Wasteland The Wasteland 2 Beta Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Excidium]

I thought everyone knew that C&C in Wasteland 2 = branching content. There was a huge argument over it with loads of DU quote pyramids in some news thread.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Yeah, what's up Infijewtron? Did you jew up on this and didn't pledge enough? Congratulations for donating on the Codex, though. Hope you enjoy that thumb up your ass.

 

[felipepepe]

The best team is probably 4 rangers right now with 10 intelligence, 1 charisma, then their stats put into things that let them shoot guns or take hits.

Best character I made:

Spoiler

Coordination 8
Luck 1
Awareness 8
Strength 3
Speed 1
Intelligence 6
Charisma 1

Assault Rifles 2
Handguns 1
Field Aid 1
Hard Ass 2

Has 10 AP, a lot of dodge, gets 4 skills points per level. Has very high sequence, sometimes goes twice. Use Hard Ass to get the pistol shotgun on the first area, and then you can burst fire the rifle for 6 AP AND shoot the shotgun for 4AP every turn.

 

[Onholyservicebound]

I like that sequence isn't a dump stat like in Fallout, it actually can be really detrimental to have it too low.

 

[Infinitron]

I think Infinitron should shut up and play the beta instead of dictating to others what the game is or isn't while having never played it

Yeah, what's up Infijewtron? Did you jew up on this and didn't pledge enough? Congratulations for donating on the Codex, though. Hope you enjoy that thumb up your ass.

I actually do have the beta, but I haven't gotten far. I'm not sure I want to get far. We'll see.

And I'm not dictating anything.

 

[set]

Yeah, speed luck and charisma seem largely worthless at the moment. I could see speed being good if you were a melee character, but coordination should add enough AP that it should be better than pumping speed - and you need awareness to be really consistent in combat I think.

 

[FeelTheRads]

I'm not sure I want to get far.

Yeah, same here sorta. Stupidly I still hope they fix it and I don't want to burn out on it on some unfinished version. Well... we'll see.

 

[Sensuki]

I actually do have the beta, but I haven't gotten far. I'm not sure I want to get far. We'll see.

Well that's alright then. I'm also holding back on progressing.

 

[set]

Well, if Wasteland 2 is going to be as replayable as Fallout/2 I don't see why you shouldn't be fine with replaying the 'demo' over and over. You could get burnt out trying to legitimately beta test the game though, I don't think I could play it for months on end as they slowly add content. But a few playthroughs probably couldn't hurt, especially at this critical point in time - we're still early enough in development everyone should give feedback if they can.

 

[felipepepe]

Yeah, speed luck and charisma seem largely worthless at the moment. I could see speed being good if you were a melee character, but coordination should add enough AP that it should be better than pumping speed - and you need awareness to be really consistent in combat I think.

Yeah, awareness is easily the best combat stat, giving you AP, Sequence and Evade.

Well, if Wasteland 2 is going to be as replayable as Fallout/2 I don't see why you shouldn't be fine with replaying the 'demo' over and over.

W2 it isn't and I doubt it will ever be as replayable as Fallout.

The "big decision" is binary, and long "dungeons" like the Ag. Center severely hurts any replayability. The place is long and static enough that playing it once you have no energy to face it again. Honestly, judging by the beta, W2 will be cool for 2-3 playthroughts. And you'll always choose to save Highpool, because it's shorter.

 

[made]

So is it possible to totally avoid combat in Wasteland 2?

 

[set]

No. I mean, you can avoid combat at the radio tower area by paying a toll. You might be able to animal whisper that toad in the cave... And you can use Outdoorsman to avoid all random events (which seems like a stupid skill, to be honest) so you won't get stuck with dealing with bandit ambushes... but Ag Center definitely has forced combat. You will be stuck fighting sometimes some of the time, though you could make a team that maybe avoids 60 to 80 percent of it.

Besides paying that toll, I've yet to negotiate out of combat with persuasion or "-ass" skills.

