4X The Unsurpassed Brian Reynolds' Alpha Centauri thread

[Average Manatee]

I just want a 4x with even more terraforming.

 

[Cael]

"Resources exist to be consumed. And consumed they will be, if not by this generation then by some future. By what right does this forgotten future seek to deny us our birthright? None I say! Let us take what is ours, chew and eat our fill."
- CEO Nwabudike Morgan, "The Ethics of Greed"

"Don't be transphobic. Be intolerant of difference. Kill the fatphobes! Believe all wymmyn!!!"
- every fucking present day game developer

 

[Cael]

I just want a 4x with even more terraforming.

Call to Power 2 is your game, then.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

Yes, it is absolutely impossible to replicate today, because it was made in the tail end of bygone era where games could be made by people versed in history, philosophy, hard sci-fi, people who read literature and watched movies for adults. Replicating the writing and world-building of Alpha Centauri today would be like asking Somalians to build a space rocket, the basis is just not there.

Yeah. I’ve noticed that modern scifi peaked in the 90s and everything since has been crap.

 

[oldbonebrown]

Thoughts about recycling tanks and when to build them?

 

[Average Manatee]

Thoughts about recycling tanks and when to build them?

Recycling tanks are 40 minerals and produce 1/1/1.

Rec commons are 40 minerals and save 2 pops from being drones. If those two pops work forests its 2/4/2 (or 2/4/4 w/ +2 economy). With only 1 pop its 1/2/1 or 1/2/2 w/ economy. There is 1 energy upkeep. Generally build rec commons before recycling tanks if you can save even one pop from needing to be a doctor.

Colony pods are 30 minerals, you get 10 back immediately to spend on a unit (assuming support isn't -2), and produces 2/1/1 or 2/1/2 w/ +1 economy. You do temporarily lose a pop at the place you built the pod but get it back when it deploys. Generally this can be said to be an advantage because its easier to control drones across multiple smaller bases, but if you're trying to get to 5 pop to unlock specialists it is a downside since each pop is more expensive in food to produce than the previous.

Generally the strat is to focus colony pods and use that to keep your base pop low enough that you don't really need rec commons for a while. Everything else aside from formers and a token defense/police force can wait until you've reached some kind of natural limit to expansion. DO remember to rush rec commons if you have one base that is going to be stuck for 40 turns making an SP, it's gonna grow in the meantime and you'll have a lot of useless doctors that actually make it take longer going straight for the SP as opposed to planning for growth. And rush the recycling tanks there too since it will pay off in the timeframe that the SP completes.

I don't think anything else really competes since most of the rest are multipliers that are only efficient after you've grown a good amount of pop.

 

[imajia]

I tried Pirates and they really seem kind of shit.

Spoiler

1. Sea mining as already discussed is shit. You basically have no minerals even with the Pirates boost. Additionally foil chassis then makes every unit 2x as expensive. So realistically its like you're taking a -50 to -66% mineral nerf compared to other factions, which gets much worse compared to bases with boreholes/mineral resources. This also means you can't really get SPs, at least in Thinker mod where AI is relatively competent at them.

2. The only upside I can find is that planting seaweed is awesome. Its quick (5 turns), it spreads automatically, it's 3 food base and 4 food with an aqua farm. That's much better than farm + condensor (16 turns total).

3. Unfortunately you have -1 efficiency. This pretty much nukes your ability to collect energy from squares once you've expanded (and you need to expand a lot). In my game I spent a lot of former time placing tidal harnesses that was wasted. I think you want to pretty much just do seaweed past the first few bases and grow grow grow.

4. You need to take a *lot* of territory to keep up. You're running full specialists only and buying everything you have with credits.

5. You kind of really need the SPs that give -drones or +talents to avoid revolts before you get crawlers. Because you need to be size 5 to run specialists, and then you need to feed size 5, and do it without drone revolts. And you have a cool -1 growth to slow your growth towards size 5 as well.

6. Unfortunately with double cost supply crawlers your ability to snowball once you get them is screwed hard.

7. Your seaweed is stuck at 4 food, so you can't really develop past that. This means each base needs more space, which means you have to simultaneously ICS while also spreading out further.

Do I think I can win? Yes, I kept even with Deidre on tech (who is assblasting the entire rest of the map). But with basically any land-based faction playing 100% economy the whole game I'd be swamping her, and beating AIs in wars isn't really proof of a good faction just that you understand how to beat AIs in wars.

Cyborgs definitely seem the most broken (excluding the aliens).

Drones are good IMO because the economic development just swamps everything. Having 25% more bases or 25% more infrastructure will make up a -20% research penalty, and you can always trade/steal/war for techs. -1 drones automatically is always great pretty much all the time whether you're conquering or just trying to power up economically. AI might suck in vanilla though but I expect they'd do well in Thinker. Though a lot probably comes down to initial tech choices, Deidre seems to take off every game because she starts with Ecology and I bet that everyone else suffers in relation to how slowly the AI is to research that tech.

