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Wasteland The Wasteland 2 Beta Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Toffeli

Atomkrieg, ja bitte
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Feb 24, 2011
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Nordic Mongolia
Wasteland 2
Welp, just encountered the AG Center bug which crashes the game after you've completed the mission and try to leave the building.
Goddammit :mad: That bug can seriously suck my nuts.

I figured out what causes this bug. I went through the Ag Center bit by bit, testing between every action whether it was still possible to leave the Central Complex. The cause is saving Julio from the fucking rabbits. Something about entering the Western Greenhouse, making your way to Julio, killing the rabbits, ending the quest by speaking to Julio, or talking to Julio about Doc Larsen, has to be the cause of this bug. I submitted a bug report to Centercode with my game files from before and after saving Julio, with that being the only difference. The bug report is WLCC-2864.

Have you managed to bypass it? I have the same thing, but haven't even done the western part yet, only eastern. And don't think I even can. Doesn't it require explosives, to break the wall and to go forward? I only have RPG, but no ammo.

Other bugs I've seen are the second to last fan switch on the eastern tunnel doesn't seem to work properly. I could turn it on or off once, but nothing after that. Had to load the game again to turn it off. Also on the eastern farms after turning the valve, and after fighting against 9 pod persons, I saved the game and q in the middle of uit the game. And after loading there were again almost the same amount pod persons, and one even spawned right in the middle of my squad.
 

aratuk

Cipher
Joined
Dec 13, 2013
Messages
466
Welp, just encountered the AG Center bug which crashes the game after you've completed the mission and try to leave the building.
Goddammit :mad: That bug can seriously suck my nuts.

I figured out what causes this bug. I went through the Ag Center bit by bit, testing between every action whether it was still possible to leave the Central Complex. The cause is saving Julio from the fucking rabbits. Something about entering the Western Greenhouse, making your way to Julio, killing the rabbits, ending the quest by speaking to Julio, or talking to Julio about Doc Larsen, has to be the cause of this bug. I submitted a bug report to Centercode with my game files from before and after saving Julio, with that being the only difference. The bug report is WLCC-2864.

Have you managed to bypass it? I have the same thing, but haven't even done the western part yet, only eastern. And don't think I even can. Doesn't it require explosives, to break the wall and to go forward? I only have RPG, but no ammo.

Other bugs I've seen are the second to last fan switch on the eastern tunnel doesn't seem to work properly. I could turn it on or off once, but nothing after that. Had to load the game again to turn it off. Also on the eastern farms after turning the valve, and after fighting against 9 pod persons, I saved the game and q in the middle of uit the game. And after loading there were again almost the same amount pod persons, and one even spawned right in the middle of my squad.

In the meantime, here's a workaround. After trying to exit the central complex and the game crashing (in order to update your autosave), go and edit the xml file in your Autosave folder so that <whichScene>AZ01_CentralComplex</whichScene> reads <whichScene>AZ01_KillingFields</whichScene>. Load the autosave and you'll be outside.
 

Black

Arcane
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Messages
1,872,805
o6tQfPW.png


GET YOUR REFUND
 

Toffeli

Atomkrieg, ja bitte
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Wasteland 2
In the meantime, here's a workaround. After trying to exit the central complex and the game crashing (in order to update your autosave), go and edit the xml file in your Autosave folder so that <whichScene>AZ01_CentralComplex</whichScene> reads <whichScene>AZ01_KillingFields</whichScene>. Load the autosave and you'll be outside.
OK, cool.:)
 

Black

Arcane
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May 8, 2007
Messages
1,872,805
I doubt "like Fallout 3" can any any negative connotations at IGN.
 

sea

inXile Entertainment
Developer
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
5,698
Where's my trailer quote, dammit? So you're going to pick those RPS and IGN harlots over me?! Just once in my life, I'd like to get quoted on a box or in a trailer! I've drank so much Mountain Dew and eaten so many bags of Doritos I'm gonna be sick! IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK FOR, THOMAS, YOU BASTARD?!?

:rage:
 
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
1,567
They're just wording it in a nice way that doesn't cause any anal hemorrahging to the retarded Fallout 3 fans. It's actually meant to read: What Fallout 3 would be like if Bethesda didn't turn it into a hiking sim.
 

