Ultima The Ultima Underworld I & II Thread

[octavius]

I tried to replay this game 2-3 years ago, but after having played modern games like Oblivion and Dark Messiah I couldn't stomach the small play window, the blocky graphics and the rather cumbersome controls.
But after having been in retro mode for 1.5 years, only playing games older than UU, the game suddenly looked quite impressive when I recently revisited it again.
It certainly was a revolutionary game compared to for example Black Crypt that was released for the Amiga at about the same time. Black Crypt has better sound (the only weak part of UU), but is otherwise a "poor man's Ultima Underworld".
(I suspect the Amiga fanboys hyped Black Crypt due to it being Amiga only, and because Dungeon Master and Chaos Strikes Back was developed on the Atari ST.)

In theory it should be possible to get good sound for UU, though, if you had a Roland sound card.
I tried to emulate the Roland sound card as discussed in this post at GOG, but to no avail. Despite getting the two needed ROMs, the game still plays piano sound when walking.
People claim it's possible to get Roland sound, but the only examples of the Roland sound I've found is the music from the intro, including a video from our own Jaesun. I sure would like to hear how the Roland sounds when walking, fighting and swimming in Ultima Underworld.

 

[GreyViper]

I find it easier to return to UU if I play a bit Dagerfall before it, then the transition is easier, still I like UU2 best.

 

[Sceptic]

In theory it should be possible to get good sound for UU, though, if you had a Roland sound card.

If you specifically have the Roland CM-32L (or derivative) then sound in UW1 is AWESOME, as the game uses some of the sound effect banks specific to that module.

People claim it's possible to get Roland sound, but the only examples of the Roland sound I've found is the music from the intro, including a video from our own Jaesun. I sure would like to hear how the Roland sounds when walking, fighting and swimming in Ultima Underworld.

If Jaesun hasn't done it by the time I'm less busy, I'll do some recordings. But you should be able to get reasonable emulation with DOSBox SVN and the CM-32L ROMs. If you search for posts by me that mention the SVN you should find links and some basic instructions on getting it to work.

 

[MMXI]

In theory it should be possible to get good sound for UU, though, if you had a Roland sound card.
I tried to emulate the Roland sound card as discussed in this post at GOG, but to no avail. Despite getting the two needed ROMs, the game still plays piano sound when walking.
People claim it's possible to get Roland sound, but the only examples of the Roland sound I've found is the music from the intro, including a video from our own Jaesun. I sure would like to hear how the Roland sounds when walking, fighting and swimming in Ultima Underworld.

The music works perfectly for me using new versions of MUNT. It sounds gorgeous in fact. Don't bother using custom DOSBox builds with built in support though. MT-32 emulation should ideally be completely independent of whatever emulator you're using. With MUNT set up correctly you can even use it in ScummVM as it has a terrible old version of MUNT built in to it.

Anyway, just follow my instructions in this post: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/might-and-magic-7-9.65635/page-2#post-1841646

 

[octavius]

In theory it should be possible to get good sound for UU, though, if you had a Roland sound card.
I tried to emulate the Roland sound card as discussed in this post at GOG, but to no avail. Despite getting the two needed ROMs, the game still plays piano sound when walking.
People claim it's possible to get Roland sound, but the only examples of the Roland sound I've found is the music from the intro, including a video from our own Jaesun. I sure would like to hear how the Roland sounds when walking, fighting and swimming in Ultima Underworld.

The music works perfectly for me using new versions of MUNT. It sounds gorgeous in fact. Don't bother using custom DOSBox builds with built in support though. MT-32 emulation should ideally be completely independent of whatever emulator you're using. With MUNT set up correctly you can even use it in ScummVM as it has a terrible old version of MUNT built in to it.

