The toughest rpg u can't beat?

[Atomic]

But 7 is way harder?

7 is way longer not harder. Except for the Gorrors monsters but they are optional.

 

[JarlFrank]

Is anyone here who ever beat Wiz4: The Return of Werdna at least once?
Is it even possible?
Is it?

It is.
I did.


I had to use a walkthrough. AND IT WAS STILL THE FUCKING HARDEST GAME ON THIS SIDE OF THE MULTIVERSE.
If you know someone who didn't use one... pray and kneel, you've met the lord of RPGs.

I can probably introduce you to a few then.

Hardest RPG that I finished was probably Bard's Tale 3. Wizardry 6 wasn't easy either.

Nothing is harder than the Wizardries, especially from 4 to 7.
8 is a bit less hard, I got through the starting dungeon without too many problems, which is pretty unusual for a Wizardry game. It's still challenging, and fun. And makes me realize how much I miss those old party-based first person RPGs. I hope Ubisoft will make a Might and Magix X one day. In the style of M&M 6 and 7.

 

[Demnogonis Saastuttaja]

I couldn't finish Baldur's Gate. All text vanished at some point, making it pretty hard to do anything.

It also took many tries to beat Fallout 2, since usually I used all explosives in the game to blow people up, not figuring out that you need them in the end.

 

[Admiral Rimjob POOBUM]

Need the explosives or the people?

 

[SkeleTony]

Helherron.

really. Its a tuff krawl.

It has it's moments but Nahlakh is tougher. Nahlakh is probably the toughest indie RPG ever made.

I never bothered with Wizardry 4 as the premise and design of that one did not interest me. Wizardry 7 had some ridiculously tough crap(Beast/1,000 eyes etc.) and I do not think I ever finished that one(more because it was too long and I got burned out IIRC). The battle with Nessie in Wizardry 8 was absurd if you did not use cheese tactics(such as waiting until your party was around level 25+ to take her on).

ToEE w/Co8 is currently making me contemplate uninstalling the game before my characters reach second level. But I will probably just try some different tactics and realize it was not as hard as it seemed.

Icewind Dale I could not finish but only because it was so poorly written/designed that I did not want it taking up space on my hard drive for long(was pretty simple anyway as far as I got). IWD2 does not run on my rig with WinXP(a weird bug where I cannot enter any buildings in the first town) so I have no idea how hard that one is.

Nethack/ADOM/Angband/Crawl are all fucking HARD!

I am not including any real-time games because they are usually made pretty non-RPGish by their combat.

 

[Jasede]

I never had trouble with Nessie and I didn't cheese. But, I am not meaning to brag, I found 7 terribly hard. My party was imported from 6 and all hybrid/elite classes so we had no magic to speak of in the lower levels. :/

 

[Mayday]

Oblivion.
Still haven't brought myself to finish it.

 

[Section8]

Wizardry 7 is pretty fucking unforgiving. Even when you know what's ahead of you, it's hard to adequately prepare for the next raping you'll get. The Ratts that ambush you on the way into New City are usually really fucking tough, and it takes a long time to get the better of Savant Troopers or Guards in any great numbers. There are some tough Gorns in Orkogre Castle, the pitch black bits in the Tower of Dane are fucked up, then there's the tree people, the fucking Rattkin Ruins, Iguanadons, Munks, Moths, fucking birds and jellyfish...

I can't think of too many enemies I'd be happy to run into in Wizardry 7. Even the weaker ones pissed me off, because they'd wear down my health and mana enough to complicate any difficult battles. But fuck me, the world needs more games like that.

 

[ecliptic]

Demise

 

[Kthan75]

Have somebody managed to beat Kangaxx without the so called cheese tactics(turning in to Slayer, buying protection scrolls).

Kangaxx can be beaten without turning into the slayer, and I didn't use any special protections. My mage was casting spells staying mostly out of the room (because if he imprisons your character, the game ends) and I had Minsc, Keldorn (w/ holy avenger) and Anomen (w/ crom feyr) whacking him off.

Demogorgon was also an interesting challenge but I beat him in my second try.