At least in vanilla SMAX I find it quite easy to win with the pirates:

- build sea bases only with either 2+ resources or on the coast on an island (to build boreholes later) - don't build only seabase
- you can pop pods like crazy. Which will give you a lot of money to rush build or artefacts to rush SPs/Techs
- they grow like weed. Together with rush buying you can plaster the map with your bases
- if you go green you can make use of the native naval units

If anything, they are a nice variation of the other factions. Base defence sucks, though.

 

[flyingjohn]

Anybody have kyrub's last patch? Wayback has only the older versions.

 

[codexian reject]

Thoughts about recycling tanks and when to build them?

Recycling tanks are 40 minerals and produce 1/1/1.

Rec commons are 40 minerals and save 2 pops from being drones. If those two pops work forests its 2/4/2 (or 2/4/4 w/ +2 economy). With only 1 pop its 1/2/1 or 1/2/2 w/ economy. There is 1 energy upkeep. Generally build rec commons before recycling tanks if you can save even one pop from needing to be a doctor. cost one upkeep, so it saves 3 energy allocated to psych and 1/1/1 is worth more than 0/0/3. Once you have many bases and you start growing them then RC is worth it in bases with less than average energy output instead of doctors, or if you can popboom thanks to them, or if a new base starts with a drone due to bureaucracy.

Fixed. Spamming few colony pods from each newly founded base is a priority in early game, build formers and recycling tanks before colony pods only if they'd significantly increase the speed at which you can spam colony pods due to low, or unbalanced nutrients and mineral output.

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

Anybody have kyrub's last patch? Wayback has only the older versions.

Do you remember its number? Recently, I have been finding A BUNCH of old stuff in my old laptop's hd. I might have it somewhere.

 

[flyingjohn]

Anybody have kyrub's last patch? Wayback has only the older versions.

Do you remember its number? Recently, I have been finding A BUNCH of old stuff in my old laptop's hd. I might have it somewhere.

It was the p version. Web backups are mostly the m version.

 

[Silva]

Thoughts about recycling tanks and when to build them?

Recycling tanks are 40 minerals and produce 1/1/1.

Rec commons are 40 minerals and save 2 pops from being drones. If those two pops work forests its 2/4/2 (or 2/4/4 w/ +2 economy). With only 1 pop its 1/2/1 or 1/2/2 w/ economy. There is 1 energy upkeep. Generally build rec commons before recycling tanks if you can save even one pop from needing to be a doctor.

Colony pods are 30 minerals, you get 10 back immediately to spend on a unit (assuming support isn't -2), and produces 2/1/1 or 2/1/2 w/ +1 economy. You do temporarily lose a pop at the place you built the pod but get it back when it deploys. Generally this can be said to be an advantage because its easier to control drones across multiple smaller bases, but if you're trying to get to 5 pop to unlock specialists it is a downside since each pop is more expensive in food to produce than the previous.

Generally the strat is to focus colony pods and use that to keep your base pop low enough that you don't really need rec commons for a while. Everything else aside from formers and a token defense/police force can wait until you've reached some kind of natural limit to expansion. DO remember to rush rec commons if you have one base that is going to be stuck for 40 turns making an SP, it's gonna grow in the meantime and you'll have a lot of useless doctors that actually make it take longer going straight for the SP as opposed to planning for growth. And rush the recycling tanks there too since it will pay off in the timeframe that the SP completes.

I don't think anything else really competes since most of the rest are multipliers that are only efficient after you've grown a good amount of pop.

In other words, playing wide (rather than tall) is the optimal strat, just like in Civ2. This is an area I wish SMAC was more flexible.

 

[Silva]

Btw, Thinker mod v4.3 is out..

Thinker mod version 4.3 is now available from the project homepage. This release provides many stability fixes while also adding a couple of minor features. Note that the map generator requires larger maps when adding multiple similar landmarks or else they will be skipped if not enough space is available. If you are not familiar with this mod before, see Details.md to get a complete overview of the features.

There's also discord here for mod related discussions.