Oesophagus

Arcane
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Nov 19, 2010
Messages
2,330
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around
Where's my trailer quote, dammit? So you're going to pick those RPS and IGN harlots over me?! Just once in my life, I'd like to get quoted on a box or in a trailer! I've drank so much Mountain Dew and eaten so many bags of Doritos I'm gonna be sick! IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK FOR, THOMAS, YOU BASTARD?!?

:rage:

'meh... good for what it is' - rpgcodex

high praise right there
 

felipepepe

Codex's Heretic
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Terra da Garoa
There are so many fucking oases, it's like the land of milk and honey. Radiation and mountains mean there aren't that many walkable zones.

I had the same thought. Really, what's the point to even having an overworld map at this point? Water is intended to be a scarce resource, yet it is available around every turn. The radiation clouds can just be walked through and then you heal up after spending a few minutes running around a town or using a doctor. You can't discover towns without advancing the plot to reveal them.

So no exploration, no risk, no reward (lol caches)... what's the point?

I could see it working if the map was either 10x larger and nearly absent of oases or you could carry considerably less water. A trek out into the wastes should be an ordeal, something not taken lightly, something requiring lots of advance planning and preparation. Currently there is no reason not to full-clear the map for all of the caches and random encounted xp/loot the second you leave Ranger Citadel for the first time, and that just doesn't make any sense.
The water system is currently broken and doesn't consider how many characters you have.

If you play solo, you'll only have one canteen, and going from Ranger's HQ to the Radio Tower already leaves you without water, unless you refill the oasis on the way. Playing with 7 characters, you'll have 7x more water, but the consumption rate is the same of only one character; you can walk across the entire map without needing to stop on a oasis.

Try exploring the world map solo, the lack of water makes it pretty challenging. I hope they make it that way for all party sizes.

Also, to further make a point against health regen, if you're exploring and run out of water, you'll start to take damage. Take too much and a character will go into critical stage, like being comatose. You can still explore the map even with a comatose character, and if you enter a area and wait long enough, he'll regen his HP and revive, without any need for help.
 
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hiver

Guest
how is it possible you never heard of atari burying the worst game of all time?
I know about the big crush but i never delved into any specifics of it.
The worst game of all time?


Anyway, heres a little lets play wasteland 2 from me.



and a few comments on the start of the game, at al.




Character creation:

Generally I like the mechanics of it. Its a tight setup that doesnt let you make builds that have it all. You have to carefully pick and choose since there is very little points to distribute around and a lot of skills to choose from.

Problem being that since it is a combat heavy game the player isnt really inclined to make builds that are not combat oriented.
And as many have already said - awareness and coordination are way to overpowered, compared to the rest of the main attributes.

I did make a few characters with more luck or Int and that does have some affect on things.
I quite like that Luck can give you a few APs more for a single turn.

- But i hate the stupid oversized icon of sparkling horseshoe that magically forms over my character. It looks like something from might and magic, or Barbie games.




Skills themselves are nicely numerous BUT... several are quite superfluous and doubled quite unnecessarily.

Field Striping and Weapon smithing should really be one skill, not two. Unless we are to think that a Weapon smith cannot perform any "field stripping" or that someone who is proficient in field striping of weapons then cannot use the mods he got from it - which is just nonsensical.

As are the Field Medic and Surgeon. And computer tech - synth tech, or lockpicking - safe cracking, its all just crude skill bloat for no good purpose at all.

In both cases, there really isnt any point in taking just one of these skills - and having a Surgeon not being capable of applying a bandage or using a blood pack is just ridiculous. Or having a safe cracker incapable of lockpicking a simple lock. etc.

Ive explained all that to Inxile long time ago, but got flamed by several resident morons (who are moderators now) and then banned for seven days for daring to speak to his fucking majesty the awesome line producer.

The gameplay of the game doesnt really support this kind of setup either.



Oh, and the visual representation of character creation sucks donkey balls. As does the inventory.
Its laughably bad. Its horrible. It should all be scrapped entirely.
Its so bad you cannot make it any better by just making some small changes.