My toughest battle in BG2 was actually Firkrag (the red dragon, not sure I spelled it right). This was because I tried to beat him as soon as I encountered him, although I believe he is meant to be killed later in the game. I spent two days on that battle and eventually brought him down, giving me the holy avenger quite early in the game (you never see this kind of reward in Oblivion, i guess )

Another tough battle I remember was in TOEE, during the scene with Iuz and St. Cuthbert. I may be wrong, but as far as I know, normally you are not supposed to beat Iuz, as St. Cuthbert stops the battle and sends him away. Well, I had some kind of bug and when St Cuthbert appeared, he did nothing. Eventually, I beat Iuz and I got a special ending about him.

Lastly, underestimating the three death knights in MOTB can prove a fatal mistake... It was a fun challenge the first time, but in my second playthrough I utterly pwned them. :D

 

[Circuitbreaker]

Wizardry 7 is pretty fucking unforgiving. Even when you know what's ahead of you, it's hard to adequately prepare for the next raping you'll get.

What really made the Wizardry 7 battles hard was the totally random numbers of opponents. In a random encounter you could face anything between 1-4 groups of enemies with the groups themselves consisting of a totally random of enemies as well.

This also includes "fixed" battles. I was trashed in a battle in Orkogre Castle against some Orkogre Lord + a number of tough Gorn fighters + bunch of Gorn rangers + bunch of Gorn spearman totalling over 20 enemies. I subsequently reloaded and then at the same spot only faced the first two groups, which my party managed to defeat still with great difficulty. Although the Wiz7 enemies themselves might not be too tough, the fact that they usually have large numbers, are accompanied by ranged attackers and/or spellcasters even makes the wimpier enemies a real threat.

On the other hand managing to survive such lengthy battles without one of the team dying is quite rewarding. Wizardry 8 is less hard although you still run into similar huge battles. The first time you go from the Monastery to Arnika, is really on par with the difficulty of Wizardry 7 though.

 

[kingcomrade]

You guys just reminded me of Homeworld, which was fucking impossible to beat without abusing the "reclaim" ability.

 

[Chork]

The robots at the end of Wiz7 nearly gave me a goddamn aneurysm.

 

[Binary]

Nothing is harder than the Wizardries, especially from 4 to 7.

How many Bard's Tales have you finished?

I can in the very least assure you that Bard's Tale 3 is way harder than Wizardry 6 - which is already a very hard game. Take your conclusions from that.

 

[Andhaira]

I actually beat firkrag really early (first encounter). I think my group was level 9 or so.

it took a few tries but I didi it withint 1-2hours or so. the trick was summoniongs; I summoned 5 critters (mostly elementals thanks to jaheira) and destroyed him.

magic missile also helped a ton.l

 

[inwoker]

It also took many tries to beat Fallout 2, since usually I used all explosives in the game to blow people up, not figuring out that you need them in the end.

wut?

 

[Norfleet]

You guys just reminded me of Homeworld, which was fucking impossible to beat without abusing the "reclaim" ability.

By "reclaim", you meant indulging my innate kleptomaniacal tendencies? I didn't find it all that hard, but I tend to be a compulsive kleptomaniac and stole everything which wasn't nailed down. If it can be pried loose, it's not nailed down.

 

[kingcomrade]

I mean reclaiming your ships for resources at the end of the mission so that the automatic difficulty generator at the beginning of the next mission creates a smaller enemy fleet than normal, then using your reclaimed resources to rebuild your fleet immediately.

 

[Destroid]

I didn't notice the dynamic difficulty in hw1, but in hw2 it was really sucky (hw2 was easy though).

The hardest rpg I have played was Mordor I think, pretty sure I never made it very far in that.

 

[DraQ]

I mean reclaiming your ships for resources at the end of the mission so that the automatic difficulty generator at the beginning of the next mission creates a smaller enemy fleet than normal, then using your reclaimed resources to rebuild your fleet immediately.

What.

I completed HW1 without such dirty tricks.
The last mission is insane at the beginning, but if you can survive that (and have a handful of salvettes) you've won.

I didn't notice the dynamic difficulty in hw1

It's like level scaling - if you don't notice it, it means it's well implemented.


