Wasteland The Wasteland 2 Beta Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[set]

Spoiler

I imagine that woman is dead if you go to highpool second?

 

[Lhynn]

I imagine that woman is dead if you go to highpool second?

Spoiler

use spoiler tag because its the not-an-asshole thing to do

 

[Spockrock]

Besides paying that toll, I've yet to negotiate out of combat with persuasion or "-ass" skills.

you can smart ass your way out of that particular situation.

I'm finding the game fairly difficult, didn't touch raiders at the radio tower, went to Highpool, Angela Deth and my sniper both ran out of ammo by the time I had cleared the outside area. now I need to go in and fix their stupid pipes and all I have on me is a bunch of spiked clubs and 3 pistols between 5 characters...

 

[set]

Spoiler

That's fine, considering the enemies in that place are pretty weak to melee.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Wasteland 2 in steam bestsellers has fallen back to the 3rd position

 

[hiver]

Dat item description

Funniest thing so far.

Funniest one for me was this one: -

That isnt funny either.
And im just smoking a juji.

So... its the basic binary extremes? Save some NPC or kill them? Thats it?

Sadly, except for the tribal war with the Rail Nomad's, I haven't found a single situation so far that isn't binary in its outcome.

The dialogs are a good display of the lack of reactivity; 99% of the time speaking with someone means simply clicking on every key word that appears...

I fing new it. I kept "wondering" why isnt there any better examples of quest setups with some less crude solutions since the start.
It was all so suspicious from the start...

I mean, sure, whatever, some big things you do or DONT DO... like youknow... saving MEGATON OR - NOT!!! - will probably have different outcomes on the long run in the whole story but this is bellow my worst expectations.

I think this is the difference between "reactivity", and what the Codex typically thinks of as "choice and consequence". Classic Codexian C&C = select dialogue choices in branching dialogues --> get consequences, with AoD as the supreme exemplar of this approach.

This is just a guess, but I suspect "reactivity" in Wasteland 2 expresses itself in more ways than that, ways that can be less obvious in a first playthrough; in the order that you do things, in the people that you choose to help or kill, things like that.

Bro, you really should play the game, there's nothing of that.

Example of how wrong you are:

Spoiler

While exploring the Ag. Center, you learn that some people think that a sabotage happened... they don't know who it was, and they all keep throwing accusations... cool, this could lead to a nice detective scenario, after you save everyone you have to investigate the survivors and figure out who's lying . Awesome set up!

BUT NO!!! As you reach the end of the quest, evil dude appears and say "I DID IT, HOHOHOHOHO!!!", in a retarded comic villain act. All that build up is throw away, there's no C&C whatsoever. Horribly disappointing.

holly crap.

also:

Oh yeah... the old and true tack of "ooohhh thats some special KIND of C&C and TB combat and how RPGs should work - THAT (insert current place of critiques) - RPGCODEX would like!!! AAAAAHHH!!! - well, we cant have that, sorry ... were just going to go for some other audience... like weve done since Interplay."

:tap dance exit:

 

[gromit]

Betas are for when developers have some idea of what they want to do and want to know if that is right or wrong for their audience.

I agree with your post, except for this part which is very, very wrong. Less your fault, and more just the word being rampantly abused as a code-word for "not done."

 

[hiver]

Thanks for the feedback.

I think I think you mis-understood the accuracy changes I wanted for enemies right next to you. I want all ranged accuracy to go down by a specific amount. It would simulate that it's hard to shoot things while someone is trying to stab you in the throat.

But it doesnt simulate that someone is stabing you in the throat or attacking you at all - at the moment.
I always thought this kind of solution is very suboptimal, really.

Not to mention completely contrary to reality and therefore what common sense would expect.

 

[Onholyservicebound]

I really liked that highpool encounter,

Spoiler

Spoiler

where the native woman is in the cage, and they had the balls to add real racism that isn't directed towards mutants or some shit. Very satisfying to have my indian ranger slaughter the lot of them, I liked that, despite being an obvious moral choice there was still some consequence. Namely the whole town turning hostile(including the lift operator ), aka the folks you came here to save. Old habits die hard when it comes to highpool lol, good riddance.