The screen where we see the character model is one of the more horrible things of that kind i have ever seen in games. Ever. Why in the hell would the camera angle be set below and looking up to the character model? Why not have the camera above at a close isometric angle - that would correspond with the rest of the game - if that really has to be there at all?

Its jarring by how much its juxtaposing itself over the rest of the game, as if this was some AAA mass market game where the players can get some sort of emotional experience just by looking at blown up, horrible visual representation of the characters.

That this was forced into the inventory itself is just un-fucking-believable.

Inventory and character screen look like it was all put together from parts of three different games. None of which work with any of the others.


Inventory is just BUTT UGLY. There is no other way to describe it. And it works horribly too. All those electric spark effects should go away. And it should be redone completely.


The item list is BUTT UGLY.
All it creates is the need to scroll over and over, up and down - even with all those tabs above it. As an additional joke, when you open the inventory to see and handle your items - they take the least amount of screen space while unnecessary and ugly crap like that "character model screen" which is as nice as a pencil stabbed in your eye, takes the rest of it.

It all lags horribly and clunks all over and just makes you want to punch the screen after five minutes of it.



The start of the game is fine. Gives you a nice little setup where it teaches you some basics. But it would be great if some of the suggestions from kemosabe would be included, as for example that idea of encountering another group of rangers just coming in. (some could even be wounded so you get to train you medical skills - and they should die right there in front of you if you dont have any)



The icon of Earth spinning over a pedestal, that marks the world map transition is BUTT UGLY.
Plus its jarringly out of art style of the rest of the game.
If i didnt know better i would think its just some prop icon InXile bought as a replacement until they make the proper one.

The same goes for that ranger badge spinning as the game is loading.
It should be stationary and just fade in and out as the game loads - instead of spinning around.

The icon of the rangers on the world map could be changed for something better too.



I like the world map travel.

But there are several problems with it, currently.
The first and most glaring one is that the world map is a bunch of corridors.

WHY?

Why am i not able to go over some smaller hills? Whats the point of that?
Is the point of corralling me around into the exact spots the game wants me to go?
Why isnt that just left to the player to decide and reap the benefits or negatives of his decisions?


INSTEAD: make the travel over smaller hills take more time. Make it slow.
So the player himself can choose if he wants to trudge over the hills slowly or go arround.

And if the player misses some Oases or loot - well fuck him. He doesnt really need to find every single last one.

Oasis: First, i can refill water even in Oasis that are marked as being spent. Its probably just a bug of some sort. The bigger problem is that there are way too many oasis around in that "desert".

An Oasis is a very specific thing - in reality. Its a place with steady, more or less continuous source of water - therefore, in a desert, in a situations like post apocalypse - settlements would be built around these sources of WATER.
Yet in this post apocalypse, it seems everyone is happy to live without water - while there are Oasis all over the place.

Therefore: Oasis - should be changed for water springs, or pools, or small ponds and the like - which you can find in a desert. (and some of those should be poisoned or spent easily). How many do you find, or do you find any at all - should depend on the Outdorsman skill.

While actual Oasis should be inhabited or contested over - instead of just being everywhere around waiting just for the player to come around.


Outdorsman :

Has absolutely no influence on stashes and oases you can find.
It just gives you an option to run away from encounters - which are generally too easy in the starting area. The only enemy that killed me was Rail thieves - all the rest can be handled easily, with just the starting weapons and skills.

As soon as one gets better weapons and some armor, the rail thieves will be nothing more then easy loot and XP - which all the random encounters so far are.
There really is no incentive to avoid them - at all.


Combat:

While there is no need to make a "JA clone" about combat - that doesnt mean the combat has to be as simplified as it is now. Seeing how most of the game content is combat - i dont see whats the bloody purpose of combat as it is.
It could very well be RTwP at this point.

Guess its nice to see a game like Age of Decadence wiping the floor with multimillion, professional team creation.
Across the board, not just in TB combat.
The art style, the quality of art, the design of areas - all leaves W2 choking in dust.



Environment art:

The environment design of W2 is UGLY. The brightness and saturation option do not make it look any better - and its especially funny that the brightness is at the lowest minimum by default - and everything in the game is still glowing.