Anyway, just follow my instructions in this post: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/might-and-magic-7-9.65635/page-2#post-1841646

Actually I don't care about the music. And besides Windows can emulate the Roland music. At least the music sounds much better if choosing Roland instead of Soundblaster from the UU config file/program. It is the sound effects that is the problem.
I followed your instructions, and typing "mixer/listmidi" says:
0 "Microsoft GS Wavetable SW Synth"
1 "MT-32 Synth Emulator"

So I edited the UU dosbox.config to use midi config 1. But when starting the game the result was the excact same as described in the link in my original post - piano music when walking.
However, this time the sdtout.txt says:
"MT32:Couldn't find control files
MIDI:Can't open device:mt32 with config:."

I can't see that I've done anything wrong, and the ROMs are obviously the right ones since SVN accepts them and installing the driver with mt32emu_drv_GUI.exe doesn't produce any error messages. And I can choose the MT32 Emulation from the Midi tab of the Windows Sound Properties, and set MT32 to be the default.

Only things I can think of that may possibly affect things:
I don't have a dedicated sound card, just a cheap integrated sound card called "CMUAC Speaker".
I don't have speakers, but use head phones with an USB connection.

And I'm still puzzled by what's the big deal about the Roland music. I can't hear any difference from the music in Jaesun's video and the music produced by the Windows midi system. But I hear a dramatic difference for the worse when switching over to Soundblaster to play the music.

 

[MMXI]

And besides Windows can emulate the Roland music.

No it can't. All Windows can do for you is play general midi through its really bad sound canvas wavetable. Windows doesn't emulate the MT-32, which is what Ultima Underworld uses (if you don't select adlib/sound blaster). You need MUNT for that, or that custom build of DOSBox which includes MUNT. Or, of course, a real MT-32 compatible device (fuck you Sceptic and Jaesun).

It is the sound effects that is the problem.

The sound effects in this game are output using the same device as the music. Many games with MT-32 music use adlib sound effects and lets you configure both sound and music independently in the installer. Ultima Underworld doesn't. The second sound option in the installer is only for the voices.

So my guess is that your version of Ultima Underworld has this music patch installed, which overrides the MT-32 music files with general midi ones which sound fine through standard Windows. My suggestion is to get a fresh version of Ultima Underworld, such as this one (I've tested it) and set things up again from scratch.

EDIT: In fact, I installed the general midi music patch on a fresh install of Ultima Underworld and the sound is fucked up like you've been experiencing. Also, setting the midiconfig=1 with this music patch results in the general midi being sent to MUNT, causing really fucked up sound and music as the MT-32 isn't a GM device. Setting midiconfig=0 sends the general midi to the Windows software synthesizer, sounding far better, but with fucked up sound effects (throwing items against walls results in a cartoon-like "ding", for example, and footsteps sound like piano notes).

So basically if you do have that music patch installed then that's your problem right there. If you've obtained your game from GOG.com then I can't say whether they included the patch or not as I don't own it on there. My guess is they did include the patch, as that's the only way to provide half-decent sound to GOG users who probably don't have MT-32 roms.

So basically:
1) Install a fresh copy of Ultima Underworld from the above link.
2) Set midiconfig=1 again.
3) Play the game in all its (emulated) MT-32 glory.

Oh yeah, and make sure you use the CM-32 roms and not the standard MT-32 roms as I believe the game uses the extra sound effects.

 

[octavius]

I bought the GOG version and the sound files are dated 1993, while the patched files are dated 1998, so I think we can rule out the music patch.
As for using the CM-32 Roms instead of the MT-32 ones, all non-torrent (I'm not about to start with that kind of shit) download links lead to sites that want you to install their malware, so I think I'll just have to suffer the pathetic soundblaster sound effects (funny how DOOM could have such awesome Soundblaster sound effects only a year later).

 

[octavius]

I find it easier to return to UU if I play a bit Dagerfall before it, then the transition is easier,

You think Daggerfall is more primitive?

still I like UU2 best.

Technically it's better, with a larger view area, but some of the worlds are rather silly.

 

[MMXI]

I bought the GOG version and the sound files are dated 1993, while the patched files are dated 1998, so I think we can rule out the music patch.
As for using the CM-32 Roms instead of the MT-32 ones, all non-torrent (I'm not about to start with that kind of shit) download links lead to sites that want you to install their malware, so I think I'll just have to suffer the pathetic soundblaster sound effects (funny how DOOM could have such awesome Soundblaster sound effects only a year later).