Forgot to mention,

Spoiler

if you choose that route I'd watch out if you return to the lift and kill the operator, there's a guy down below that is almost impossible to kill. When I put my rangers on the lift and sent them down they were unable to get off of it or shoot. The just stood there for a couple of turns until Angela had enough of inxile's shit and lost control, her ai was able to kill the guy down below. But yeah, watch out, I imagine if you don't have her as a companion you'd probably be fucked there.

 

[RPGMaster]

When is this coming out on XBOX?

 

[hiver]

God dammit, you figured out my plan didn't you?

pah! Of course... professor Moriarty. You thought to put one up over me eh? hah!
Youll be pulling those lines.... in jail.
ta-daaaa.... (austin powers jump)

Yeah, that whole area is a mess right now...

Let's bring up an example, saving the drowning kid. Yes, I know the set-up of that mission is kind of funny and I too laugh heartily at the comic Roguey posted, but what about the mission structure?

Spoiler

1. Follow Jessie or not. If you leave the area instead of following here, Ralphy drowns, Jessie goes back to Atchinson camp, but the Rangers are never seen near Ralphy and Jessie is not part of the Topekan camp so no one blames you

2. When you've reached Ralphy, you can save him using brute force or a shovel around the totem. The wrong totem knocks him out and kills him.

3. The witness that spots you saving him or letting him die/killing him, you can shoot him before he runs back and the negative reaction of the town is not triggered.

4. If you do save Ralphy, Jessie and Ralphy run to the playground and discuss leaving the camp. If you go up there with high enough perception you can spot the bomb rigged to the bike, if Angela is with you she'll spot it and remark on it. You can defuse it before either kid gets close to it. If you don't, Jessie runs up to it and dies. If you do, she goes back to Atchinson camp.

5. If you let Ralphy die and let the witness live, his mother will attack you. If you let Ralphy die and killed the witness, she won't know what happened. If you saved Ralphy, she'll be grateful and he can become a follower.

6. If you go up to Atchinson, you can spot a coffee can bomb in the leader's hut similar to the one on the bike. If the bomb killed Jessie you can confront him about it. If you saved Jessie from the bomb, similar, but with a different reaction. If you let Ralphy drown so that sequence never happened, it doesn't come up here.

I'm not even sure I covered all the nodes and possibilities there. And this is just some random small mission to open a map. But yeah, it points to what Infy is saying; there is C&C in the sense of making choices and having consequences, but there's also a lot of reactivity; depending on the skills you have, the companions you have and the order in which you do things, this simple quests has very, very different ways of playing out. Looking at all the nodes, it looks like there's about 6 different ways it plays out depending your skills and choices, and that's not counting how it impacts the later quest.

What is this? Huh?

My troops of spies and infiltrators have failed me?

Youre all on cut pay for next two months!

 

[felipepepe]

Is it too vague to have a huge building where it would be preferable if you go through the front door instead of one of the side-doors that is either locked or guarded?

It was Daedalos9000 that complained about it, butthurt is clouding you reading.

Also why wouldn't you think it may have negative consequences to mess around with a generator you have no idea what is for.

Guess we should've provided quest markers.

You really think that's as intended and in line with the game's design so far? That you simply click on a generator for more info, and it blows up and forever locks you away from the most important NPC in the area? Because Wasteland 2 has been extremely hardcore so far, right? And it's okay that the lights going out means that you can't speak with a important NPC anymore because they can't see you, but start a fight and they all attack and aim perfectly?

Besides, there are more issues in the area, that's why I say it is a mess. I was talking about how you can simply click on all the dialog options without any consequences, and that's so true that you can tell the other tribe's leader that he killed the girl and make him abandon the war, AND give him the Golden Spike, to that he replies he will make peace AND tell that you killed the other leader, to what he replies very arrogantly that we'll now march into the compound and win the war. And if you do all that at once, the quest bugs out and stays as if you didn't finish it.

Not to mention other issues I had, like a Rail Thug in combat bugging out and walking forever and never ending his turn; junkies that were hostile but only attacked when I went BEHIND them, and the game-killing bug that reloading a save in that area made my character's custom portrait go white and I was unable to save anymore.

