?". Your answer would be "pretty ladies and buff dudes saving those pretty ladies", but that's extremely shallow and most well-read adult men wouldn't find that very exciting or stimulating. There's a whole novel about that, it's called Don Quixote. What is left then?

 

[PrettyDeadman]

A recurring observation: https://www.somethingawful.com/video-game-article/outer-worlds-disco/ Prime Junta

Both Outer Worlds and Disco Elysium are very bad games, okay?