Wasteland The Wasteland 2 Beta Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[LESS T_T]

How ironic.

Gamasutra: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...lessons_learned_in_developing_Wasteland_2.php/

There’s always people who want Fallout. They want every attribute of Fallout. This isn’t Fallout -- it’s something else. We aren’t trying to clone Fallout. So we have legacy issues we always worry about as we put this together.

 

[Zed]

Kotaku: http://kotaku.com/wasteland-2-could-be-the-proper-next-act-for-fallout-1616300365

He really should have made the game more like Fallout if he wanted to sell Fallout.

"It's definitely a mixture of the two," he said. "If you're a fan of Fallout 1 and 2, this scratches that itch."

Well, it does not, in any way.

 

[felipepepe]

There’s always people who want Fallout. They want every attribute of Fallout. This isn’t Fallout -- it’s something else. We aren’t trying to clone Fallout.

If you close your eyes, it's like you're playing Fallout 3

The silver tongue strikes again...

Also, lol at Kotaku "we always dreamed of a true Fallout 3!"

 

[Infinitron]

Destructoid: http://www.destructoid.com/father-o...t-your-fans-and-revive-a-classic-279094.phtml
PC Gamer: http://www.pcgamer.com/previews/wasteland-2-hands-on-following-the-hobo-code/

VG247 video:

 

[Infinitron]

New LA screenshots:

 

[Jaesun]

LA seems to have some cockroach problems...... big ones.

 

[Infinitron]

Beta has a new hotfix btw: https://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=7887&start=80#p113500

We have a new hotfix going live for the beta that should correct a few issues some players were having. Notes are:

- Fixed save/load crash associated with a bad article of clothing in character creation
- Adjusted compression of a group of audio files

Thanks guys!

 

[bonescraper]

Van Buren looked better. Just saying.

 

[Cazzeris]

They're going to disappoint lots of people if they keep saying that Wasteland is like Fallout, because that's a big lie.

I think that it also can damage Wasteland 2 sale numbers.

 

[Infinitron]

From the RPS interview:

RPS: You were saying about how many bugs the community had identified for you – is that stuff removing the need for QA?

Brian Fargo: Oh, we have quite a big QA team, we have a whole group in Poland that’s helping us to do QA. Remember, on the LA map side, that isn’t in the public yet, so we’ve had to throw a bunch of bodies at that. Even on the Arizona side of it, we still have it, because we can say “we need you to play through the game and shoot everyone,” because that’s a different play experience. Most people who play it are trying to play in a more normal fashion, so we’ll dictate that QA play it in certain ways. Plus there’s ourselves, a small team internally, but there’s a lot externally. We do regression tracking and all that, there’s a whole science to keeping it bug-free.

If the game turns out to be buggy, you know who to blame.

More good stuff:

RPS: Where do you stand on save-scumming? I have to confess that’s how I rescued little Ralphie Parker in the end, because I didn’t want to be the guy who doesn’t save drowning kids, but was I breaking your puzzle there?

Brian Fargo: Because people are able to save games and restore easily? I’ve got you covered there, because for so many events, the cause and the action are so very far apart. So you can’t just be doing that. In many ways, a lot of the tension is lost in some modern games because you can save it, try it, not like the result and immediately reload. We have things that happen because of what you’ve done, a kind of butterfly effect, 2, 3, 4, 5 hours later on. You want to go back five hours of gameplay? Go for it. It’s not worth it – so you are stuck with it. Once that happens a couple of times, you’re really going to start thinking about your decisions. “I didn’t do that, and now four hours later this happens, I got to be really careful with my decisions.” Nothing makes the game unwinnable, we wouldn’t do that to you, but it does change things, and that’s just the way it goes. “I would have liked to have met this cult, but now they all hate me and I will never know what it’s like to go into this town and talk to them because I’m not going to replay four hours.” Design philosophy-wise, that’s how we attack that.

RPS: Is the cause of these consequences always transparent?