 

[Onholyservicebound]

Graphics are generally pretty mediocre, but those trees are intense, is dis da quality branching I heard tell about? I've seriously never seen a game where the trees had that many branches.

 

[set]

There are some serious shadow issues with the game right now, this is especially apparent on cliff faces, where all shadows improperly render on the cliff below the one you're standnig on.

 

[bonescraper]

Maybe, once they add sneaking, it will be possible to avoid combat in the Agricultural Center. This is how i imagine stealth oriented gameplay in this game. Avoiding groups of enemies on your way to quest objectives. Please InXile, make it right.

 

[set]

I don't see how. Stealth in cRPG-like games tend to always suck because it requires everyone in the party have adequate stealth skill. It's really only useful for maybe reaching a vantage point with a sniper, or something, not for avoiding combat.

 

[tuluse]

I agree that accuracy should take into account the whole trajectory of the projectile. I have seem both the player characters and the enemies missing and hitting something either in front or behind the target, but that should be more common.. Especially hitting stuff in front of the target should be much more common. The way it works now, you can shoot "through" multiple squad members and hit enemies without any problems.

However, strongly disagree with the concept of decreased ranged accuracy for nearby enemies. That is not how guns work. Accuracy goes down the further the target is. Period. It's never the other way around. Also, moving and shooting in the same turn doesn't mean moving and shooting at the same time, thus resulting in decreased accuracy. Decado is right on this issue. Unlike him, I have no military experience but I've been shooting IPSC for some time, and the way you do it is by interleaving bursts of fast movement and no shooting with periods of standing still and shooting. Shooting first and then moving or moving first and then shooting makes no difference because over the course of a single course of fire you go through this run/shoot cycle multiple times, so, in the end, it doesn't matter at all whether you started the course of fire by shooting or by running.

Thanks for the feedback.

I think I think you mis-understood the accuracy changes I wanted for enemies right next to you. I want all ranged accuracy to go down by a specific amount. It would simulate that it's hard to shoot things while someone is trying to stab you in the throat.

 

[tuluse]

So is it possible to totally avoid combat in Wasteland 2?

No, and there are no plans to support that playstyle.

 

[bonescraper]

I don't see how. Stealth in cRPG-like games tend to always suck because it requires everyone in the party have adequate stealth skill. It's really only useful for maybe reaching a vantage point with a sniper, or something, not for avoiding combat.

You could just send your sneaky guy to do the job? But yeah, that would mean you'd have to solo the entire game.

 

[Zombra]

Can someone explain how to put a guy on overwatch?

Bottom left of the screen, above the weapon info, to the left of the end turn button, is a button that if you roll over it says "Ambush." That's overwatch.

Thanks jacobquick

 

[skuphundaku]

I agree that accuracy should take into account the whole trajectory of the projectile. I have seem both the player characters and the enemies missing and hitting something either in front or behind the target, but that should be more common.. Especially hitting stuff in front of the target should be much more common. The way it works now, you can shoot "through" multiple squad members and hit enemies without any problems.

However, strongly disagree with the concept of decreased ranged accuracy for nearby enemies. That is not how guns work. Accuracy goes down the further the target is. Period. It's never the other way around. Also, moving and shooting in the same turn doesn't mean moving and shooting at the same time, thus resulting in decreased accuracy. Decado is right on this issue. Unlike him, I have no military experience but I've been shooting IPSC for some time, and the way you do it is by interleaving bursts of fast movement and no shooting with periods of standing still and shooting. Shooting first and then moving or moving first and then shooting makes no difference because over the course of a single course of fire you go through this run/shoot cycle multiple times, so, in the end, it doesn't matter at all whether you started the course of fire by shooting or by running.

Thanks for the feedback.

I think I think you mis-understood the accuracy changes I wanted for enemies right next to you. I want all ranged accuracy to go down by a specific amount. It would simulate that it's hard to shoot things while someone is trying to stab you in the throat.

