4X The Unsurpassed Brian Reynolds' Alpha Centauri thread

[DesolationStone]

Vanilla or mods?

PRACX (for improve graphics) and Yitzi's Patch
I tried to install Thinker mod but I failed
Now i'm reading for the second time "Red Mars" of K.S.Robinson, the novel who inspired Firaxis for the main plot of the game

 

[Endemic]

I played Call to Power 2. It was stupid as hell. Undetectable ecoterrorists erasing entire cities at will, unstoppable globullshit warming, etc. At one stage, I deleted all mines in all cities and my city screens are still telling me I am contributing a lot of pollution. Fucking greenie bullshit.

Can't speak for CTP2, I only own the first one.

Just to be clear, I don't think CTP was perfect, but rather it brought some additions to the Civ II formula (ie the orbital layer, the public works mechanic, changes to trade) that are worth keeping. It's no coincidence that the best parts of CTP clearly follow in the spirit of SMAC.

 

[Ulysa]

I've been recently forced into Civ VI multiplayer and here I am remembering every turn how amazing AC was, how cool were the factions and wondering why the hell I have to worry about religion, like who chooses Miriam?

 

[Ulysa]

I've been recently forced into Civ VI multiplayer and here I am remembering every turn how amazing AC was, how cool were the factions and wondering why the hell I have to worry about religion, like who chooses Miriam?

Religion was a neat idea in Civ IV, too bad they went full PC and made them all pretty much the same. Which was super boring

I just dislike the idea of having to choose a religion to fight other religions, maybe I'm missing something, but I would like to fight religion with science.

 

[JBro]

I just dislike the idea of having to choose a religion to fight other religions, maybe I'm missing something, but I would like to fight religion with science.

Throughout history, religion has furthered scientific efforts.

 

[Xamenos]

I just dislike the idea of having to choose a religion to fight other religions, maybe I'm missing something, but I would like to fight religion with science.

Iirc, Civ 4 had a government policy that made you have no state religion and gave you extra science. You could use it to opt out of the religion competition, if you wanted.

 

[Cael]

I've been recently forced into Civ VI multiplayer and here I am remembering every turn how amazing AC was, how cool were the factions and wondering why the hell I have to worry about religion, like who chooses Miriam?

Religion was a neat idea in Civ IV, too bad they went full PC and made them all pretty much the same. Which was super boring

They are all exactly the same, not just pretty much. At least in 3, you have Fundamentalism, which gave you a cheap suicide unit in return for a bunch of negatives.

 

[Kalin]

That bland atrocity Civ 3 actually removed fundamentalism and its free fanatic unit you got in Civilization II. Seemed to me at the time they nuked it because it was deemed "offensive" in light of 9/11 which was orchestrated just a month or two preceding its release. Massive decline all around (like the game in general) and mighty ironic since Alpha Centauri is perhaps the most unadulterated and honest depiction of human civilization and the ruthless nature of our elites that has yet to be released. Civ 3 is such a massive step down from SMAC it astounds me anyone could play it after experiencing the former.

 

[Cael]

That bland atrocity Civ 3 actually removed fundamentalism and its free fanatic unit you got in Civilization II. Seemed to me at the time they nuked it because it was deemed "offensive" in light of 9/11 which was orchestrated just a month or two preceding its release. Massive decline all around (like the game in general) and mighty ironic since Alpha Centauri is perhaps the most unadulterated and honest depiction of human civilization and the ruthless nature of our elites that has yet to be released. Civ 3 is such a massive step down from SMAC it astounds me anyone could play it after experiencing the former.

Oh, opps! Must have been Civ2, then. Dang. I play all three so much, I get them mixed up.

I have always thought the SMAC leaders were a bit too caricatures of what they were supposed to represent. Like their trope taken up to 11.

 

[Johannes]

That's the point lah

 

[Xamenos]

That bland atrocity Civ 3 actually removed fundamentalism and its free fanatic unit you got in Civilization II. Seemed to me at the time they nuked it because it was deemed "offensive" in light of 9/11 which was orchestrated just a month or two preceding its release. Massive decline all around (like the game in general) and mighty ironic since Alpha Centauri is perhaps the most unadulterated and honest depiction of human civilization and the ruthless nature of our elites that has yet to be released. Civ 3 is such a massive step down from SMAC it astounds me anyone could play it after experiencing the former.

As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth's final century, free flow of information is the only safeguard against tyranny. The once-chained people whose leaders at last lose their grip on information flow will soon burst with freedom and vitality, but the free nation gradually constricting its grip on public discourse has begun its rapid slide into despotism. Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he deems himself your master.

One of the quotes that struck me when I first saw it, and that is becoming increasingly relevant nowadays. The game was downright prescient at times.

Somewhat, but even then there was nuance. Miriam seems like a religious luddite at first, but her intro blurb deconstructs this.

And it's not just her intro blurb. If you actually stop and think about how the late-game societies function for the average citizen, you quickly realise her "We must dissent" rants were pretty on point.