Brian Fargo: If it’s a big impact, we try to message it obviously, if it’s a smaller impact, no. There are other things where there’s a more subtle butterfly effect. There’s this one NPC companion, which I love, and remember there’s like 12 or 14 different ones, but if you kept this one all the way to the end of the game – and I don’t know why you would, only I do know, because you get emotionally attached to these people – there’s a whole sequence that happens in the last 20 minutes. It’s hilarious. I don’t know what percentage of people will see it, maybe 5%, but I absolutely love it. If you do have the guy, you’ll be thinking “I can’t believe I’m getting a pay off for keeping him in my party.” It’s just a visual pay-off, but it’s very, very funny.

RPS: In that sort of vein, I like to ask developers what one element in their game that they were personally responsible for and might not get noticed at all they’re most proud of?

Brian Fargo: Well, I was pretty actively responsible for several parts of the game. One is that in one of Mark Morgan soundtracks you’re going to hear a preacher coming in and out of the music. That preacher is my grandfather. He was a fire and brimstone preacher, he travelled the Bible belt during the 30s and 40s and gave these revival talks, he was a revival minister. He died of a heart attack in his 30s, he was so over the top, but before that he recorded an album – he was that big. So I lifted that into this soundtrack and you can hear it in there.

Another one is I put this other character in, it’s just this odd moment and I love reading people trying to figure it out, he’s named Probost. You’re playing the game, and all of a sudden somebody starts following you. He says nothing. He won’t speak to you, he’s just following you. You go into combat and he’ll actually get into combat with you and help you. Then he just goes away. Never a word. The conjecture about what it means is fantastic. And if you kill him for no reason, he drops an Owl of Minerva, which is an Illuminati thing. There are some other Illuminati references in LA, so was he related? I love those moments where it’s ‘what did it mean?’ I love the non-sequitur stuff.

I don’t like in movies and TV where everything thing has to be right on the nose, every message that you get is right there helping you solve the puzzle or push the story forwards. I like that there’s a lot of other chatter going on in the world. Some of it is nonsensical, some of it you have to make sense out of it. One of my other parts is I have a whole bit in Russian, where there’s two Russians having a conversation over the airwaves that of course makes no sense to you. Unless you speak Russian. And if you do, you actually get a clue that you’d never have otherwise. I put in a bunch of old Cold War radio signals that we still to this day don’t quite know what they meant, and odd tones… I love the atmosphere of the world-building.

It was also my idea to put in the children’s choir singing. I was actually at one of my kid’s recitals, and they were singing about an event – that was actually a really shitty event – but the singing sounded wonderful. I was “this is brilliant! This is perfect! We have to get a kid’s choir!”

RPS: So basically you’re trying to get every member of your family to sing in Wasteland 2?

Brian Fargo: Well, I was going to get that choir, but then they convinced me to get a real kids’ choir, so that’s what we did. I think the kids’ choir is one of my favourite moments. I have a lot of little things in there. There’s another little musical piece late in the game, a licensed thing, I won’t ruin that but when it comes on it’s very odd. I just want to make sure that when you start this game – and it’s a big game – from beginning to end you never once feel like you’re just seeing the same stuff. You’re meeting people, seeing people, hearing music, odd moments from start to the very end. In fact I even had us introduce a new game mechanic in the last 20 minutes. The game actually operates completely differently in the last 20 minutes than it did the prior stuff.

RPS: It turns into Super Irradiated Mario?

Brian Fargo: Well, not quite that. More Sinistar. [laughs]. No.

 

[Pope Amole II]

I think that it also can damage Wasteland 2 sale numbers.

It probably will because there's only one true prophet and his name is Fallout 3. Unfortunately for us, but that's of little consequence to the world.

 

[Infinitron]

Roguey may find this budget talk on Eurogamer interesting:

But where did this extra budget come from? If inXile was in such a difficult position before the Kickstarter, where did it get the extra millions of dollars?

