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The Valve and Steam Platform Discussion Thread

Morgoth

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If you buy shit from Greenmangaming or Amazon, you also get almost always a Steam key provided. There is no way around Steam buddy.
So Origin, Impulse, Gamersgate, etcetera don't exist? You honestly think that a more open system would not create a more competitive environment (as new stores can fight for market share without having to sit in your taskbar) that would benefit the consumer (by always getting the best price)? How retarded are you?

An open system owned by whom? Who profits from it then? This is not how business works. Get over yourself already. Valve developed Steam, and they're selling shit on their system. Why should they share that infrastructure with their competitors for free?
 

Morgoth

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A) There is a cult of personality around Gaben. All of this is based around marketing, where gaben is presented as a fat nerd so hardcore gamers will like him. You like to think that the guy running a billion-dollar business is looking out for you interests. The fact that this is so obvious and people fall for it is sad.

Gabe is not CliffyB. He's not an attention whore, his "fans" are just making him into this celebrity. Gabe himself doesn't really give a damn about publicity. The guy only gives maybee 1-2 interviews per year.

B) Everyone gives a pass on Valve over shit they would never forgive another company. Horse armour pissed everyone off, but TF2 hats are fine!

In either case, nobody forces you to buy that shit. "Fans" want hats, Valve provides.

C) Steam is one of the most offending forms of DRM. With GoG, you just download the installer and do nothing else (you actually own the game!). Afaik Direct 2 Drive, Origin, Gamer's Gate or Impulse don't need to run in the background either. Steam on the other hand does, and it also collects all kinds of data about the way you play all the time (which it may or may not sell to advertisers, to boot).

What's so offending about Steam? Get real, moron. And yes, Origin does require you to run in the background. Impulse has a bloated client, and Gamersgate often provides Steamworks titles as well. Ever thought that developers are just weary and tired of providing patch support to 10 different software SKUs?

The times where patches are uploaded on some shitty servers are over. Black Mesa was a prime example why every single game should be Steam exclusive.

The cognitive dissonance here is the really the astounding part. If EA or Ubisoft or any big publisher pulled this everyone would be going apeshit, but with Valve no one cares. Because Valve is good at marketing.

Nobody goes apeshit about Valve because they're doing DRM right.
 

Darklife

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When you think about it from an economic and logical perspective, the business model that Steam (and all of the other digital delivery platforms) uses is untenable. In the long run it cannot continue to monopolize the entire distribution chain. Other players will get in on the action and eventually the market will become populated enough that having your own proprietary platform will simply not be worth it.

Just like individual farmers don't sell their produce in their own stores, so too will games be sold in some sort of market. It's not that hard to imagine really. It could be a cooperatively run platform or it could be maintaned by an independent party.
 

IDtenT

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If you buy shit from Greenmangaming or Amazon, you also get almost always a Steam key provided. There is no way around Steam buddy.
So Origin, Impulse, Gamersgate, etcetera don't exist? You honestly think that a more open system would not create a more competitive environment (as new stores can fight for market share without having to sit in your taskbar) that would benefit the consumer (by always getting the best price)? How retarded are you?

An open system owned by whom? Who profits from it then? This is not how business works. Get over yourself already. Valve developed Steam, and they're selling shit on their system. Why should they share that infrastructure with their competitors for free?
They're not sharing infrastructure with anyone, much less the competition. All they should be doing is opening up the API so that you can log into and use steam through other 3rd party programs. You know like how MSN messenger, Yahoo messenger, Google Talk, etcetera can be unified and logged into through a 3rd party application.

They don't have to open it up, although I would have loved for them to do so. What I am targeting is GabeN's disingenuous and hypocritical behaviour towards semi-closed platforms, like Windows 8.
 

Achilles

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I don't get the Gaben and Steam hate. Is it a hipster thing, or "fight the power" or something? Steam is by far the least intrusive of every other DRM system (except of course DRM-free which will never happen), plus you can buy a Steamworks game from anywhere and activate it on the service. As for establishing a more open system, Valve has to get something in return you know. They are the ones hosting the games on servers that they pay for, they are the ones providing the services, and if those other stores didn't offer Steamworks games noone would buy from them. Frankly, I find it ludicrous that Valve still doesn't take a cut from Steamworks games sold on other stores.

