Ultima The Ultima Underworld I & II Thread

[Gord]

Well, if you need to get out of lvl7 fast, you can always just die, I guess. If you used the silver sapling, that is.

 

[Elwro]

Yeah, I know, I just really wanted to persevere I wrote down some stuff from the gravestones from the tombs, I'm wondering whether the fact that some inscriptions have missing letters is important.

The problem is I'm playing this in 1-2 hour sessions between which even a week may pass (too much real-life work), so I guess I may have already forgotten some important details... we'll see.

edit: and as for the lack of clues, I already felt pretty for figuring out where the Cup of Wonder was. :D

 

[Sceptic]

edit: and as for the lack of clues, I already felt pretty for figuring out where the Cup of Wonder was. :D

That's probably my second favorite quest It's funny because the first time I played the game I actually found the cup just by exploring (I was very thorough with exploration - still am I guess) and had no idea it was important, so I of course left it there. MUCH later on I pieced together the clues for the mantra, and when I found the cup again I had a great DOH! moment.

 

[Elwro]

It's funny because the first time I played the game I actually found the cup just by exploring (I was very thorough with exploration - still am I guess) and had no idea it was important, so I of course left it there.

How did you know what to do in the empty room?

 

[Unkillable Cat]

My thoughts exactly. Finding the Cup of Wonder isn't something you just "do" by accident, especially the first time round.

Sure, it's possible through exploration (of substance abuse) and trial and error to find where the Cup is (even though that's a stretch) but to make it appear means figuring out what one particular conversation means, then backtracking to do the necessary "ritual". And by that time you should be pretty aware of how important the Cup is.

So yeah, on this matter I'm the sceptic, not you.

 

[Sceptic]

Brainfart. I found the room, not the cup.

 

[Elwro]

OK, I got the crown of you know what. I found the means of crossing the maze in the last unexplored place, of course

I also seem to have reached the other end of the lava pit without even needing to cross the pit in the first place, so the map was perhaps not needed at all. I reached that point via level 8. And then went to the maze which killed me of course. Now that I have the crown I will perhaps finally be able to reach Tyball. Goddamn the game's great! But I have to go to sleep now....

edit: I've also been carrying a 'resilient sphere' since, I guess, level 1 or 2. Wondering whether it does anything

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Resilient sphere: After your confrontation with Tyball, and when you're ready to leave Level 7, cast Vas Rel Por upon the sphere. ;-)

 

[Sceptic]

Resilient sphere: After your confrontation with Tyball, and when you're ready to leave Level 7, cast Vas Rel Por upon the sphere. ;-)

Correction: wait until you've fully explored the backrooms before you do. There's a lot of hidden stuff to find, so don't be in a hurry to do what UC suggests.

 

[Elwro]

Ouch. Gate Travel? OK, but I'll only do it if my character figures it out :larpin':
Good that I haven't thrown it away, then.

edit: OK, I killed him, but I would have no idea what to do with the sphere, so I'm not touching it.

Right now: haulin' my ass up through these nifty hidden parts of the levels reached via the NW-ern part of lvl 7... I did rest and Garamon told me to fetch his bones; wondering whether this is the 'fetch quest' you've been telling me about.

edit 2: also, I gather that the 'orb rocks' are somehow to be used to destroy Tyball's orb, but I haven't figured out how. Maybe I'll come back there later.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Yes, finding Garamon's bones is the somewhat problematic fetch quest, as you're kinda looking for a needle in a haystack.

The sphere: It's possible that a high Lore skill may tell you what the sphere actually is. Once its true name is revealed, the rest should be all too obvious to the Avatar.

As for the Orb: Talk to Naruto. He's in the passage just south of the prison.

As for the NW-ern parts of the levels: You may get curb-stomped at the top. A couple of old "friends", plus a new one, are waiting for you...

 

[Elwro]

I had already talked to Naruto, that's why I knew I should get the orb rocks. Now I realise I should've probably just used the rocks on the orb, but I was so enthusiastic after having killed Tyball that I didn't try the easiest option. I though it'd be the same as with the splinter, that just having them in the inventory would be enough, but I guess I'll have to go back there and destroy the orb.

In combat Tyball fled into the maze and he dropped dead on a spot outside of the golden path Fortunately I was able to grab all his items, but it was close and I had to reload twice.

edit: the dialogue with Garamon was rage-inducing, I lost 10 minutes or more trying to figure out the keyword. "Talismans" was wrong. Finally I said "talisman" and he responded "Yes, they would do nicely"....

edit2: holy shit@the endgame !