A few places, it turns out. inXile had made some cash from its back catalogue, which Fargo has bolstered over the years by doing what he does best: spotting, signing and publishing games for a profit. There are ongoing sales of The Bard's Tale, which does particularly well on Google Play, apparently. Fargo did a distribution deal with publisher Deep Silver to handle the retail release of Wasteland 2, freeing up hundreds of thousands of dollars reserved for manufacturing to put into production. There was cash brought in from the sale of the Early Access build, too, although inXile had already decided to make Wasteland 2 bigger by the time it launched on Steam in December 2013.

And then there's Fargo's cash. I ask him how much of his own money he's put into Wasteland 2 in total, and he shifts a bit before committing to a roundabout figure of $700,000. Clearly Fargo, the developer who once ran Interplay, isn't doing badly for himself.

"I'm an entrepreneur," he says. "I'm used to betting the farm. It goes in. It goes out. I've had my highs. I've had my lows. It just comes with the territory. It's not for the squeamish."

Some info on the high backers:

By the end of the first day Wasteland 2 had raised $400,000 - nearly half its goal. "I thought, the next day it's going to drop off into a trough and we'll be lucky to make the $900,000." The next day, though, started strong, then something crazy happened. A "random guy" contacted the studio. He was one of Wasteland 2's $10,000 backers. He said if inXile came up short, he'd give them the rest of the money.

"We were half a million short at the time. I almost got teary-eyed. I thought, we're going to make it. If I've got a guy saying that, we're going to make it."

[...] The mysterious $10,000 benefactor didn't need to get his wallet out in the end, but who was he? He doesn't want his identity to be known, Fargo says, tightlipped. But he is, apparently, one of the early founders of a "huge" electronics business who "made a killing". "A local guy," Fargo smiles. "He's been to my office a couple of times. Nice guy."

In total 12 people gave Wasteland 2 $10,000 each, and inXile has thanked them all. One said he had pirated all of Fargo's games as a kid so felt bad. Another gave $10,000 to Wasteland 2 and $10,000 for Torment, inXile's later, even more successful Kickstarter. The latter turned up at the Torment closing party, driving down from San Francisco. Fargo couldn't help himself. "I said, 'I'm just curious. I think it's fantastic, and thank you! But, what makes you want to step up like that?' He says, 'I like games.'"

On the role of Matt Findley and cut content:

So, Wasteland 2 has ended up bigger than it might have been, a game at least 50 hours long - potentially longer if you seek out all the secrets buried beneath its barren landscape. For this Fargo had to battle inXile president and long-standing colleague Matt Findley, who worked with Fargo back in the Interplay days.

Findley, Fargo says, throws cold water on the development team all of the time. "I like that," he says. Findley questions everything - it's his job. "So I've got on one side my doughy-eyed young guys who want to be like Blizzard and spend eight years on a title and think we're in the triple-A business, and we've got Matt, who's like, if we don't ship it we're going broke. Matt's hitting the panic button all of the time."

When Fargo insisted Wasteland 2 effectively double in size Matt had a fit. "He said, 'how are you going to get it through QA? It's impossible. The thing is massive.' I said, 'don't worry. The audience is going to help us.' He said, 'you're crazy.' I said, 'they'll help us beta test. I'm telling you, they want to be part of it.' This is before Early Access by the way. I always felt we could get there somehow. You don't always have every single exact answer but you get a feel for things."

This became a "raging debate" about how large the game should be, with Matt focusing on "the downside, the horrible - that's fine, I respect that". But Fargo won the argument. "I knew I was walking in big shoes with Fallout and Fallout 2. I knew, not only would I be competing with Fallout, but peoples' memories of Fallout, which is an even higher bar."

Fargo didn't win all of the arguments, though. One of his favourite maps, indeed one he designed, was cut out. Fargo had murdered his darling, and it's a shame, because it sounds brilliant.