You could frame the issue the other way around then: Give a to hit bonus to melee characters when performing attacks on ranged characters. That would be quite realistic. What I'm saying is: instead of decreasing accuracy for the ranged characters as the ranges decrease, increase the accuracy of the melee ones when fighting against ranged opponents. Simulating the stress of close combat by reducing short range accuracy is not realistic. At melee ranges, you don't even have to aim properly in order to hit your target. That I can say from experience: in IPSC courses of fire where you have targets at point blank ranges, you can easily move by them, shoot without stopping and score just alphas (center of the target hits).

What would be awesome to vary with range for ranged characters, would be the damage they inflict. With shotguns, as the range increases, more and more shot will start missing the target, so the damage needs to go down with range. In the case of rifles, you have the issue of terminal ballistics. Depending on the type of ammo, a bullet from a rifle at shorter ranges should fragment and do more damage, while at longer range, because it has lost energy, it may not fragment at all and go through-and-through and do little damage. Also, what seems to me rather broken right now is that the shotgun is almost as accurate as the rifle at longer ranges. That shouldn't be so.

 

[Infinitron]

You could frame the issue the other way around then: Give a to hit bonus to melee characters when performing attacks on ranged characters. That would be quite realistic. What I'm saying is: instead of decreasing accuracy for the ranged characters as the ranges decrease, increase the accuracy of the melee ones when fighting against ranged opponents. Simulating the stress of close combat by reducing short range accuracy is not realistic. At melee ranges, you don't even have to aim properly in order to hit your target. That I can say from experience: in IPSC courses of fire where you have targets at point blank ranges, you can easily move by them, shoot without stopping and score just alphas (center of the target hits).

What would be awesome to vary with range for ranged characters, would be the damage they inflict. With shotguns, as the range increases, more and more shot will start missing the target, so the damage needs to go down with range. In the case of rifles, you have the issue of terminal ballistics. Depending on the type of ammo, a bullet from a rifle at shorter ranges should fragment and do more damage, while at longer range, because it has lost energy, it may not fragment at all and go through-and-through and do little damage. Also, what seems to me rather broken right now is that the shotgun is almost as accurate as the rifle at longer ranges. That shouldn't be so.

Good ideas here. You should put them in CenterCode.

 

[tuluse]

To-hit chances are high enough this game already.

 

[skuphundaku]

You could frame the issue the other way around then: Give a to hit bonus to melee characters when performing attacks on ranged characters. That would be quite realistic. What I'm saying is: instead of decreasing accuracy for the ranged characters as the ranges decrease, increase the accuracy of the melee ones when fighting against ranged opponents. Simulating the stress of close combat by reducing short range accuracy is not realistic. At melee ranges, you don't even have to aim properly in order to hit your target. That I can say from experience: in IPSC courses of fire where you have targets at point blank ranges, you can easily move by them, shoot without stopping and score just alphas (center of the target hits).

What would be awesome to vary with range for ranged characters, would be the damage they inflict. With shotguns, as the range increases, more and more shot will start missing the target, so the damage needs to go down with range. In the case of rifles, you have the issue of terminal ballistics. Depending on the type of ammo, a bullet from a rifle at shorter ranges should fragment and do more damage, while at longer range, because it has lost energy, it may not fragment at all and go through-and-through and do little damage. Also, what seems to me rather broken right now is that the shotgun is almost as accurate as the rifle at longer ranges. That shouldn't be so.

Good ideas here. You should put them in CenterCode.

I will, I have already a list as long as my arm of bugs & feature requests. After I add them there I'll post all of it here too.

By the way: did anybody had any problems loading saves? For me, after the fight at the mortar in Highpool, any save I make can't be loaded.

 

[Zombra]

By the way: did anybody had any problems loading saves? For me, after the fight at the mortar in Highpool, any save I make can't be loaded.

Yeah, this is apparently an issue for many. I had the same exact problem. At the same time, my custom character portraits became "whited out". Some people have drawn a link between custom portraits and the savegame problems ... were you using customs?