So yeah, the area's a mess. Is easily the one I get the more bugs and crashes, all properly reported to the beta website, along with more than 30 other bugs and suggestions. Which makes the all-hating felipepepe responsible for more than 1% of all the feedback you guys got so far from thousand of players. You're welcome, InXile representative.

I'm not sure you've played the game enough times to know that. Have you tried, I dunno, helping the guys in Highpool in a different order? Certainly that couldn't change things, because the game has nothing of that. Nothing I tellsya!

Obviously I don't know as much of it as you do, but I played more than 15 hours so far, enduring the many times that bugs killed my game and I had to restart with a new party. Should be enough to see some nice reactivity on a game that Fargo says that "It’s a virtual impossibility for two people to have the exact same experience of the game”, but clearly it isn't, neither for nor for other people on this thread.

Should we all have to beat the beta 7 times before talking about it now? I thought this was a impressions thread, not a Official Codex Review or something like that.

I think some of y'all are overstating things badly. Yes, C&C needs to be better and yes, these starting areas and story sequence is very linear compared to the rest of the game , but to claim there's no C&C (or rather, no C&C except for the big starting choice and the Rail Nomad faction choice, aka "if we ignore these big instances of C&C, there's no C&C!") is just unfairly giving people here who don't have it the wrong impression.

Again, "It’s a virtual impossibility for two people to have the exact same experience of the game”, 2 big choices after 8 hours of game is not that. And you clearly agree that the Rail Nomad's Faction is the other C&C note of choice, since you choose part of it as an example in your post.

(believe that or not, but for those that don't, I assume you're the same people who refused to believe me when I said not every map was similarly corridor-like as the Prison, lemme know how that held up)

Game company with no decent game in the backlog promises a rebirth of old-school RPGs and makes a extremely linear and bad demo, while their PR says "don't worry, the full game will be better, we purposely chose the worst area we had!". Forgive me for being skeptical.

Besides, although Ag. Center and Topekhans areas are great, Highpool and Acthison areas are quite linear, so we're 50/50.

Let's bring up an example, saving the drowning kid. Yes, I know the set-up of that mission is kind of funny and I too laugh heartily at the comic Roguey posted, but what about the mission structure?

Spoiler

1. Follow Jessie or not. If you leave the area instead of following here, Ralphy drowns, Jessie goes back to Atchinson camp, but the Rangers are never seen near Ralphy and Jessie is not part of the Topekan camp so no one blames you

2. When you've reached Ralphy, you can save him using brute force or a shovel around the totem. The wrong totem knocks him out and kills him.

3. The witness that spots you saving him or letting him die/killing him, you can shoot him before he runs back and the negative reaction of the town is not triggered.

4. If you do save Ralphy, Jessie and Ralphy run to the playground and discuss leaving the camp. If you go up there with high enough perception you can spot the bomb rigged to the bike, if Angela is with you she'll spot it and remark on it. You can defuse it before either kid gets close to it. If you don't, Jessie runs up to it and dies. If you do, she goes back to Atchinson camp.

5. If you let Ralphy die and let the witness live, his mother will attack you. If you let Ralphy die and killed the witness, she won't know what happened. If you saved Ralphy, she'll be grateful and he can become a follower.

6. If you go up to Atchinson, you can spot a coffee can bomb in the leader's hut similar to the one on the bike. If the bomb killed Jessie you can confront him about it. If you saved Jessie from the bomb, similar, but with a different reaction. If you let Ralphy drown so that sequence never happened, it doesn't come up here.

I'm not even sure I covered all the nodes and possibilities there. And this is just some random small mission to open a map. But yeah, it points to what Infy is saying; there is C&C in the sense of making choices and having consequences, but there's also a lot of reactivity; depending on the skills you have, the companions you have and the order in which you do things, this simple quests has very, very different ways of playing out. Looking at all the nodes, it looks like there's about 6 different ways it plays out depending your skills and choices, and that's not counting how it impacts the later quest.

Note that I provide one example of the lack of reactivity and shitty waste of potential, and instead of telling me how I missed all the reactivity there, you give another example. So we can agree that Ag. Center reactivity sucks?