The map, set in the post-apocalyptic La Brea Tar Pits area of Los Angeles, was home to the Gippers, a cult who worshipped former US president Ronald Reagan as a god. (The Gippers is a reference to Reagan's role as George "The Gipper" Gipp in the 1940 biopic Knute Rockne, All American.) Fargo even secured the rights to hours of old documentary and speech film so when players visited the map the crowd of worshippers would be watching real life footage of Reagan. Think Bonzo, the chimpanzee who starred alongside Reagan in 1951 comedy film Bedtime for Bonzo, and jelly beans, which Reagan loved. The Gippers are gripped in Cold War terror and ask the player to kill some Russians they believe are up on a nearby hill. A Scorpitron is stuck in the middle of the tar pit like an old dinosaur frozen in time. The whole idea was inspired by current Republican Party rhetoric.

"Their revisionist history, it's already been magnified, but blown it out times a hundred," Fargo laughs. "So if you know a little bit about history and you read about it, it's hilarious. He actually was quite an amazing man, but we've taken the truth and spun it out. It's great stuff.

"That was one of my favourite areas, and because of a lot of different reasons it had to be cut. A lot of it was done, it was just going to add another month and we couldn't do more. At some point you've got to make a cut, even if it's my own stuff."

Unfortunately The Gippers aren't in the final game, but there's a slither of hope - if inXile ever makes Wasteland 2 DLC. "Let me tell you, that's first on the list."

Apparently THQ was one of the publishers that rejected Wasteland 2:

There was one publisher meeting in particular, with the now defunct THQ, that springs to mind. THQ rejected Wasteland 2 because, Fargo was told, it was an old franchise and THQ only liked to do new ones. He kept the rejection email. "It made no sense. It was very funny. 'We like it but we like to do original properties,' and they were a hundred per cent licensed, sequel-driven company. It was beautiful."

And also LucasArts:

Fargo spoke with everyone, it seems. One publisher said it already had a role-playing game, which was fair enough. The people at LucasArts, also now defunct, said they didn't do high fantasy. "At least it was an honest answer," Fargo remembers. "I never minded no. I just liked to hear rationale. But sometimes they couldn't articulate it."

Wat.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Fargo needs to drop all this PR bullshit, he can't have it both ways, saying that people shouldn't expect Fallout and then saying it's kinda like Fallout.

 

[Infinitron]

Fargo needs to drop all this PR bullshit, he can't have it both ways, saying that people shouldn't expect Fallout and then saying it's kinda like Fallout.

Well, a game actually CAN be "like Fallout" but still be distinctly different in important ways.

Most players out there aren't thinking about RPG design as deeply as the Codex does. For them, post-apocalyptic + dark humor + isometric turn-based = like Fallout, end of story.

Similarly, Pillars of Eternity is both like and unlike Baldur's Gate.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Their slightly schizofrenic approach to developing wl2, trying to cast the widest possible net on the marketplace, did more harm than good. The game as it stands is neither a clear cut sequel to either the wasteland or Fallout games.

It's trying to please everyone, as seen in this PR blitz, without actually scratching those respective itches.

 

[mindx2]

The map, set in the post-apocalyptic La Brea Tar Pits area of Los Angeles, was home to the Gippers, a cult who worshipped former US president Ronald Reagan as a god. (The Gippers is a reference to Reagan's role as George "The Gipper" Gipp in the 1940 biopic Knute Rockne, All American.) Fargo even secured the rights to hours of old documentary and speech film so when players visited the map the crowd of worshippers would be watching real life footage of Reagan. Think Bonzo, the chimpanzee who starred alongside Reagan in 1951 comedy film Bedtime for Bonzo, and jelly beans, which Reagan loved. The Gippers are gripped in Cold War terror and ask the player to kill some Russians they believe are up on a nearby hill. A Scorpitron is stuck in the middle of the tar pit like an old dinosaur frozen in time. The whole idea was inspired by current Republican Party rhetoric.