And im not really convinced its just due to the engine either.
Especially when we can see what can be done in the old Torque. When a better artist is doing it.
 

felipepepe

Codex's Heretic
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Terra da Garoa
FFS sea, the eurogamer guy is being more harsh than you.

:rpgcodex:

Also, Hiver gonna Hiver, but I fully agree with this:

Skills themselves are nicely numerous BUT... several are quite superfluous and doubled quite unnecessarily.

Field Striping and Weapon smithing should really be one skill, not two. Unless we are to think that a Weapon smith cannot perform any "field stripping" or that someone who is proficient in field striping of weapons then cannot use the mods he got from it - which is just nonsensical.

As are the Field Medic and Surgeon. And computer tech - synth tech, or lockpicking - safe cracking, its all just crude skill bloat for no good purpose at all.

In both cases, there really isnt any point in taking just one of these skills - and having a Surgeon not being capable of applying a bandage or using a blood pack is just ridiculous. Or having a safe cracker incapable of lockpicking a simple lock. etc.

Ive explained all that to Inxile long time ago, but got flamed by several resident morons (who are moderators now) and then banned for seven days for daring to speak to his fucking majesty the awesome line producer.

The gameplay of the game doesnt really support this kind of setup either.
A Lv 1 Medic should be able to use bandages, a Lv 3 to use bloodpacks and a Lv 5 to "revive" characters. Same thing for the lockpicking skills. The way it is now makes no sense at all.
 
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Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
FFS sea, the eurogamer guy is being more harsh than you.

I don't see it. On the contrary, the Eurogamer guy ends his preview on a very warm and fuzzy note, while sea's preview ends with the implication that inXile might conceivably fail to live up to their promises, with an entire page full of criticisms.
 

skyst

Augur
Joined
Jul 26, 2010
Messages
294
Location
Philadelphia, PA

That makes some sense, I will have to check it out as a solo. Unfortunately, you're still just playing connect the dots from oasis to oasis this way, right? The whole water/oasis system feels gimmicky and forced as hell to me, like they wanted some survival aspect in the game and just cooked it up at the last minute.

I gave some feedback to them already about weak/useless skills (interestingly almost hiver's post verbatim, to the point where I question if he is spying on me!), but I would prefer seeing some interesting character-oriented ways of surviving in the wastes and finding water instead of just clicking around the map with no real relation to the characters you built. Outdoorsman is the obvious solution, especially since it is practically useless otherwise currently. Perhaps other skills could have survival applications as well, like the Shovel skill! Dig for water! Seriously, Shovel gets more use in this game than half of the skills combined.

It would require extensively changing travel and will probably get some hate on here, but a travel system that took notes from Expeditions: Conquistador could really work well in WL2. You get so much movement per day on the map, with distance travelled bound to the team's skills (Outdoorsman and Perception, limited by the lowest Speed of the party, etc), until you need to camp. Camping would provide an oppotunity for even more sweet, sweet skill usage to find water, scout, salvage, guard so on and so forth. The team seems to want tons of skills in this game but obviously can't find good uses for them as is.
 

sea

inXile Entertainment
Developer
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
5,698
Field Striping and Weapon smithing should really be one skill, not two. Unless we are to think that a Weapon smith cannot perform any "field stripping" or that someone who is proficient in field striping of weapons then cannot use the mods he got from it - which is just nonsensical.

As are the Field Medic and Surgeon. And computer tech - synth tech, or lockpicking - safe cracking, its all just crude skill bloat for no good purpose at all.
It's a bit strange, but I think the reason for this is to help balance the skills. There is a greater investment required here in order to achieve worthwhile results. Weapon mods or the ability to heal using fewer items, or remove status effects, are all very powerful abilities. Same reason Lockpicking and Safecracking get split up.

If anything, I think appealing to realism is a bad idea for RPG character system design and often leads to more pointless over-complication than not (i.e. synergies, different types of skill points, use-based leveling, etc. that never really improves the game but simply exists to justify the system making more sense).

Why am i not able to go over some smaller hills? Whats the point of that?
Yeah I had the same feedback, and mentioned Expeditions: Conquistador as a reference for map travel where inaccessible terrain is more clearly marked. The world map needs to make it more clear where you can and can't go.

