Jagged Alliance The RPG genre is weak. Very weak. Probably the weakest traditional genre in gaming

[jackofshadows]

I always played JA2 with 6 IMPs as the primary core of the team

It all make sense now. As far as I know, it's not exactly "the intented" way to play. However, the game allows a very different approaches for playing and that's what makes it great among other things. Still, it doesn't seem fair to base assessment on this kind of thing.

Still, while I struggle to recall any other RPG that has an option to replace your struggling party with endgame-tier NPCs who've got nowhere to develop further, I have a nagging feeling that JA2 is not the only one.

Konung is the one, actually. It proves nothing though, because strategic/tactical/management aspects of JA2 are still there.

Both Rages of Mages games would be an interesting example (you can either rely on party development or on mercenaries for the most part of the game) by the way since they also has a very strong strategic elements but not nearly as strong as JA2 has.

 

[Thac0]

Goldbox series, Dark Sun, Nahlakh and the likes "tactical"

Aren't most of the Goldbox games blobbers? That makes them closer to Wizardry.

I would call Dark Sun just a CRPG. Although I have heard them referred to as TRPGs/SRPGs before.

I have genuinly never heard of Nahlakh before, you have some prestigious boomer taste.

Because they are too busy fapping to 8 years old lolis.

She is a 666 years old devil dragon ok?

 

[mondblut]

I always played JA2 with 6 IMPs as the primary core of the team

It all make sense now. As far as I know, it's not exactly "the intented" way to play. However, the game allows a very different approaches for playing and that's what makes it great among other things. Still, it doesn't seem fair to base assessment on this kind of thing.

Well, everybody I knew played with 90210 from day one, and 1.13 pretty much officially made it the default way to play rather than an obscure secret.

Anyhow, bringing in the cheapest AIM and MERC recruits and reinforcing them with local recruits is the closest I would call as the "intended" way to play, and many still tend to stick with them till the end - which is sorta the same.

 

[Grauken]

Goldbox series, Dark Sun, Nahlakh and the likes "tactical"

Aren't most of the Goldbox games blobbers? That makes them closer to Wizardry.

Not really, the Goldbox games are a bit of a combination of blobber and tactical combat, most Goldbox have rather simplistic dungeons that don't come close to Wizardry and worse of all, show a map of it most of the time. They are really their own thing.

Because they are too busy fapping to 8 years old lolis.

Some things are worth fapping to

 

[mondblut]

Goldbox series, Dark Sun, Nahlakh and the likes "tactical"

Aren't most of the Goldbox games blobbers? That makes them closer to Wizardry.

You walk like this:

But fight like this:

So, no. They are not "blobbers" in any strict sense.

I have genuinly never heard of Nahlakh before, you have some prestigious boomer taste.

Quite.

 

[mondblut]

Some things are worth fapping to

It's a man.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

I always played JA2 with 6 IMPs as the primary core of the team

It all make sense now. As far as I know, it's not exactly "the intented" way to play. However, the game allows a very different approaches for playing and that's what makes it great among other things. Still, it doesn't seem fair to base assessment on this kind of thing.

Well, everybody I knew played with 90210 from day one, and 1.13 pretty much officially made it the default way to play rather than an obscure secret.

Anyhow, bringing in the cheapest AIM and MERC recruits and reinforcing them with local recruits is the closest I would call as the "intended" way to play, and many still tend to stick with them till the end - which is sorta the same.

Wait I thought the intended way to play was to create your own merc (with max guns), hire as many mercs with high gun skills as you can afford (which usually means Lynx/Scope and some leftovers) and using just them until you got to a mine.
That's how I was playing the game since I first tried it as a kid until I beat it a couple of years ago. I always wondered why were all these bottom feeders even included.
Makes me wonder what other games I've played wrong.

 

[Jason Liang]

On the whole JA2 thing with the comparison to Final Fantasy Tactics and Fire Emblem:

Final Fantasy Tactics and Fire Emblem (and der Langrisser and Tactics Ogre and so on and so on) are not actually JRPGs. They are adjacent to JRPGs, but the genre has its own name in SRPG. That stands for Strategy RPG in the west and for simulation rpg in the east. They are however generally free to discuss in any JRPG forum, since they are "part of the family" and do not have a big enough fanbase to make their own forums.

For me the situation is exactly the same with JA, its not a classical CRPG following either the Wizardry adventure party formula continued by goldbox and IE, nor is it an ultima descendant game with a lone hero gathering a troupe of allies like Fallout, Arcanum etc. JA is a T(actical)RPG,a nichegenre in a nichegenre. And as such they should be treated like "part of the family" aswell.

Now why do the weebs never argue wether SRPGs are JRPGs and just accept that ambigious state? Because they are not retarded.