Regarding Wizardry 8 - it can be challenging, but is it that hard? Alchemy is ultimate economy breaker, so you can pretty much afford whatever money can buy if you have a full/part time alchemist in your party. Besides, I'm having a breeze with furry only (with exception of RPCs) party right now, even though Rawulf bishop (I have two of these) isn't exactly optimal combination.

I have to admit, though, that assaulting the kurgan in Mountain Wilderness at level 10-11 did consume quite a few resurrection powders.

 

[SkeleTony]

Wizardry 8 was not hard. One of the easier games I finished overall. My earlier point about 'Nessie' was that, regardless of what anyone tells you that bitch is ngh impossible if you take her on without cheese/exploits at the level you are able to(like 12-13 IIRC). She is like "Tiamat" or something at that level!

But other than that the game is not hard.

 

[mjorkerina]

My toughest battle in BG2 was actually Firkrag (the red dragon, not sure I spelled it right). This was because I tried to beat him as soon as I encountered him, although I believe he is meant to be killed later in the game. I spent two days on that battle and eventually brought him down, giving me the holy avenger quite early in the game (you never see this kind of reward in Oblivion, i guess )

Cast haste on yourself, lower his magic resistance, summon crappy monsters and anything that can distract him, shoot him with a lot of magic missiles, before the battle you should also use minor sequencer to store two magic missiles and then sleep (try to own scrolls of it too), then let your fighters finish him and you won't need more than a mere minute to beat the shit out of him.

Of course you don't necessarily know all that when you begin the game and encounter Firkraag for the first time, but even at very low levels, he's not that tough once you know how to make him have his last breath.

 

[Kthan75]

Of course you don't necessarily know all that when you begin the game and encounter Firkraag for the first time, but even at very low levels, he's not that tough once you know how to make him have his last breath.

You are right, I didn't know all that at the time. It was actually my first D&D experience. One of my mistakes was that I didn't have Lower resistance with my mage...

Another funny thing that I remember was that after trying for some time I actually came very close to beating him (he was "near death"). So then I thought I should use Jaheira to cast Heal on Minsc. Too bad I clicked a few pixels to the left and healed Firkraag instead.

 

[Zero Credibility]

I didn't notice the dynamic difficulty in hw1

It's like level scaling - if you don't notice it, it means it's well implemented.

I'm not so sure about this. I don't remember Homeworld 1 having dynamic difficulty either. Homeworld 2 yes (and it sucked), but Homeworld 1? And the mentioned tactic of retiring/rebuilding ships doesn't sound like a good idea for Homeworld 1 to me. You only get a part of your resources (one half, I think) for retiring ships and as there are not a lot of resources to throw around in Homeworld 1, this would quickly left you bankrupted.

Back to the topic - my toughest rpg experience was my attempt at soloing IWD2. Now that is a game with truly awful difficulty scaling. The game scales difficulty (that is, number of enemies) to the average level of your party. The problem is that the game presumes that you are playing with a full 6 men party. Add to that the reduction of experience rewards as you level up and you get some really idiotic situations. My solo character had more enemies thrown at him than a average 6 men party would ever have and yet would get next to no experience for it all. I finally gave up in disgust when I ran into 3 dragons that gave me about 200xp each when I finally managed to kill them.

 

[DraQ]

I didn't notice the dynamic difficulty in hw1

It's like level scaling - if you don't notice it, it means it's well implemented.

I'm not so sure about this. I don't remember Homeworld 1 having dynamic difficulty either. Homeworld 2 yes (and it sucked), but Homeworld 1? And the mentioned tactic of retiring/rebuilding ships doesn't sound like a good idea for Homeworld 1 to me. You only get a part of your resources (one half, I think) for retiring ships and as there are not a lot of resources to throw around in Homeworld 1, this would quickly left you bankrupted.

I remember at least one level that does or doesn't have resource deposits depending on your resources/fleet/idontreallyknow.

But the main reason why retiring was stupid tactics is that it pretty much irreversibly reduced unit count if you did a lot of salvaging, as you could easily exceed the maximum number of craft by salvaging enemy ships, but you couldn't rebuild salvaged vesselsn after retiring them, due to said limit.