It just gives you an option to run away from encounters - which are generally too easy in the starting area. The only enemy that killed me was Rail thieves - all the rest can be handled easily, with just the starting weapons and skills.
I think that Outdoorsman affects your water consumption/max amount, as well as travel speed and radar range.

I do like how most of your complaints are QQing about the graphics, by the way.
 
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felipepepe

Codex's Heretic
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Unfortunately, you're still just playing connect the dots from oasis to oasis this way, right?
More or less... some areas have few oasis, so that exploring them solo is extremely dangerous. Obviously, once you know where the oasis are, it becomes connect the dots, and since they are always in the same place, consequent playthroughs lose a lot.

Outdoorsman should control how fast & far can you go. And then hidden caches & secret areas should be placed far from oasis, so that only a pro outsdoormen can reach it.
 
Self-Ejected

Excidium

P. banal
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
13,696
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Third World
Valid complaints anyway, more useful than the others that everyone has already called over and over, I told this game had a horrible skill bloat the day they announced the skill list.

And yes, they could really do with some more subdued effects. Don't understand why they need that huge area transition symbol. Some guy on a stream I was watching thought it was a collectible thing. :lol:
 
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hiver

Guest
There is no reason to double the skills to balance anything. The same can be done by requiring more skill points to be spent to achieve specific capabilities.
Its just feature bloat and it creates a nonsensical meaning since you are practically forced to invest in two skills - which is the same as there being one.

The world map needs to make it more clear where you can and can't go.
The really high mountains are clear enough. All the rest should be traversable - with duration (and therefore water consumption) increasing as the "difficulty" of the terrain changes.

I think that Outdoorsman affects your water consumption/max amount, as well as travel speed and radar range.
Both nonsensical and superfluous because of the way these mechanics were implemented.

I do like how most of your complaints are QQing about the graphics, by the way.
No shit?

I thought they were about design and quality of art of it and the game in general.


- i havent played far enough to comment on different areas and quests and C&C. And i clearly said that.

As far as i could see now though, the health regen is not that big of a problem since its very slow. For example.
Usually i simply cant be bothered to wait that long - especially because there is no real danger of going onwards even when wounded a bit, but it does present a potential problem for later on, where presumably, you would be in some situations where you can abuse it - by getting in a tight jam and then simply going off to make a samich and coffee - while your team nicely regenerates.



But there is nothing else to be said by me right now, since i havent played more then i just described.

Ill have plenty to say later on. And there will be more awesome VISCERAL videos too.
I just need to cut and montage a few really awesome moments in combat to make another citizen kane quickie.
 
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
1,567
INSTEAD: make the travel over smaller hills take more time. Make it slow.
So the player himself can choose if he wants to trudge over the hills slowly or go arround.


Therefore: Oasis - should be changed for water springs, or pools, or small ponds and the like - which you can find in a desert. (and some of those should be poisoned or spent easily). How many do you find, or do you find any at all - should depend on the Outdorsman skill.

While actual Oasis should be inhabited or contested over - instead of just being everywhere around waiting just for the player to come around.
These are good points/suggestions, everything else is a bit overblown and whiney. Art direction has been a constant from the beginning, we all knew what it would look like. We even had that butthurt Russian artist and his alcohol analogies(DRUNK! Like a pig!). So i don't expect the art to change much, and I think the general consensus is that most people didn't care very much in any case.
The numerous skills that do somewhat similar things are on purpose, I don't mind it, it harkens back to W1, except this time they actually all have uses. It's a nice contrast to PoE's super trim utilitarian skills. I wouldn't trim any skills, I like them the way they are.


Unrelated to that rant, and this should probably be a bug report but idc I'm saying it here, there's a really annoying bug where your first ranger is impossible to select on the hotbar. You have to select his actual avatar and not his icon, it's annoying, fix it. There's no issue for the other 3, just the first one.
 

hiver

Guest
Go suck donkey cocks faggot. Your mom is overblown and whiney.


- one thing i forgot to mention is that i really like the backpack thing because it makes it easy to transfer items from one team member to another.
A real refreshment over the idiotic inventory horrendous "mechanics".
 

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