 

[Sceptic]

Congrats! Endgame's pretty trippy isn't it

And in case you didn't figure out, there's a hint on which path to take aaaaaaaaaall the way back on level 1.

 

[SCO]

path? wtf is that shit, i just threw the orb

in retrospect i like UU1 more than UU2.

 

[Elwro]

Sceptic: yeah, I figured it out actually I mean, after taking a wrong path once, going back, and taking the correct path (entirely by chance), and finishing the game, I realised "ooooh, now I get it, that's what the vision back on level 1 was about"

SCO: what orb?


Finding Garamon's bones was frankly p. easy - the metal golem and runestones was quite a hint Later I realised the starving fighter imprisoned on lvl 8 also gives you a hint.

Also, I completed lvl 8 without touching lava even once. But I had to fight powerful critters on the path I took, I guess I could've moved around them via the lava "rivers".

 

[SCO]

The

Spoiler

moonstone, can be used for bypassing most of the maze by throwing it over to the platform and casting gate travel

 

[Elwro]

LOL, OK, that's a nice idea. I finished the whole game with my character being completely oblivious of any moonstones

 

[Unkillable Cat]

One fact about Level 7... magic works there, there just isn't any Mana available to cast spells. If you only had a way to cast spells without using any mana...

Tyball's master plan had a fatal flaw, as my scroll of Time Stop showed him... or actually, didn't, as he suddenly dropped dead from multiple stab wounds that mysteriously appeared all over his body...

 

[octavius]

I tried to replay this game 2-3 years ago, but after having played modern games like Oblivion and Dark Messiah I couldn't stomach the small play window, the blocky graphics and the rather cumbersome controls.
But after having been in retro mode for 1.5 years, only playing games older than UU, the game suddenly looked quite impressive when I recently revisited it again.
It certainly was a revolutionary game compared to for example Black Crypt that was released for the Amiga at about the same time. Black Crypt has better sound (the only weak part of UU), but is otherwise a "poor man's Ultima Underworld".
(I suspect the Amiga fanboys hyped Black Crypt due to it being Amiga only, and because Dungeon Master and Chaos Strikes Back was developed on the Atari ST.)

In theory it should be possible to get good sound for UU, though, if you had a Roland sound card.
I tried to emulate the Roland sound card as discussed in this post at GOG, but to no avail. Despite getting the two needed ROMs, the game still plays piano sound when walking.
People claim it's possible to get Roland sound, but the only examples of the Roland sound I've found is the music from the intro, including a video from our own Jaesun. I sure would like to hear how the Roland sounds when walking, fighting and swimming in Ultima Underworld.

 

[GreyViper]

I find it easier to return to UU if I play a bit Dagerfall before it, then the transition is easier, still I like UU2 best.

 

[Sceptic]

In theory it should be possible to get good sound for UU, though, if you had a Roland sound card.

If you specifically have the Roland CM-32L (or derivative) then sound in UW1 is AWESOME, as the game uses some of the sound effect banks specific to that module.

People claim it's possible to get Roland sound, but the only examples of the Roland sound I've found is the music from the intro, including a video from our own Jaesun. I sure would like to hear how the Roland sounds when walking, fighting and swimming in Ultima Underworld.

If Jaesun hasn't done it by the time I'm less busy, I'll do some recordings. But you should be able to get reasonable emulation with DOSBox SVN and the CM-32L ROMs. If you search for posts by me that mention the SVN you should find links and some basic instructions on getting it to work.

 

[MMXI]

In theory it should be possible to get good sound for UU, though, if you had a Roland sound card.
I tried to emulate the Roland sound card as discussed in this post at GOG, but to no avail. Despite getting the two needed ROMs, the game still plays piano sound when walking.
People claim it's possible to get Roland sound, but the only examples of the Roland sound I've found is the music from the intro, including a video from our own Jaesun. I sure would like to hear how the Roland sounds when walking, fighting and swimming in Ultima Underworld.

The music works perfectly for me using new versions of MUNT. It sounds gorgeous in fact. Don't bother using custom DOSBox builds with built in support though. MT-32 emulation should ideally be completely independent of whatever emulator you're using. With MUNT set up correctly you can even use it in ScummVM as it has a terrible old version of MUNT built in to it.