But I concede to you there, there's reactivity in there, true.

But that's not a random small mission on a open map; you get that quest as soon as you enter the area, it leads all the way up to solving the war between the two tribes (the main event on the area), and it's probably the most reactive one in the entire beta. You say that I'm overstating things badly and giving people reading the wrong impression, but you're doing the opposite and understating them badly. Someone reading my post thinks that there's no reactivity whatsoever in the game, and that have been proved false. But someone reading yours will think that your example is just one of the countless examples of reactivity in the beta, and that's also false. The difference is, I'm just a customer posting my impressions with a game, with no obligations whatsoever; while you're a PR guy, by definition biased towards your company. None of our opinions should be taken as TEH TRUTH about the game, they are complementary; and that's why when Infinitron mentioned about making a review of the beta, I told him that I thought it should be written by two people, just like the Blackguards review.

(Also, even my casual feedback is better than that what "professional reviewers" are saying like fights taking almost one hour... you gonna run there all tell him that only a braindead monkey would take that much, and that he's misleading his readers? :3)

In the end, you should really blame your boss' big mouth. The game is fun, and I've been saying that since I've started playing, but its clearly in Alpha stage still (vide countless "X is not implemented yet"). And if you read anything Fargo ever said about it, like how the focus is C&C, it blows BioWare out of the water, no one will play the same game, and all that hype talk , then the game is a disappointment, that so far fails to deliver what it promised. The potential for a great game is there, but will all depend on how the feedback is handled and implemented, and I doubt that being overly defensive is of any help.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Would make sense for the generator to asplode because you tried to fuck with it via skill and borked the thing, but simply for clicking on it seems a bit much.

Don't let your rangers ger separated. If battle is initiated while they are, an invisible blue barrier is erected so that your other rangers cannot enter the battle and the game pretty much 'soft locks' if your separated ranger goes unconscious.

I wonder if that invisible blue barrier can ward off invisible pink unicorns.

 

[stony3k]

Wasteland 2 in steam bestsellers has fallen back to the 3rd position

They probably sold about 10k or so copies if not more, which is a cool half million cash. So I wouldn't worry too much about sales slowing down

 

[hiver]

Is it too vague to have a huge building where it would be preferable if you go through the front door instead of one of the side-doors that is either locked or guarded?

It was Daedalos9000 that complained about it, butthurt is clouding you reading.

Also why wouldn't you think it may have negative consequences to mess around with a generator you have no idea what is for.

Guess we should've provided quest markers.

You really think that's as intended and in line with the game's design so far? That you simply click on a generator for more info, and it blows up and forever locks you away from the most important NPC in the area? Because Wasteland 2 has been extremely hardcore so far, right? And it's okay that the lights going out means that you can't speak with a important NPC anymore because they can't see you, but start a fight and they all attack and aim perfectly?

Besides, there are more issues in the area, that's why I say it is a mess. I was talking about how you can simply click on all the dialog options without any consequences, and that's so true that you can tell the other tribe's leader that he killed the girl and make him abandon the war, AND give him the Golden Spike, to that he replies he will make peace AND tell that you killed the other leader, to what he replies very arrogantly that we'll now march into the compound and win the war. And if you do all that at once, the quest bugs out and stays as if you didn't finish it.

Not to mention other issues I had, like a Rail Thug in combat bugging out and walking forever and never ending his turn; junkies that were hostile but only attacked when I went BEHIND them, and the game-killing bug that reloading a save in that area made my character's custom portrait go white and I was unable to save anymore.

So yeah, the area's a mess. Is easily the one I get the more bugs and crashes, all properly reported to the beta website, along with more than 30 other bugs and suggestions. Which makes the all-hating felipepepe responsible for more than 1% of all the feedback you guys got so far from thousand of players. You're welcome, InXile representative.

I'm not sure you've played the game enough times to know that. Have you tried, I dunno, helping the guys in Highpool in a different order? Certainly that couldn't change things, because the game has nothing of that. Nothing I tellsya!