"Their revisionist history, it's already been magnified, but blown it out times a hundred," Fargo laughs. "So if you know a little bit about history and you read about it, it's hilarious. He actually was quite an amazing man, but we've taken the truth and spun it out. It's great stuff.

"That was one of my favourite areas, and because of a lot of different reasons it had to be cut. A lot of it was done, it was just going to add another month and we couldn't do more. At some point you've got to make a cut, even if it's my own stuff."

Unfortunately The Gippers aren't in the final game, but there's a slither of hope - if inXile ever makes Wasteland 2 DLC. "Let me tell you, that's first on the list."

Fargo's a LIBERAL?!!! Say it ain't so...

liberals

 

[felipepepe]

Most players out there aren't thinking about RPG design as deeply as the Codex does. For them, post-apocalyptic + dark humor + isometric turn-based = like Fallout, end of story.

Curse you 'tron, of all the apologistic logic you've employed in this thread, this is one I can't disagree with.

But I still think it's PR bullshit.

 

[Zombra]

Hmmm, stealth is mentioned a couple times in that Kotaku interview:

Building out a proper squad of Desert Rangers gets around [unsolvable problems], [Fargo] reasoned. It puts less pressure on the player by given them a larger inventory from the outset. Plus, it's just more fun to be able to swap between characters specializing in stealth, charisma, and brute force—the three main ways people can get stuff done in the game—than having to settle on one for an entire 80-hour game.

[Fargo] had just reloaded to the beginning of the doomsday mission to show me what would happen if he'd agreed to imprisonment. His small squad was sitting in a dank hallway, somewhere deep below the missile silo. Pretty soon, their guns were blazing again. But he assured me you could also sneak your way out of this situation.

I'm just curious about all this. What would it mean to have a character "specialized in stealth" with no stealth skills in the game? Suppose I wanted to build a whole party geared towards stealth - how would I do that? Is it just a question of not moving your characters to combat trigger points, using side tunnels and so forth instead? Or is it running past those vision cones I remember from the very first preview video, but haven't thought about much since?

Or does Fargo just not know that Silent Move was cut?

 

[Country_Gravy]

WHAT?? Stealth was cut? That sucks. Oh, well. At least they still have perks, right?

 

[sea]

I'm just curious about all this. What would it mean to have a character "specialized in stealth" with no stealth skills in the game? Suppose I wanted to build a whole party geared towards stealth - how would I do that? Is it just a question of not moving your characters to combat trigger points, using side tunnels and so forth instead? Or is it running past those vision cones I remember from the very first preview video, but haven't thought about much since?

Or does Fargo just not know that Silent Move was cut?

I think that was just the Kotaku editor taking some creative license.

 

[Zombra]

I think that was just the Kotaku editor taking some creative license.

A shame, but fair enough.

 

[Roguey]

Damn shame about the loss of the Gipper map.

Not surprised that the drowning boy is Fargo's idea.

I pushed hard, and there were lots of arguments internally. Let's just do Arizona, Brian. It's still a 25 hour game. Nobody's going to complain.

Ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

This forum would have been fantastic if Wasteland 2 was just Arizona.

I’m a backer and a long time beta participant.

This game is real, and it’s fantastic.

There’s really little to say about this game other than to praise it. If you haven’t played it yet and you liked fallout, fallout tactics, Jagged Alliance, or many other games – this one will blow your mind. It’s what those old games would have been with today’s production values and lessons learned with a very determined and clear vision of what they were trying to achieve, without ever having to compromise to a conflicting agenda.

 

[SuicideBunny]

holy fuck, rps is even more of a shithole than i thought.

 

[Cazzeris]

Please don't release a console version.

That is what I would call a true disappointment.

 

[RK47]

Their slightly schizofrenic approach to developing wl2, trying to cast the widest possible net on the marketplace, did more harm than good. The game as it stands is neither a clear cut sequel to either the wasteland or Fallout games.

It's trying to please everyone, as seen in this PR blitz, without actually scratching those respective itches.

At 59.99 that price point - I strictly cannot recommend this game to anyone.