 

[Cael]

As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth's final century, free flow of information is the only safeguard against tyranny. The once-chained people whose leaders at last lose their grip on information flow will soon burst with freedom and vitality, but the free nation gradually constricting its grip on public discourse has begun its rapid slide into despotism. Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he deems himself your master.

One of the quotes that struck me when I first saw it, and that is becoming increasingly relevant nowadays. The game was downright prescient at times.

Well, Lal's quotes are all about peace and harmony, until you deny him what he wants and he will then invade you in the name of peace and harmony. I have always viewed Lal as the ultimate sjw leftard cunt, and he is always my first target for extermination.

At least all the other leaders are honest about their brand of totalitarianism.

 

[chuft]

I think Miriam is correct that all things human are inherently flawed, and humans do not have the wisdom to deal with the things their intelligence makes possible.

Unfortunately Miriam and her followers are as flawed as everybody else, so it doesn't really solve the problem, since they simply put God as the author of their ideas, and thus believe they alone are right, because something perfect is actually behind their stance. Of course this falls down if God is actually a creation of the flawed humans, just like atomic bombs, AI, and bioweapons. She refers to an "angry God" waiting past the last theorem, which is very Old Testamenty/Tree of Knowledge. It's hard to imagine a less perfect version of God than the one responsible for the genocide of the Canaanites etc. Joshua's defense? "I was just following orders." The cycle repeats, inevitably.

I think Lal's quote has to do with classified information and the military industrial complex, not social media companies cutting off access to lies, which are of course not information, but just garbage data.

 

[chuft]

My modding of SMAC began with turning the Believers into something else. That was before SMACX let you just add more factions.

 

[Cael]

I think Lal's quote has to do with classified information and the military industrial complex, not social media companies cutting off access to lies, which are of course not information, but just garbage data.

Yes, yes, yes. "My truth is the only truth; everything else is lies." Typical intolerant sjw cuntism.

 

[Lagi]

Any one know if there are any UI mods? [ or graphic mods]

As I understand this is just high effort mock up

 

[Nutria]

People are thinking too hard about this. Sister Miriam was the strawman for Southern Baptists in that era. This is a religion that is not my favorite but I still feel a little bit conflicted about how they were presented. That faction is presented as purely hypocritical which I don't think is fair. Those people at that time were mostly hypocritical but they had their moments.

 

[L'ennui]

I don't agree that the faction is so simplistic in either its presentation to the player or in its underlying philosophy. Quite a few quotes convey a thoughtful, worried leader that is thinking hard about the implications of all this new weirdness for basic human existence, of course couched in biblical language and metaphors. They're religious fundamentalists, but not dumb ones.

 

[chuft]

Note Lal's quote about control of information refers to "the Americans" and Miriam is from "the Christian States of America" so I think it's clear his warning is about right wing censorship - book burning, removal of books from libraries, trying to shut down pornography etc.

 

[Xamenos]

Note Lal's quite about control of information refers to "the Americans" and Miriam is from "the Christian States of America" so I think it's clear his warning is about right wing censorship - book burning, removal of books from libraries, trying to shut down pornography etc.

Perhaps that's what happened in Alpha Centauri's timeline, but it's applicable for any kind of censorship. Right wing, left wing, or otherwise, no matter if you agree with the censor's views or not, you should still beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he deems himself your master.

 

[Absinthe]

People are thinking too hard about this. Sister Miriam was the strawman for Southern Baptists in that era. This is a religion that is not my favorite but I still feel a little bit conflicted about how they were presented. That faction is presented as purely hypocritical which I don't think is fair. Those people at that time were mostly hypocritical but they had their moments.

Miriam isn't presented as hypocritical. Later on in the game she's pretty much the sole voice of reason while everyone else is busy making Self-Aware Colonies and doing other insane shit. She is, however, presented as a radical. And her in-game faction is hyper-aggressive unless you're running Fundamentalism or bribing the shit out of her, which tends to make a lot of players hate Believers since they will invariably be a pain in your ass trying to murder you.

Note Lal's quite about control of information refers to "the Americans" and Miriam is from "the Christian States of America" so I think it's clear his warning is about right wing censorship - book burning, removal of books from libraries, trying to shut down pornography etc.

I think there was an implication that the USA had fractured into parts, not that the entire country turned into fundamentalist christians.

 

[chuft]

I don't think there's any such implication. I think the implication is that the fundamentalists took over the country.

Incidentally the full text of Journey to Centauri, the story of the Unity's flight, which used to be on the Firaxis site, is now here

https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Journey_to_Centauri_(SMAC)

 

[Absinthe]

It's never really spelled out clearly either way but there appears to have been both a USA and a CSA in SMAC, although the SMAC website just lists Miriam as being from USA.

 

[Absinthe]

https://alphacentauri2.info/official/Profile Sister Miriam Godwinson.htm

 

[Cael]

Note Lal's quote about control of information refers to "the Americans" and Miriam is from "the Christian States of America" so I think it's clear his warning is about right wing censorship - book burning, removal of books from libraries, trying to shut down pornography etc.

And yet the only ones doing book burnings and removal of books from society (let alone libraries) today are leftwing cunts.