The complexity is that we have this category of games that we call squad tactics games. And JA is just a squad tactics game with adventure game elements. That doesn't make it a full rpg. The code reflects this, it is coded like a squad tactics game.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

On the whole JA2 thing with the comparison to Final Fantasy Tactics and Fire Emblem:

Final Fantasy Tactics and Fire Emblem (and der Langrisser and Tactics Ogre and so on and so on) are not actually JRPGs. They are adjacent to JRPGs, but the genre has its own name in SRPG. That stands for Strategy RPG in the west and for simulation rpg in the east. They are however generally free to discuss in any JRPG forum, since they are "part of the family" and do not have a big enough fanbase to make their own forums.

For me the situation is exactly the same with JA, its not a classical CRPG following either the Wizardry adventure party formula continued by goldbox and IE, nor is it an ultima descendant game with a lone hero gathering a troupe of allies like Fallout, Arcanum etc. JA is a T(actical)RPG,a nichegenre in a nichegenre. And as such they should be treated like "part of the family" aswell.

Now why do the weebs never argue wether SRPGs are JRPGs and just accept that ambigious state? Because they are not retarded.

The complexity is that we have this category of games that we call squad tactics games. And JA is just a squad tactics game with adventure game elements. That doesn't make it a full rpg. The code reflects this, it is coded like a squad tactics game.

What does code has to with anything. If they forced players to start with IMP mercs (with much lowers stats), and added a lot of dungeons and quests the game would play like a proper RPG, but it would still be programmed the same way.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

Any other additions of "why the hell did I bother levelling my characters when these dudes were there all along?" are welcome in the thread.

Cauri Blackthorne is probably the most "iconic" as she can be recruited quite early, but there are other high level recruitable NPCs in MM8.

 

[jackofshadows]

Anyhow, bringing in the cheapest AIM and MERC recruits and reinforcing them with local recruits is the closest I would call as the "intended" way to play, and many still tend to stick with them till the end - which is sorta the same.

I'm not sure about that. I mean, who knows what were devs thinking when they didn't lock top mercs from recruiting early on but personally I prefered to recruit just one Lynx to start clearing shit right off the bat instead of doing that by bunch of amateurs (later on I could afford one more at least average merc etc). Amateurs were good at one way ticket scout missions though.

Cauri Blackthorne is probably the most "iconic" as she can be recruited quite early, but there are other high level recruitable NPCs in MM8.

Eh, how could I forget this example. Although it's basically powergamer's exploit territory (not if the game was hard by any standarts). And the whole recruitement system was unbeleivably fucked up in MM8. They tied in a pretty open world game NPC's ahem consent to join to a certain plot points which could be passed on a very broad range of party level. So in case of rush of these missions new possible NPCs were overpowered beyond reason and in case of dragging the plot NPCs were absolutely useless at that point. Glorious.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Just saying, if RPG is a subgenre all these

gymnastics that ultimately end in "Halo is a RPG because you play the role of Master Chief" could be avoided.

Some things are worth fapping to

It's a man.

It's not the big strong ones you should be wary of.

 

[Luckmann]

Well, everybody I knew played with 90210 from day one, and 1.13 pretty much officially made it the default way to play rather than an obscure secret.

Anyhow, bringing in the cheapest AIM and MERC recruits and reinforcing them with local recruits is the closest I would call as the "intended" way to play, and many still tend to stick with them till the end - which is sorta the same.

I'm not sure about that. I mean, who knows what were devs thinking when they didn't lock top mercs from recruiting early on but personally I prefered to recruit just one Lynx to start clearing shit right off the bat instead of doing that by bunch of amateurs (later on I could afford one more at least average merc etc). Amateurs were good at one way ticket scout missions though.

I think part of the greatness of Jagged Alliance is that there isn't any "intended way to play". Whether you go for Lynx or Gus early on or fill out a full team of scrubs is entirely left to the discretion of the player, and you'll win or lose accordingly - but it is also fairly "balanced" as to leave the optimal approach entirely debatable.

Come to think of it, that absence of an "intended way to play" and the embrace of emergent gameplay is what unifies all of these games, regardless of what genre they're in.

 

[undecaf]

I think part of the greatness of Jagged Alliance is that there isn't any "intended way to play".

This is very true. And while I don't think JA(2) is an RPG, it is one of the aspects of a well designed RPG too; i.e. Fallout 1&2.

 

[Falksi]

Jagged Allience 2 - Could never get into it.

So I'm gonna give it another go. At what point, and roughly how many hours in, does it really click with everyone?

 

[NJClaw]

The complexity is that we have this category of games that we call squad tactics games. And JA is just a squad tactics game with adventure game elements. That doesn't make it a full rpg. The code reflects this, it is coded like a squad tactics game.