Thinking that an eventual collapse of Steam would be good for PC gaming is the same extrermely flawed logic that Notch is using. If Steam loses its marketshare or outright disappears, there will be two alteernatives: Buying games directly from the publishers page (oh man, I can't wait to see what new ways they'll find to screw us over with no competition) or console gaming (Steve Ballmer is going to make you his bitch).
 

IDtenT

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As for establishing a more open system, Valve has to get something in return you know. They are the ones hosting the games on servers that they pay for, they are the ones providing the services, and if those other stores didn't offer Steamworks games noone would buy from them.
No one would buy from them? What? So you buy a game because it is on steam, rather than say because you're interested in the game? WTF man?

Yes, Valve may profit less, but I fail to see how they will not get something in return as they will still be selling games - they will just have competition from guys like Origin from within the same interface. You will not be able to download your Origin game though Steam servers. I completely fail to see your train of thought.

What I can however see is that the personality cult still runs well.

I do not have a problem with Steam DRM. I do not have a problem with digital downloading services. I have a problem with monopolistic tendencies, where choice as a consumer is a chore and not a given.
 

Fens

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Black Mesa was a prime example why every single game should be Steam exclusive.
diaf

Nobody goes apeshit about Valve because they're doing DRM right.
actually... the german customer protection agency just filed a complaint about valve's changed eulas... this means valve gets time to react till september 26th or risk being dragged to court and lose there... included in the complaint are concerns about legitimate buyers not being able to enjoy their purchase, just because valve could decide to lock them out of it and valve not acting in accordance with the latest european court rulings concering the sale and purchase of 'used' dowloaded content (they don't allow it)
if you can read kraut, here's the source: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Verbraucherzentrale-mahnt-Valve-ab-1709509.html
 

Gord

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On the other hand, Steam has painted itself (or the industry) into a corner with their frequent sales.
Why buy at (inflated) full-price when the game will be 10, 20, 50% cheaper in a few months or weeks?
Even buying Steam-activated games retail often means you get it cheaper (at least here).

In summary: You shouldn't buy new games on Steam, but use it only for getting discounted shit.

actually... the german customer protection agency just filed a complaint about valve's changed eulas... this means valve gets time to react till september 26th or risk being dragged to court and lose there... included in the complaint are concerns about legitimate buyers not being able to enjoy their purchase, just because valve could decide to lock them out of it and valve not acting in accordance with the latest european court rulings concering the sale and purchase of 'used' dowloaded content (they don't allow it)
if you can read kraut, here's the source: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Verbraucherzentrale-mahnt-Valve-ab-1709509.html

Yeah, just read that, too.
In principle thats cool, but I wonder how much they can do about it. AFAIK Valve hasn't any german property, which makes dragging them to a german court difficult, or at least doesn't give them much power should they decide to ignore it.
 

Gord

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We'll see. If something good comes from it, like re-selling used games, or better customer protection I'm all for it.
 

Kingston

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A) There is a cult of personality around Gaben. All of this is based around marketing, where gaben is presented as a fat nerd so hardcore gamers will like him. You like to think that the guy running a billion-dollar business is looking out for you interests. The fact that this is so obvious and people fall for it is sad.

Gabe is not CliffyB. He's not an attention whore, his "fans" are just making him into this celebrity. Gabe himself doesn't really give a damn about publicity. The guy only gives maybee 1-2 interviews per year.

Oh, you know this, do you? You've talked to Gabe then, have you? Had a little chat about this whole publicity thing of his that he doesn't give a damn about?

I say Gabe really does give a damn about his public image, which is why he only gives maybe 1-2 interviews per year. The fact that message forums are full of people chanting "god gaben" is no accident. Valve is very careful to give out the image of Gabe as the likeable nerd that you can relate to. You can't relate to CliffyB, a muscular wannabe-rockstar. But you can relate to that fat guy who starts to breathe heavily after climbing a flight of stairs. Gabe is a brand.


B) Everyone gives a pass on Valve over shit they would never forgive another company. Horse armour pissed everyone off, but TF2 hats are fine!

In either case, nobody forces you to buy that shit. "Fans" want hats, Valve provides.

I.e. Valve milks their customers. But nobody calls Valve out on it.

C) Steam is one of the most offending forms of DRM. With GoG, you just download the installer and do nothing else (you actually own the game!). Afaik Direct 2 Drive, Origin, Gamer's Gate or Impulse don't need to run in the background either. Steam on the other hand does, and it also collects all kinds of data about the way you play all the time (which it may or may not sell to advertisers, to boot).