I'm quite sure that it does come with the music patch because I read on the GOG wiki that their Ultima Underworld is set up to use the MT-32 by default. Without an emulator it'll play as GM and it sounds absolutely woeful without the GM music patch.

Regarding the difference between MT-32 music and default GM crap through Windows, here's a comparison of the song you hear on the map. The GM version uses the GM patch, of course, as without it the music sounds even worse.
http://www.filedropper.com/ultimaunderworldmusic

Which one of these are you hearing in game?

EDIT: You're right. I've just obtained the GOG version and it doesn't use the music patch. It sounds dreadful as expected. I can't believe you can't hear the difference as it's like night and day. Perhaps you haven't set things up correctly?

EDIT 2: Ah, it seems I also get the piano footsteps when playing without an MT-32 emulator. I also get the piano footsteps when playing with the GM music patch. In fact, the only two cases in which I don't get piano footsteps is when playing with SoundBlaster/Adlib or through the MT-32 emulator (MUNT). In other words, I don't think you've set MUNT up correctly. I blame your ROMs. I can confirm that the ones on that popular torrent site work correctly with MUNT. In fact, they may actually be the ones I use!

 

[MMXI]

Okay, I think I may know why you aren't managing to get the MT-32 emulation working with the GOG version of Ultima Underworld. In the DOSBox config files provided by GOG, under the [midi] section, you can see they've changed "midiconfig=" to "config=". If you've been setting "config=1" then DOSBox won't read that value. You need to change "config=1" to "midiconfig=1" for DOSBox to recognise the device. Also, if you've installed MUNT my way you don't need to use any custom built DOSBox. Use the default DOSBox that comes with the games, open the default config files that come with the games, change "config=" to "midiconfig=1" and play.

 

[octavius]

I finally got it to work, by using the regular version of DosBox and the CM32 Roms from TPB (I feel dirty now, but I guess it was worth it)!
Now the water actually sounds like water!
Thanks MMXI.

I didn't need to change the DoxBox config, though, probably because I've set my machine to use MT32 as default midi device from Control Panel -> Sound Properties.

 

[MMXI]

Thanks MMXI.

No problem. Have fun!

I didn't need to change the DoxBox config, though, probably because I've set my machine to use MT32 as default midi device from Control Panel -> Sound Properties.

Yes. It defaults to midiconfig=0, using the first midi device. By changing the default in Windows you're effectively changing the first one. If you were using Windows 7, like I am, I don't think you can change the default midi device at all through Control Panel, so you have to change the midiconfig value in order to get it to work.

 

[octavius]

How do you pronounce Stygian anyway? I thought it the "y" would be pronounced the same as the "y" in Styx, but in the intro the (terrible) voice actor pronunces the "y" like in "pig sty".
And is it common knowledge among english speaking people that Stygian is derived from Styx (it actually means "Styxian")?
I only learnt it recently. I though it was derived from Stygia, a country in Robert E. Howard's Hyborian Age, which I though was yet another recycled mythological country, like Ophir, Vanaheim etc.

 

[Infinitron]

Styg·i·an
adjective /ˈstijēən/ 

Of or relating to the Styx River

Very dark
- the Stygian crypt

 

[MMXI]

How do you pronounce Stygian anyway? I thought it the "y" would be pronounced the same as the "y" in Styx, but in the intro the (terrible) voice actor pronunces the "y" like in "pig sty".
And is it common knowledge among english speaking people that Stygian is derived from Styx (it actually means "Styxian")?
I only learnt it recently. I though it was derived from Stygia, a country in Robert E. Howard's Hyborian Age, which I though was yet another recycled mythological country, like Ophir, Vanaheim etc.

It's definitely stij-ee-uhn as opposed to sty-jee-uhn, sty-gee-uhn or even stig-ee-uhn.