• Random map generator allows placing multiple similar landmarks when the related option value is greater than one.
• Modify Mind Control probe action to only subvert units inside the base and not on adjacent tiles to balance for the relatively cheap cost for this action.
• Modify Total Thought Control probe action so that the AI will not always sneak attack. This action can be still used to subvert bases without declaring war but it applies a notable diplomatic penalty between the factions.
• Many changes on AI diplomacy code related to tech trading, energy loans, base swaps and threats to cancel the current alliance.
• Add options modify_upgrade_cost, normal_elite_moves and native_elite_moves.
• Add possibility to scroll the prototype list in design workshop with the mouse wheel.
• Change energy market crash event icon to genwarning_sm.pcx while previously it was markbm_sm.pcx.
• Fix reactivating skipped units not working for aircraft units that have not moved.
• Fix magtube_movement_rate issue with aircraft units when the cost is non-zero.
• Fix chopper movement points being modified when the combat is canceled from the confirmation dialog.
• Fix some game preferences being reset when starting a new game with ignore_reactor_power enabled.
• Fix Mind Control issue when capturing bases that have non-allied units owned by a third faction inside them.
• Fix datalinks window not showing the first character for Sea Formers units.
• Fix issue with event_market_crash option that occurred during turn processing.

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

Anybody have kyrub's last patch? Wayback has only the older versions.

Do you remember its number? Recently, I have been finding A BUNCH of old stuff in my old laptop's hd. I might have it somewhere.

It was the p version. Web backups are mostly the m version.

I will check my old hard drives. Might be here somewhere, unless I don't have it.

Where is the man himself? Last resort, he can just send it to you.

Thoughts about recycling tanks and when to build them?

Recycling tanks are 40 minerals and produce 1/1/1.

Rec commons are 40 minerals and save 2 pops from being drones. If those two pops work forests its 2/4/2 (or 2/4/4 w/ +2 economy). With only 1 pop its 1/2/1 or 1/2/2 w/ economy. There is 1 energy upkeep. Generally build rec commons before recycling tanks if you can save even one pop from needing to be a doctor.

Colony pods are 30 minerals, you get 10 back immediately to spend on a unit (assuming support isn't -2), and produces 2/1/1 or 2/1/2 w/ +1 economy. You do temporarily lose a pop at the place you built the pod but get it back when it deploys. Generally this can be said to be an advantage because its easier to control drones across multiple smaller bases, but if you're trying to get to 5 pop to unlock specialists it is a downside since each pop is more expensive in food to produce than the previous.

Generally the strat is to focus colony pods and use that to keep your base pop low enough that you don't really need rec commons for a while. Everything else aside from formers and a token defense/police force can wait until you've reached some kind of natural limit to expansion. DO remember to rush rec commons if you have one base that is going to be stuck for 40 turns making an SP, it's gonna grow in the meantime and you'll have a lot of useless doctors that actually make it take longer going straight for the SP as opposed to planning for growth. And rush the recycling tanks there too since it will pay off in the timeframe that the SP completes.

I don't think anything else really competes since most of the rest are multipliers that are only efficient after you've grown a good amount of pop.

In other words, playing wide (rather than tall) is the optimal strat, just like in Civ2. This is an area I wish SMAC was more flexible.

CivIII was bad in that respect too, hell I would say it was even worse. Every game was literally a race to see who fills the map with cities faster, which happened in like five minutes.

I think Civiilization IV has an excellent balance in that regard. You want to get 4-6 cities at the start, then build up somewhat, or maintenance is going to eat you alive. From there you can decide to settle more, go tall and tech away or go on a conquest bender, depending on your playstyle.

I would ask about V and VI, but as we know, the Civilization series only had four games (just like Matrix never had any sequels).

To be fair to SMAC, SMAC pre-dates the concepts of Tall vs Wide. SMAC is all about Conquer-Hybrid-Builder.
You have Conqueror civs like Sparta and Believers, and Hive too. Gaians, Hive and Peacekeepers were more hybrids, while Morganites, University and University were builder-focused.
A lot of civs could wear multiple hats in that regard, too - Peacekeepers are "the Mario" of SMAC and can do about anything if you set the civics right, Hive is pretty much good at everything except making bank with energy credits and having high effic, Gaians can both do Worm-rush and settle HUGE territories with their insane effic, University can literally thrown more tech at every problem, etc.

One could say Conquer is Wide, Builder is Tall and Hybrid is in-between, but I don't think that's quite the same.

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

Btw, Thinker mod v4.3 is out..

Thinker mod version 4.3 is now available from the project homepage. This release provides many stability fixes while also adding a couple of minor features. Note that the map generator requires larger maps when adding multiple similar landmarks or else they will be skipped if not enough space is available. If you are not familiar with this mod before, see Details.md to get a complete overview of the features.

There's also discord here for mod related discussions.