What's so offending about Steam?

Do you have problems understanding what you read or do you just not give a shit? You don't own the games you buy from Steam. You are monitored by it all the time. You can't release DRM-free games on Steam. Steam takes 30% off everything sold on it.

I understand arguing with you about these points is pointless, because you don't care about privacy, or about owning the things you buy, or about the fact that the more people use these kinds of services the more they will pop up in every other aspect of life.

The times where patches are uploaded on some shitty servers are over.

Is this the reason why Steam is so great to you? Because it updates the games automatically, so you don't have to click on the update button? Is that it in a nutshell?

Black Mesa was a prime example why every single game should be Steam exclusive.

You have got to be one of the stupidest members on this forum.

Every game should be a Steam exclusive? You want every game ever to be in Valve's renting service, which may or may not be around five years from now? You want to give a company a monopoly on PC gaming? What if I don't want to have Gabe check up on me every five minutes, what if I want to run my games without anyone else having a peek at what I'm doing. What if I don't want to use Steam?

I like using GoG. I like buying games from GoG. But apparently that's wrong, because every game should be a Steam exclusive.

People went apeshit when Blizzard made D3 always-online. Steam makes everything always-online. Yet that's somehow a good thing. Because that fat guy runs it.
 

Achilles

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As for establishing a more open system, Valve has to get something in return you know. They are the ones hosting the games on servers that they pay for, they are the ones providing the services, and if those other stores didn't offer Steamworks games noone would buy from them.
No one would buy from them? What? So you buy a game because it is on steam, rather than say because you're interested in the game? WTF man?

It's not my personal point of view, it's just an observation based on the current state of the market. Steam took hold of the digital distribution marketplace first, it became more or less the standard and now most of Steam's audience will not purchase non-Steamworks games fom anywhere else because they want all of their games on Steam. Without Steamworks games to distribute, a large number of competing stores would see their revenue plummet.
 

Gord

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On the other hand, other distribution platforms also offer Steamworks games/Steam keys now.
It softens the monopoly up, abit, but unfortunately still means that you are somewhat locked into Steam.
 

IDtenT

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[Steam] became more or less the standard and now most of Steam's audience will not purchase non-Steamworks games fom anywhere else because they want all of their games on Steam.
That is exactly my point? As a consumer I want all my games in one place and indeed I do buy all my games on steam, for this very reason. The point is that a universal interface will allow me to still have all my games in one place, but from various providers and not just Valve.
 

Achilles

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[Steam] became more or less the standard and now most of Steam's audience will not purchase non-Steamworks games fom anywhere else because they want all of their games on Steam.
That is exactly my point? As a consumer I want all my games in one place and indeed I do buy all my games on steam, for this very reason. The point is that a universal interface will allow me to still have all my games in one place, but from various providers and not just Valve.

It would be very nice, sadly I don't see it happening. Valve would never agree (and rightly so, imo) to decouple the Steamworks platform from the store, as that would give their competitors a tremendous advantage that they certainly did not earn.
 

Gord

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Well, if they gain too much market dominance, regulatory actions by governments might force them to split up.
However likely that is.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Unsurprising perhaps, the defense of White Forest was almost like miniature open world gameplay.
 

Morgoth

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The Source engine since Ep2 was perfectly capable of rendering large outdoor maps, so I don't know what you're trying to say here Multiheaded Cow.

If HL3 is really open world, then all the power to Valve. Obviously, they'll have modified the Source engine enough to support large outdoor areas without loading screens. They will fuck Bethesda in the ass with that I will asure you.
 

CorpseZeb

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But all of the charm of HL series comes from "closed form" factor. The "strong" story mode requires from game to be linear as much as it is possible. In short: open world HL 3 will be a weak sausage without sauce. Probably. Or, maybe, they simply thinking about stalkerized HL3...

PS. All I want form HL 3 is story, corridors, bald scientists, donuts, lack of women and strong SF theme (but not post cold war era blank and boring cities - I am looking at you, HL2).
 

Morgoth

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Ep2 provided us with a glimpse of open world-y-ness, and it worked quite well. In terms of setting, I like both HL1's Dulce undergound Alien base, and Soviet East-block meets strange Alien architecture HL2 style.

Though certainly they need to wrap up the HL2 story first, remember, there's still unfinished business after the cold murder of Eli.

Either way, whatever Valve plans to do with HL3, I trust them they will deliver and I will humbly buy that fucker day 1.
 

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