Obviously I don't know as much of it as you do, but I played more than 15 hours so far, enduring the many times that bugs killed my game and I had to restart with a new party. Should be enough to see some nice reactivity on a game that Fargo says that "It’s a virtual impossibility for two people to have the exact same experience of the game”, but clearly it isn't, neither for nor for other people on this thread.

Should we all have to beat the beta 7 times before talking about it now? I thought this was a impressions thread, not a Official Codex Review or something like that.

I think some of y'all are overstating things badly. Yes, C&C needs to be better and yes, these starting areas and story sequence is very linear compared to the rest of the game , but to claim there's no C&C (or rather, no C&C except for the big starting choice and the Rail Nomad faction choice, aka "if we ignore these big instances of C&C, there's no C&C!") is just unfairly giving people here who don't have it the wrong impression.

Again, "It’s a virtual impossibility for two people to have the exact same experience of the game”, 2 big choices after 8 hours of game is not that. And you clearly agree that the Rail Nomad's Faction is the other C&C note of choice, since you choose part of it as an example in your post.

(believe that or not, but for those that don't, I assume you're the same people who refused to believe me when I said not every map was similarly corridor-like as the Prison, lemme know how that held up)

Game company with no decent game in the backlog promises a rebirth of old-school RPGs and makes a extremely linear and bad demo, while their PR says "don't worry, the full game will be better, we purposely chose the worst area we had!". Forgive me for being skeptical.

Besides, although Ag. Center and Topekhans areas are great, Highpool and Acthison areas are quite linear, so we're 50/50.

Let's bring up an example, saving the drowning kid. Yes, I know the set-up of that mission is kind of funny and I too laugh heartily at the comic Roguey posted, but what about the mission structure?

Spoiler

1. Follow Jessie or not. If you leave the area instead of following here, Ralphy drowns, Jessie goes back to Atchinson camp, but the Rangers are never seen near Ralphy and Jessie is not part of the Topekan camp so no one blames you

2. When you've reached Ralphy, you can save him using brute force or a shovel around the totem. The wrong totem knocks him out and kills him.

3. The witness that spots you saving him or letting him die/killing him, you can shoot him before he runs back and the negative reaction of the town is not triggered.

4. If you do save Ralphy, Jessie and Ralphy run to the playground and discuss leaving the camp. If you go up there with high enough perception you can spot the bomb rigged to the bike, if Angela is with you she'll spot it and remark on it. You can defuse it before either kid gets close to it. If you don't, Jessie runs up to it and dies. If you do, she goes back to Atchinson camp.

5. If you let Ralphy die and let the witness live, his mother will attack you. If you let Ralphy die and killed the witness, she won't know what happened. If you saved Ralphy, she'll be grateful and he can become a follower.

6. If you go up to Atchinson, you can spot a coffee can bomb in the leader's hut similar to the one on the bike. If the bomb killed Jessie you can confront him about it. If you saved Jessie from the bomb, similar, but with a different reaction. If you let Ralphy drown so that sequence never happened, it doesn't come up here.

I'm not even sure I covered all the nodes and possibilities there. And this is just some random small mission to open a map. But yeah, it points to what Infy is saying; there is C&C in the sense of making choices and having consequences, but there's also a lot of reactivity; depending on the skills you have, the companions you have and the order in which you do things, this simple quests has very, very different ways of playing out. Looking at all the nodes, it looks like there's about 6 different ways it plays out depending your skills and choices, and that's not counting how it impacts the later quest.

Note that I provide one example of the lack of reactivity and shitty waste of potential, and instead of telling me how I missed all the reactivity there, you give another example. So we can agree that Ag. Center reactivity sucks?

But I concede to you there, there's reactivity in there, true.

But that's not a random small mission on a open map; you get that quest as soon as you enter the area, it leads all the way up to solving the war between the two tribes (the main event on the area), and it's probably the most reactive one in the entire beta. You say that I'm overstating things badly and giving people reading the wrong impression, but you're doing the opposite and understating them badly. Someone reading my post thinks that there's no reactivity whatsoever in the game, and that have been proved false. But someone reading yours will think that your example is just one of the countless examples of reactivity in the beta, and that's also false. The difference is, I'm just a customer posting my impressions with a game, with no obligations whatsoever; while you're a PR guy, by definition biased towards your company. None of our opinions should be taken as TEH TRUTH about the game, they are complementary; and that's why when Infinitron mentioned about making a review of the beta, I told him that I thought it should be written by two people, just like the Blackguards review.