Why do you keep embarrassing yourself like this? Just stop, it's painful to watch.

 

[Luckmann]

Jagged Allience 2 - Could never get into it.

So I'm gonna give it another go. At what point, and roughly how many hours in, does it really click with everyone?

I can only speak for myself in saying that I loved it from the first moment, but that was also when the game was new.

But then again, I already liked the first Jagged Alliance, even if I was too young to really appreciate it.

 

[JarlFrank]

Goldbox series, Dark Sun, Nahlakh and the likes "tactical"

Aren't most of the Goldbox games blobbers? That makes them closer to Wizardry.

It's not a blobber when the combat doesn't play out in the blob perspective.

 

[undecaf]

It's not a blobber when the combat doesn't play out in the blob perspective.

Wasn't there a debate long ago that said Wasteland (1) is not a blobber because it has no FPP movement? How did that end?

I do not think that way, to be honest. To me Wasteland is a blobber, because everything aside from few gameplaydesigned things happen through blobber standards (aside from FPP).

 

[Falksi]

Jagged Allience 2 - Could never get into it.

So I'm gonna give it another go. At what point, and roughly how many hours in, does it really click with everyone?

I can only speak for myself in saying that I loved it from the first moment, but that was also when the game was new.

But then again, I already liked the first Jagged Alliance, even if I was too young to really appreciate it.

Cheers mate. That's fair dinkum.

If Jagged Allience had a penis, Lilura would be leaking spunk out of her ears by now after how much love fluid she's ingested over the years from it. But I keep reading about it, and rarely does anyone say why it's so good, or when those elements fall into place.

I found it really crap & empty at the start though, but bare in mind first time I played it was 2017.

I might try it again, but it'd be nice to know if there's a point roughly where it all starts to click, and all the gameplay & good elements have shown their hand (e.g. in the original X-Com I fell for it the point when Chrissalids first arrived on the scene)

 

[Lilura]

Jagged Allience 2 - Could never get into it.

So I'm gonna give it another go. At what point, and roughly how many hours in, does it really click with everyone?

I don't think you have the gaming aptitude and pedigree to play Jagged Alliance 2; it's only for the elite. Maybe stick with your SNES/Genesis write-ups in General Gaming.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Jagged Allience 2 - Could never get into it.

So I'm gonna give it another go. At what point, and roughly how many hours in, does it really click with everyone?

I don't think you have the gaming aptitude and pedigree to play Jagged Alliance 2; it's only for the elite.

That's possibly the dumbest thing you've posted so far. The game is super straightforward and can be finished by practically anyone.

 

[Latro]

Jagged Allience 2 - Could never get into it.

So I'm gonna give it another go. At what point, and roughly how many hours in, does it really click with everyone?

I don't think you have the gaming aptitude and pedigree to play Jagged Alliance 2; it's only for the elite.

That's possibly the dumbest thing you've posted so far. The game is super straightforward and can be finished by practically anyone.

This means it is a bad game? Or sub-par? Or any less good?

 

[Lilura]

That's possibly the dumbest thing you've posted so far. The game is super straightforward and can be finished by practically anyone.

Says the retard who admits to not only needing walkthroughs and Let's Plays, but also plays on Easy mode, with cheats.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Jagged Allience 2 - Could never get into it.

So I'm gonna give it another go. At what point, and roughly how many hours in, does it really click with everyone?

I don't think you have the gaming aptitude and pedigree to play Jagged Alliance 2; it's only for the elite.

That's possibly the dumbest thing you've posted so far. The game is super straightforward and can be finished by practically anyone.

This means it is a bad game? Or sub-par? Or any less good?

What I mean is that you don't need to be "elite game" to appreciate it. You play it and you either like it or you don't. Don't get me wrong, I was hating on it heavily in this thread but not because I thin the game is horrible or something. . It was reaction to Liura pretending that it's somehow leagues above every other game. I've finished it and had fun most of the time, it's just not one of my favorite titles. I think that 14th place on the list is well deserved and my only objection is that it's higher than Wizardry 8 which I consider the superior SirTech RPG.

I might try it again, but it'd be nice to know if there's a point roughly where it all starts to click, and all the gameplay & good elements have shown their hand (e.g. in the original X-Com I fell for it the point when Chrissalids first arrived on the scene)

Nope. I enjoyed the game but my biggest gripe is that nothing really changes as you go along. You get more mercs, more varied gear, enemies get better, there are some special encounters later on but nothing really changes that much. If you got past Drassen, conquered one more city and you still dislike the game then your opinion probably won't change later.

That's possibly the dumbest thing you've posted so far. The game is super straightforward and can be finished by practically anyone.

Says the retard who admits to not only needing walkthroughs and Let's Plays, but also plays on Easy mode, with cheats.

I think you've confused me with some other poster.