• Random map generator allows placing multiple similar landmarks when the related option value is greater than one.
• Modify Mind Control probe action to only subvert units inside the base and not on adjacent tiles to balance for the relatively cheap cost for this action.
• Modify Total Thought Control probe action so that the AI will not always sneak attack. This action can be still used to subvert bases without declaring war but it applies a notable diplomatic penalty between the factions.
• Many changes on AI diplomacy code related to tech trading, energy loans, base swaps and threats to cancel the current alliance.
• Add options modify_upgrade_cost, normal_elite_moves and native_elite_moves.
• Add possibility to scroll the prototype list in design workshop with the mouse wheel.
• Change energy market crash event icon to genwarning_sm.pcx while previously it was markbm_sm.pcx.
• Fix reactivating skipped units not working for aircraft units that have not moved.
• Fix magtube_movement_rate issue with aircraft units when the cost is non-zero.
• Fix chopper movement points being modified when the combat is canceled from the confirmation dialog.
• Fix some game preferences being reset when starting a new game with ignore_reactor_power enabled.
• Fix Mind Control issue when capturing bases that have non-allied units owned by a third faction inside them.
• Fix datalinks window not showing the first character for Sea Formers units.
• Fix issue with event_market_crash option that occurred during turn processing.

Incline! I ought to install SMAC sometime, its always a fixture in every computer I ever own.

I wonder if there's any version of Binary Dawn or a similar mod using Thinker, could be great for multi.

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

flyingjohn I THINK I found it. It's a ZIP file named smac444_p with only a terran.exe inside, dated 20/07/2017. I have uploaded it to my mediafire.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/6tg00egxc16yrxi/smac444_p.zip/file

Damned good luck I was looking at my old files recently. I hope it is the right file.

Have fun, dude!

 

[flyingjohn]

flyingjohn I THINK I found it. It's a ZIP file named smac444_p with only a terran.exe inside, dated 20/07/2017. I have uploaded it to my mediafire.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/6tg00egxc16yrxi/smac444_p.zip/file

Damned good luck I was looking at my old files recently. I hope it is the right file.

Have fun, dude!

Codex to the rescue again. Thanks from both me and Blake for this find.
I have uploaded a backup to MEGA because mediafire likes to delete files:
https://mega.nz/file/gXIEEIKZ#JJCx6Xyr2gaEAPZAFmSRdlwT8gg3hQ5HPSVfaIiBm4A

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

flyingjohn I THINK I found it. It's a ZIP file named smac444_p with only a terran.exe inside, dated 20/07/2017. I have uploaded it to my mediafire.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/6tg00egxc16yrxi/smac444_p.zip/file

Damned good luck I was looking at my old files recently. I hope it is the right file.

Have fun, dude!

Codex to the rescue again. Thanks from both me and Blake for this find.
I have uploaded a backup to MEGA because mediafire likes to delete files:
https://mega.nz/file/gXIEEIKZ#JJCx6Xyr2gaEAPZAFmSRdlwT8gg3hQ5HPSVfaIiBm4A

Mediafire likes to delete files? Do tell more.

I stopped trusting Mega since they deleted over a decade worth of stored things. I am VERY lucky that I found everything backed up in my old laptop, thanks to Megasync.

 

[flyingjohn]

Mediafire likes to delete files? Do tell more.

Their antivirus detection is iffy and will block/delete files on a whim. PLus, mega files seem to last longer if there is no piracy involved.

 

[Induktio]

I wonder if there's any version of Binary Dawn or a similar mod using Thinker, could be great for multi.

I can't remember now separately testing Binary Dawn, what was the most recent version? I suppose it contained only txt changes for the game? If that is the case then all of the same changes should still be supported by Thinker. In any case it's possible to send bug reports if there's something missing.

 

[ghardy]

It's been a long while since I played this excellent game. Seeing it on sale for so cheap on Steam, I got it.

Is there such a thing as a beginner's faction? Or should I try each one at a time?

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

It's been a long while since I played this excellent game. Seeing it on sale for so cheap on Steam, I got it.

Is there such a thing as a beginner's faction? Or should I try each one at a time?

I recommend downloading Thinker mod for better AI.

I would say Gaians are the beginner faction. Explore, get worms, use worms to explore and fight early on.

Spartans are pretty beginner-friendly as well. Build colonies, find nearby player, build armed rovers, go kill them and take their shit.

 

[Average Manatee]

All the (SMAC) factions are fine for beginners and can be fairly flexible at either war or peaceful development. Just make sure to get centauri ecology quickly (Gaians do start with it) and figure out a terraforming plan.

I would recommend Thinker, but be sure to play on a low difficulty because it makes the AI actually reasonably competent at terraforming and base spamming which makes things like 2 or 3 levels harder.

 

[ghardy]

Thanks. I'll look into getting the Thinker mod.

I gather there are some unofficial patches to improve stability and fix bugs. Is the version on Steam patched? I've had two hangs/freezes/crashes till now.

This is such a great game. I quickly realized the oft-read truism about playing for just one more turn!

 

[ghardy]

Mea culpa. It turns out I spoke too soon.

Thinker packages some of the stability patches besides doing its own enhancements.