Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

The Outer Worlds: Spacer's Choice Edition - Obsidian's first-person sci-fi RPG set in a corporate space colony

AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
Patron
Joined
Nov 23, 2014
Messages
16,535
Location
At large
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
This. Proof - Torment, TW3, ME1, some of the best games ever with mediocre gameplay at best.

Obviously for decades we had games with great gameplay and shitty writing (98% of RPGs from 1980s on) but at least the inept writing in all the grorious RPGs of yore, hacked together by autistic neckbeard engineers with zero artistic talent, didn't stand in the way of your enjoyment of combat, itemization, exploration, systems etc.

But TOW made me so sick with the subliminal estrogen, vegan, Bay Area bluehair vibes the world and characters gave out I couldn't be able to enjoy it even if the combat or itemization was good. Which is wasn't.
Feelz overrule balanced and fair systems. People have fond memories of old games because they were too young and noob gamers to notice how unbalanced their systems were and how corny the writing. Take Fallout for example. You aren't solving any complex problems, but you see the animation of the gun firing, you target a body part, you hear the sound, and the gecko is gibbed. You get to feel as if you just killed a monster, and that's what matters. A story is imprinted in your brain - you fought a wild animal and killed it with a gun. It was thrilling.

We hunt for those kind of moments in games. I remember playing Thief: TDP, another great example - you are not doing anything complex again - watching your light indicator and listening for footsteps. But you as a living playing person are watching and listening, and you are larping your character's watching and listening. You press and hold the right mouse button and you hear the lockpicks clicking inside the keyhole. You might just be holding down a mouse button, and swapping lockpicks now and then to progress the process, but you feel like a master thief :lol:

I remember you were a fan of KCD. That game relies on evoking those feelings in the same way, doesn't it.
 
Last edited:

KVVRR

Learned
Joined
Apr 28, 2020
Messages
624
So I came to the conclusion that if you want to play a pro-corporations character, you have to roleplay something of a vatnik instead of a libertarian.
Even this becomes kinda hard to do because of how the corporations are portrayed in the game. When you roleplay a character like that, you want to be behind something grander than you, you need to think of yourself as higher than the ones you're gonna surpress -- but how can you do that when the whole board route is you doing busywork for people that are, by all means, mentally handicapped? For you to do this in this game requires to go out of your way to turn Phineas in, and he's the only character that seems to be truly on your side even if you go on a full on rampage and kill literally every single npc in the game even if that doesn't really make sense. It's not like the corporations treat you well, the guy you need to talk to to betray Phineas is one of the most annoying in the game from what I remember. So instead of playing as this tyrant that rules with an iron fist you just end up becoming another corporate lackey. You being from the other colony ship and in cohoots with the only rebel in the game already puts you at odds with the establishment.

The only real reason I can think of would be that you fundamentally disagree with Phineas' halfbaked plan to save the colony. But then the board's plan is almost just as stupid as well. It's just not a good setup for a roleplaying experience, it's like the writers simply didn't want to write for that side of the story so they... just didn't, really. I remember having the same problem with the DLCs which don't really incorporate the corporations that much. I think. I can barely recall anything from them, honestly.

The only glimmer of interest this game had is its way of dealing with conversational responsiveness to the player - it seemed like an effort had been made to make the NPCs more "aware" of the player's choices, and comment on them in amusing ways, which I think is something that could be done much more in RPGs.

(While of course avoiding the ridiculous telepathy games sometimes have - you know, you dungeon delve in some obscure place and next time you go to town all the NPCs somehow know exactly what you did.)
I wish the companions in this game were better than they actually are because of this system. Having them actually interject in conversations is a very cool feature. But then they're just... not really that interesting, honestly. Ellie is a borderline caricature and hates her rich parents. Max's quest is a nothingburger and actively makes his character less interesting once you finish it. Parvati wants a gf (and is asexual). The only one that I really enjoyed was the meme cleaner robot, I'm not sure that's a good thing.
 

cvv

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
18,589
Location
Kingdom of Bohemia
Codex+ Now Streaming!
People have fond memories of old games because they were too young and noob gamers to notice how unbalanced their systems were and how corny the writing.
Nostalgia is certainly a bitch and nostalgiafags are disgusting creatures.