 

[octavius]

Seems Ultima Underworld really is real time, as in time is not compressed. If you play for 20 minutes 20 minutes pass in game. I'm now on lvl 5, it's the 4th day of my imprisonment and I've only slept three times.
Since time is not compressed it means mana recovers quickly, you need food only rarely and sleep even more rarely.
Could the need for sleep being so infrequent become a problem, seeing as the old bearded geezer (Garamon, I seem to recall his name was after finding a tombstone with that name on it) keeps appearing in your dreams. Will things get messed up if you reach the end before you have received all the dreams from Garamon?

 

[octavius]

Anyone know what armours of "toughness" do? "Protection" is obvious, and so is "Accuracy" and "Damage" for weapons.
I suspect it means an armour's resistance to being damaged by enemies. If so it seems it's better to go for "Protetion", since armours can be repaired.

 

[Gord]

Will things get messed up if you reach the end before you have received all the dreams from Garamon?

You need to see them to figure out some of the things you have to do later in the game (if playing without walkthrough), but I never had problems with timing there. There aren't that many and the important ones are triggered by reaching certain points in the MQ, I think.

About toughness, I might be mistaken, but if I remember correctly then it's a minor increase in armor rating.

 

[octavius]

Hmm...portcullises can be unlocked by keys, both on lvl 5 and in the goblin/troll prison on lvl 7.
Bug or feature?

 

[Sceptic]

Could the need for sleep being so infrequent become a problem, seeing as the old bearded geezer (Garamon, I seem to recall his name was after finding a tombstone with that name on it) keeps appearing in your dreams. Will things get messed up if you reach the end before you have received all the dreams from Garamon?

I don't think you need any of his dreams to actually complete the game. None of them are triggers. UW1 is really good about not having triggers actually; there is only a single set of actions that you can only do after the proper trigger is set, but really, you shouldn't even think of doing them until you've set the trigger anyway.

Hmm...portcullises can be unlocked by keys, both on lvl 5 and in the goblin/troll prison on lvl 7.
Bug or feature?

Pretty sure it's feature. I think some of them HAVE to be in order to make progress, if not in 1 then in 2.

 

[RK47]

Wouldn't force myself to enjoy it too much. It wasn't that great for me. But the sequel certainly did the trick. It had better UI, graphics. Played it till finish, no regrets.

 

[octavius]

Wouldn't force myself to enjoy it too much. It wasn't that great for me. But the sequel certainly did the trick. It had better UI, graphics. Played it till finish, no regrets.

I don't need to force myself to like UU. Except for the need to run all the way back to Shak when I need to repair stuff, and then run back again, I'm enjoying every minute of it. Using the mouse for movement, instead of WASD, works surprisingly well, despite lack of mouse look. Elazair complained about clunky controls in his Let's Play, and he seems to have used the keyboard for moving and jumping. But using the mouse becomes second nature after a while, and after cranking up mouse sensitivity to 200 in the DosBox config, the controls become very intuitive.

Pretty sure it's feature. I think some of them HAVE to be in order to make progress, if not in 1 then in 2.

It does seem rather silly to be able to use a key on the portcullises on lvl 7, when all dialogue with the inmates suggest you are trapped and the only escape is via the escape tunnel that leads to lava. OTOH, I think the game assumes you didn't kill all the guards to get the key. Still, it is silly to use keys on a portcullis that doesn't have a lock.

 

[octavius]

Damned, Ultima Underworld is still a mighty fine game.
I'm almost sad it's over, but I have UU2 to look forward to.

And I'm pleased to say that I encountered no bugs (except the spiders, that is) in this playthrough. No items going missing, and no error messages whatsoever.

 

[Sceptic]

The missing item bugs got fixed by one of the patches, most versions you find nowadays include it. Congrats on finishing it, glad you enjoyed. It really is a mighty good game.

 

[MMXI]

Damned, Ultima Underworld is still a mighty fine game.
I'm almost sad it's over, but I have UU2 to look forward to.

And I'm pleased to say that I encountered no bugs (except the spiders, that is) in this playthrough. No items going missing, and no error messages whatsoever.

I hope you enjoyed the sound!