Anyway, just follow my instructions in this post: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/might-and-magic-7-9.65635/page-2#post-1841646

 

[octavius]

In theory it should be possible to get good sound for UU, though, if you had a Roland sound card.
I tried to emulate the Roland sound card as discussed in this post at GOG, but to no avail. Despite getting the two needed ROMs, the game still plays piano sound when walking.
People claim it's possible to get Roland sound, but the only examples of the Roland sound I've found is the music from the intro, including a video from our own Jaesun. I sure would like to hear how the Roland sounds when walking, fighting and swimming in Ultima Underworld.

The music works perfectly for me using new versions of MUNT. It sounds gorgeous in fact. Don't bother using custom DOSBox builds with built in support though. MT-32 emulation should ideally be completely independent of whatever emulator you're using. With MUNT set up correctly you can even use it in ScummVM as it has a terrible old version of MUNT built in to it.

Anyway, just follow my instructions in this post: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/might-and-magic-7-9.65635/page-2#post-1841646

Actually I don't care about the music. And besides Windows can emulate the Roland music. At least the music sounds much better if choosing Roland instead of Soundblaster from the UU config file/program. It is the sound effects that is the problem.
I followed your instructions, and typing "mixer/listmidi" says:
0 "Microsoft GS Wavetable SW Synth"
1 "MT-32 Synth Emulator"

So I edited the UU dosbox.config to use midi config 1. But when starting the game the result was the excact same as described in the link in my original post - piano music when walking.
However, this time the sdtout.txt says:
"MT32:Couldn't find control files
MIDI:Can't open device:mt32 with config:."

I can't see that I've done anything wrong, and the ROMs are obviously the right ones since SVN accepts them and installing the driver with mt32emu_drv_GUI.exe doesn't produce any error messages. And I can choose the MT32 Emulation from the Midi tab of the Windows Sound Properties, and set MT32 to be the default.

Only things I can think of that may possibly affect things:
I don't have a dedicated sound card, just a cheap integrated sound card called "CMUAC Speaker".
I don't have speakers, but use head phones with an USB connection.

And I'm still puzzled by what's the big deal about the Roland music. I can't hear any difference from the music in Jaesun's video and the music produced by the Windows midi system. But I hear a dramatic difference for the worse when switching over to Soundblaster to play the music.

 

[MMXI]

And besides Windows can emulate the Roland music.

No it can't. All Windows can do for you is play general midi through its really bad sound canvas wavetable. Windows doesn't emulate the MT-32, which is what Ultima Underworld uses (if you don't select adlib/sound blaster). You need MUNT for that, or that custom build of DOSBox which includes MUNT. Or, of course, a real MT-32 compatible device (fuck you Sceptic and Jaesun).

It is the sound effects that is the problem.

The sound effects in this game are output using the same device as the music. Many games with MT-32 music use adlib sound effects and lets you configure both sound and music independently in the installer. Ultima Underworld doesn't. The second sound option in the installer is only for the voices.

So my guess is that your version of Ultima Underworld has this music patch installed, which overrides the MT-32 music files with general midi ones which sound fine through standard Windows. My suggestion is to get a fresh version of Ultima Underworld, such as this one (I've tested it) and set things up again from scratch.

EDIT: In fact, I installed the general midi music patch on a fresh install of Ultima Underworld and the sound is fucked up like you've been experiencing. Also, setting the midiconfig=1 with this music patch results in the general midi being sent to MUNT, causing really fucked up sound and music as the MT-32 isn't a GM device. Setting midiconfig=0 sends the general midi to the Windows software synthesizer, sounding far better, but with fucked up sound effects (throwing items against walls results in a cartoon-like "ding", for example, and footsteps sound like piano notes).

So basically if you do have that music patch installed then that's your problem right there. If you've obtained your game from GOG.com then I can't say whether they included the patch or not as I don't own it on there. My guess is they did include the patch, as that's the only way to provide half-decent sound to GOG users who probably don't have MT-32 roms.

So basically:
1) Install a fresh copy of Ultima Underworld from the above link.
2) Set midiconfig=1 again.
3) Play the game in all its (emulated) MT-32 glory.

Oh yeah, and make sure you use the CM-32 roms and not the standard MT-32 roms as I believe the game uses the extra sound effects.

 

[octavius]

I bought the GOG version and the sound files are dated 1993, while the patched files are dated 1998, so I think we can rule out the music patch.
As for using the CM-32 Roms instead of the MT-32 ones, all non-torrent (I'm not about to start with that kind of shit) download links lead to sites that want you to install their malware, so I think I'll just have to suffer the pathetic soundblaster sound effects (funny how DOOM could have such awesome Soundblaster sound effects only a year later).