(Also, even my casual feedback is better than that what "professional reviewers" are saying like fights taking almost one hour... you gonna run there all tell him that only a braindead monkey would take that much, and that he's misleading his readers? :3)

In the end, you should really blame your boss' big mouth. The game is fun, and I've been saying that since I've started playing, but its clearly in Alpha stage still (vide countless "X is not implemented yet"). And if you read anything Fargo ever said about it, like how the focus is C&C, it blows BioWare out of the water, no one will play the same game, and all that hype talk , then the game is a disappointment, that so far fails to deliver what it promised. The potential for a great game is there, but will all depend on how the feedback is handled and implemented, and I doubt that being overly defensive is of any help.

- best post of the thread.

felipepe stays on lifetime raise in pay.
(i pay in pure incline of course)

 

[Grunker]

felipepe pays to test out company's game for them, gives valuable detailed feedback

company representative replies with snarky comeback

10/10 reaction

Seriously, sometimes it might be better to react with a realist approach to problems in order to align expectations, contrary to always raise shields for defensive mode. I can understand brushing off idiots who shitpost and spew subjective bile about how they don't like the game because of their tastes, but felipepepe man? I don't know a more honest dude for feedback. Saying stuff like "3D cam is a non-issue because of area design" then suddenly changing it to "things change, mang" (proving the initial response right) gets to people, now along with dickslapping of a genuine poster who dedicates a bunch of his time to actually reporting shit and giving feedback on your BETA (how many fucking players honestly do that much?)... come on, bruv.

I presume you released the BETA for a reason, instead of waiting for the full release?

 

[Crooked Bee]

From Generation XTH to Blackguards and now Wasteland 2, felipepepe has been really great at testing and giving knowledgeable feedback, and incredibly patient given all the bugs and crashes he's had to experience.

I suggest we vote him Codexer of the Year or something, because he actually (and actively) tries to contribute towards the incline.

 

[SuicideBunny]

Spoiler

4. If you do save Ralphy, Jessie and Ralphy run to the playground and discuss leaving the camp. If you go up there with high enough perception you can spot the bomb rigged to the bike, if Angela is with you she'll spot it and remark on it. You can defuse it before either kid gets close to it. If you don't, Jessie runs up to it and dies. If you do, she goes back to Atchinson camp.

Spoiler

it's really fucking stupid how you can't tell those two darwin award winners that there is a bomb but instead have to fiddle with the toolbar (you need more bar slots, btw) to change a slot to demolition while watching their conversation and see jessie blow herself up out of stupidity just about when you are halfway into using the skill. that whole area is friggin gamey design that encourages wading through it once then reloading and doing it "better", which kinda sucks.

 

[AstroZombie]

Looking at the "reviews" on the game's Steam Community page makes me appreciate felipepe's posts even more.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

best post of the thread.

Not sure this has ever happened before but...

...I was thinking the exact same thing.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Now I know why hiver isn't showing up on Twinkiegorilla's ignore list. He is possessing Twinkie. They have become one.

fucking called it

 

[felipepepe]

I'm blushing guys.

And getting this much love after confronting a fellow codexer no-mutant feels wrong... although incredibly codexian.

 

[Infinitron]

OK, since I share some responsibility in convincing Brother None to respond to allegations about the game here, I should probably say something.

felipepe pays to test out company's game for them, gives valuable detailed feedback

company representative replies with snarky comeback

10/10 reaction

I think you're overreacting. His post wasn't any more snarky than usual for the Codex. This pile-up is kind of unwarranted.

 

[Tigranes]

Making mountains out of molehills here, BN has a valid point in the sense that I couldn't have guessed at those various options related to the drowning kid.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

BN got a fair share of brofists for his post as well, it's not really a pileup.

But snark or not, he is still being dismissive of a guy giving genuine feedback.