But You can play old games even now, when you're an old fart, and they're still fantastic. Within the last 10 years I played Betrayal at Krondor again, old Wizardries and M&Ms, Fallout 1/2 and many others and I had a blast. I didn't think the systems were unbalanced, quite the opposite. And yes, the writing is corny, with rare exceptions, but again - it doesn't make you wince over stunningbrave girlbosses, black vikings and all white-straight-male chars being either wet noodles or evil assholes.

As for KCD, the game relies on strict authenticity, regardless of currentyear imperatives (no there weren't any female knights or black aristocrats in early 1400 rural Bohemia, end of story), and a gameplay tightly centered around immersion.
 

AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
Patron
Joined
Nov 23, 2014
Messages
16,535
Location
At large
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
People have fond memories of old games because they were too young and noob gamers to notice how unbalanced their systems were and how corny the writing.
I didn't say this as a bad thing.

As for KCD and authenticity, I was talking about the game designer's choices about the best way of translating the player character's actions into activities for the player, a.k.a. minigames. The stealth activity is more authentic than the pickpocketing activity for example. But in the end it's somewhat subjective, it comes down to "did it give you the feeling you yourself were prowling behind some guy and swiping an object from him?".

It's just not a good setup for a roleplaying experience, it's like the writers simply didn't want to write for that side of the story so they... just didn't, really.
Same impression here, even from just Edgewater, it's obvious how the writers have been playing favorites. In the case of this game and this developer, this is quite a condemnation on the writing's quality.
 

9ted6

Educated
Joined
Mar 24, 2023
Messages
903
It's just not a good setup for a roleplaying experience, it's like the writers simply didn't want to write for that side of the story so they... just didn't, really.
Cain's sure as hell not as good as he used to be. The Outer Worlds doesn't just preach a specific viewpoint at you, it does so with all the subtlety and nuance of a bus getting dropped on your head.
 

Diggfinger

Arcane
Joined
Jan 6, 2014
Messages
1,223
Location
Belgium
I mostly thought the game was OKtm

The world, weapons and quests were OK, sometimes amusing. Definitely MANY ways to go about (some) quests with wildly different outcomes.

But there's alot of combat - and it gets really repetitive. Some more AI patterns - like in Borderlands where enemies sometimes rage and attach each other - wouldve gone a long way. I just found myself sticking to the same weapons and having the same experience over and over again.
Also, wasnt must interesting in terms of build-diversity I wanted to try. They played it way too safe here.

Alas, I must say getting through the final hours was a chore. Only took me 15H to complete the game, but felt like an eternity in the end :-/

Maybe the DLC(s?) make it more interesting but Im OK for now.
 

cvv

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
18,589
Location
Kingdom of Bohemia
Codex+ Now Streaming!
Me after 2 hours with TOW

clint-eastwood.gif
 

Krivol

Magister
Joined
Apr 21, 2012
Messages
2,107
Location
Potatoland aka Prussia
I see Tim Cain inspired more people to play this shit.

I also decided to try again.

It's fucking worse than Fallout 4 and I got to the Monarch to check if it gets better! I started DLC (the Murder one) and had a nice time with it for an hour, and then exploration started...

How can you fuck up with exploration? How can looking for stuff under every rock become boringfest?

Tim, I hope you were fucked in the ass hard...

Never again!
 

Krivol

Magister
Joined
Apr 21, 2012
Messages
2,107
Location
Potatoland aka Prussia
It's like he slept through the development of RPGs for the last 20 years, and someone woke him from cryosleep.
But 20 years ago we had Gothic, Thief 1 and 2, and Deus Ex - games, where exploration is awesome to this day.

It's like he played only Fallout 3 and Borderlands and decided to mix them up (and even failed with that - lulzy Borderlands writing is actually fun and works with the game's atmosphere).
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
36,201
How can you fuck up with exploration? How can looking for stuff under every rock become boringfest?
Obsidian's designers are more the Bioware-style
Sawyer ages ago said:
I don't think most RPG designers actually think about gameplay -- especially not core gameplay. I think this is due to a few problems: first, some gamers (and even some game devs) view gameplay as a chore. They are quite vocal about wanting to pursue the story and characters more as a choose-your-own adventure novel than as an integral part of a role-playing game. Because of this, designers often focus on the creative aspects of RPGs to a fault -- essentially letting the core gameplay elements fall by the wayside.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
36,201
Can you please attempt to explain what Sawyer thinks is fun? Genuinely curious.
Simple, clear mechanics that have layers of complexity added over time and a roller coaster of difficulty with brief moments of frustration and irritation.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom