Wasteland The Wasteland 2 Beta Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Skunkpew]

Isn't it time to just get rid of all skills and attributes anyways? The player should click on something and it works or it doesn't. At the start of the game you define a character as a medic, grenadier, sniper, etc. Then when you choose to interact with a first-aid kit or whatever, the medic comes forward automatically and has an inherent medic skill. When you throw a grenade, the grenadier throws it, etc. The player shouldn't be forced to have to think or miss out on something because they use the wrong person in the wrong situation. How stupid would it be to even allow a medic to throw a grenade?

In adventure games we've already seen that verb-based systems are useless and offer nothing but confusion. There's no nuance there at all. So it is with skills and attributes. Aren't they just an RPG version of pointless verb-based interaction systems? And that sucks. Three different speech skills all doing sort of the same thing, what's that about? It's unfair and boring to make me need to figure out what the developer intends for me to do to solve a situation. Once I know I need to interact with an NPC or something, or once I know I need a sniper placed in a certain spot, I should only have to click and the game can solve the rest for me. I mean, I already figured out that I need to click on something, that should be enough.

Here are other examples I have:

Spoiler

 

[hiver]

I know, yes. Yet... Wasteland is predecessor of Fallout and both are in the scope of pulpy sci-fi retro setting.

Wasteland being whackier - BUT NOT fantasy.

sure, 'cept wasteland is not really a predecessor to fallout in any way other than a huge source of inspiration and it actually came out in the 80ies and thus isn't a retro setting by any means. (then) contamporary sci-fi b-movie stuff like the vampires from lifeforce or the football killer alien bots from moontrap fit right in along radangels or the stuff in the ag center.

OK. Accepted. Yet it is sci-fi pulp fiction.

My point being you cant just throw fantasy vampires in.
It has to be something adapted and camouflaged into a sci-fi pulpy version. Its a small distinction but it is a distinction.

zelazny? i read a ton of him when i was a kid but don't remember that one. will check it out eventually but my reading schedule's kinda busy atm.

Its a short story. With a vampire in it. Only it is not a cape wearing fantasy vampire.
- would serve perfectly as an "inspiration".

 

[NotAGolfer]

Skunkpew
Since this was addressed towards me:
With "skill C&C don't do anything for me in a party based game" I didn't mean that they shouldn't implement skill checks, they should, the more the better. But for me those skill checks are more like road blocks in a party based games. If my swiss army knife party doesn't pass them it tells me I have to come back later after leveling up and further specializing my party members. That stuff is fun to me btw.
With skill C&C I mean what I wrote earlier, choices which are the result of me not being able to cover all the bases, so it's a real choice and not just a check I know my party will pass sooner or later.
I'm okay with it but none of my favorite games had that stuff in abundance (not even the first 2 Fallouts, always played a jack of all trades and even reloaded to see the different story C&C outcomes on my first playthrough) so I doubt that the time and effort they have to invest in balancing that stuff out and giving as many branching options as reasonably possible (so that players with as many different parties as possible can actually enjoy the game) will pay off for me.

Excidium (1 post below):
What's what I wrote in a nutshell. You should have noticed by now that I don't really care for skill C&C anyway...
If you are bored atm head over to the favorite Codex CRPG poll and try to find games in there with a lot of real skill based C&C (besides Arcanum).
...
Err, didn't you mean to say "A check you can pass sooner or later isn't really a choice.".
Damn you trolls!

 

[Excidium]

A check that you can't pass isn't really a choice.

 

[Answermancer]

equipped items take up space in your inventory

I've seen this mentioned several times so I just wanted to point out that there is an option in the settings under Gameplay to disable this.

 

[Onholyservicebound]

Nice, now all they need to do is make the items stack and add auto arrange. Stacking being the priority..Selling a hundred weapon scraps individually is pretty fucking tedious.

 

[Answermancer]

I agree.

Also at least on my machine I can't drag and drop one item onto another and have them swap locations. I have to first move the item out of the target square. I can't imagine this is intentional, since it drives me crazy, but I don't know.

 

[Onholyservicebound]

With the new inventory in and working we've been tackling the barter screen next.

Apparently it's working, but hopefully if I whine enough they'll change it for me, they're good at that.

Spoiler

I'd also like it if Inxile added a hump and a long neck plz.

 

[undecaf]

The character system is of course not final. Attribute skill-caps still aren't in and the amount of skill points you get at chargen and levelup can and will be tweaked. That is "balance pass" stuff that comes down the line, it gets unbalanced during development and we re-balanced it (this patch did a lot for how attributes work in particular), but there's no point in perfectly balancing things right now because we will keep changing systems and levels, so you don't do these final balances until you're much closer to release. Appraising it as if it's a final system will give a skewed perspective on its functionality.

Did you originally have a system for skills different from the current 1 to 10 range, or do I misrecall? If you did, what happened to it (why the change)? I just wonder, because, considering the notion of attribute based skillcaps and skillpoints initially/per level might be easier to implement (possibly even with more rewarding results) and balance out with a bit more flexible range in the skills themselves (not to mention the possibility of some form of learn by doing slapped on top of it all, that was thrown on the table at some point).

 

[hiver]

damnit undecaf... cant you just let them come up with a good idea on their own? did you really had to spoil it?

 

[Onholyservicebound]

Spoiler

Being followed by a legion Frumentarrii, speaking in Roman, and just appearing at the most random moments, after fights, during important meetings, no matter where I go this fellow is following me, I haven't killed him because I find him endearing. I've nicknamed him karl, because I think he's a nig, might just be your run of the mill wop, but that would ruin the reference.. Spoiler because I don't know if it's part of the story or something..

Provost pls go.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Is that a Lady Of Pain mask on that guy's head?

 

[Brother None]

Apparently it's working, but hopefully if I whine enough they'll change it for me, they're good at that.

What? Working is not the same thing as final. Your post had some good feedback, I passed it on. There's still tweaking and improvements to do.

 

[Onholyservicebound]

And me saying it'll hopefully be changed isn't the same as me saying it's final. It's not currently implemented, I'd rather not take anything for granted.

Speaking of which, are the icons final? I see little point in introducing a list based if half of the items don't have their own icon, I thought the point was instant recognizability, 5.56mm and 7.w/emm look the same, and a large majority of items are just the all items tab icon.

Spoiler

Also that guy is still following me, all the way to the prison actually... I actually got a message about how I killed a red scorpion and the red scorpions were using it as an excuse to go to war with the rangers or some shit. I really don't even remotely remember killing a red scorpion..so maybe I was supposed to kill that guy? Idk..

 

[Infinitron]

Amusing butthurt explosion on the WL2 forums: http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=6421

You've already told me to write you directly and I've tried. And the only thing I got were MORE WARNINGS. You told me to report people who cross the line and the only thing I got was being branded as "A BAIT". Well, here we go again.

I think you all know me. And you see the history of the messages.

You know what, people? You suck. You're the problem on that forum, you're the main reason why unreasonable people like Crosmando still troll here, you're the reason why paranoid SagaDC mocks and stalks his "enemies", you're the sole reason why every and all discussions are dying. You can't moderate a discussion, you're unprofessional. I don't see people banned for blatant abuse, but I will be banned by calling people out on their stupidity and stirring up at least SOME KIND of discussion. It's no wonder that people forget about this forum and move on.

I could still report stuff via centercode, but this forum is dead and the only people to talk here are overly vigilant moders who ban those who have different opinions and some oldfags who happen to have the same opinion as moders. Everyone else are either seldom posters or randoms who come and go. Or social people who have a different opinion, but are unlucky enough to be considered "troll baiters" or what other ridiculous name you've invented for them.

Face it, people. Your so called "rules" that you uphold selectively have brought nothing but demise to the community. Jeez, when a game has a more dedicated and brave community on RPGCodex than on it's official forums it sure tells a lot.

You'll probably dismiss my message, because "I always bait" or "he's just a troll", but this is stupid, because this is not the case. I am a smart guy, I have a large engineering AND gamedev background, I could be an asset to this place. Hell, I CHOSE to be an asset. I was the first guy to find the fault in your SaveGames problem from the first releases. I dance around sharp edges, I make people think and voice their concerns. And notice how no discussion involving me has spiraled into blatant scandal or became derailed to the point of being unproductive. Sure, some posts are offtopic, but you think I do this stuff to report people. BUT YOU ARE THE ONES WHO TOLD ME TO REPORT PEOPLE. I do this for the sake of discussion.

So I was productive and smart around here. But what did you do afterwards? You just flat out cut me off and sided with people who troll me. Well, good luck in your little world of perfection fellas. I hope you ban me for this message, because hey, that's what you do. And my "last warning" was given to me because I had guts to call out power abuse on a moderator, which I had no beef with, but obviously you all had a chat about me in the private section and made him think of me like of some kind of dick.

Good luck with your dying forum and ridiculous standards of moderation. I sincerely hope this message will change something and you will realize the error of your ways, but hey, you had your chance before.

He decided to do an AMA about his experiences: I'm on my way to being banned, AMA about Wasteland 2

I will not resort to bickering, I will answer sincere and straight about my time here and about my game perception. I love everyone here, but the mod team, even Crosmando. And in this little time we have we could make the most of it by having a productive discussion.

That's a clever idea, maybe somebody should try it on the Codex someday.

 

[garren]

 

[Excidium]

post on official forums
get censored
cry about it

 

[Zombra]

Please don't say "butthurt explosion"

 

[MLMarkland]

And me saying it'll hopefully be changed isn't the same as me saying it's final. It's not currently implemented, I'd rather not take anything for granted.

Speaking of which, are the icons final? I see little point in introducing a list based if half of the items don't have their own icon, I thought the point was instant recognizability, 5.56mm and 7.w/emm look the same, and a large majority of items are just the all items tab icon.

Spoiler

Also that guy is still following me, all the way to the prison actually... I actually got a message about how I killed a red scorpion and the red scorpions were using it as an excuse to go to war with the rangers or some shit. I really don't even remotely remember killing a red scorpion..so maybe I was supposed to kill that guy? Idk..

Icons are not final

 

[hiver]

okay...Inxile (BN and others) have graciously provided me with a steam key for the beta.

But i cant figure out how t actually get it on steam. I havent been using it for a few years... and all i see or can get to is the usual interface to buy the deluxe version.

What the hell do i have to do to "redeem" the beta, or whatever the hell it is called now?

 

[Infinitron]

okay...Inxile (BN and others) have graciously provided me with a steam key for the beta.

But i cant figure out how t actually get it on steam. I havent been using it for a few years... and all i see or can get to is the usual interface to buy the deluxe version.

What the hell do i have to do to "redeem" the beta, or whatever the hell it is called now?

Games --> Activate a Product on Steam --> Enter key

 

[hiver]

Ah, so you dont actually go to the game page and then do it from there. wtf.. gabe?

ffs..

 

[Onholyservicebound]

MLMarkland Too lazy to cut the quote? Pleased to hear, not that I actually really thought you guys would fail on icons that tremendously, just, again, not taking anything for granted. Couldn't find that chew toy for the longest time because of the amount of blank items.
Naturally, I expect a unique icon for every single piece of rubbish in the game.

by Morphine_OD » February 28th, 2014, 3:45 pm
Dude, oldfag is not an insult. Oldfag is like an "old time soldier" just on the internet slang.

He's right about that, obviously it contains a slur, but they still allow people to say things like idiot and moron, which in themselves are slurs for the type of person who is offended by something like "oldfag".

Spoiler

He should come post over here if he wants to talk about fags.

 

[Country_Gravy]

Ah, so you dont actually go to the game page and then do it from there. wtf.. gabe?

ffs..

LOL...tards gonna tard.

Menus...wtf? I have to look around for stuff. Where is my reacvtivity?

 

[hiver]

:Smacks country gravy over the head: Go away shit licker.