Wasteland The Wasteland 2 Beta Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[FeelTheRads]

So what? Skyrim ones aren't, in my book. That makes you a faggot.

Imagine in Torment 2 with like 15 writers or something how many knees will be wounded.

 

[sser]

In a miserable desertland where shooting frequently takes the place of dialogue, I'd imagine most people could fieldstrip a firearm, particularly if they ever wanted to use it for long. They cover that boyscout shit in basic training, 'rangers' would presumably do the same. Weaponsmithing is a different matter, and in fact weaponsmiths would probably be very highly sought after individuals in a post-apoc world. Anybody who could take a piece of junk and turn it into a long-ranged killer would be near invaluable. Fieldstripping ain't a skill, no more than knowing how to stay hydrated or when to change out your marching socks.

Differentiating between lockpicking and safe-cracking is also kind of silly. They should really fall under the same scope of mechanical skills. I seriously doubt anybody who is vested enough to learn how to crack a safe didn't get there without picking a lock or two. That's a very natural progression, really.

A lot of these skill sets could be under the same 'tree', as field medic would probably be a stepping stone to surgeon, but not the otherway around - same for field stripping and lockpicking.

 

[skuphundaku]

Being a gunsmith doesn't mean just putting a gun together from parts. Putting it back together after stripping it to parts is the same skill as taking it apart in the first place. Also, it's important to note that field stripping is different from stripping a gun down to its nuts and bolts. Field stripping is usually a simple process, that can be done without tools, or, at most, with a limited number of tools and that is done just to do regular maintenance or fix easy to fix issues such as jams and such. Taking a gun apart completely is more complicated and will, most of the time, require tools. The main skill in field stripping is to be able to do it quick, without the need to understand that much about how the gun functions.

On the other hand, a gunsmith can build a gun not just from parts, but from raw materials because of his understanding of its functioning principles and design principles. The gunsmith is to somebody who field strips a gun like the architect and structural engineer together are to the common bricklayer.

If you dissemble a gun and you don't know what you're doing, you may lose parts (pins, springs etc) or damage them (some high end optics). You can install a scope badly and then wonder why the fuck it's not holding zero correctly.

You're really missing the point of the argument. The actions are so similar in scope that there is no reason for them to not be the same skill. You argue that Field Stripping is a simple process done without necessarily understanding the gun's functionality while a Gunsmith fully understands a firearm, could build one from scratch and is the structural engineer of ranged death. So explain to me why a Gunsmith can't Field Strip a firearm? This is the same basic argument as with Field Medic and Surgeon.

Also, if I need Field Stripping for regular maintenance, fixing jams and such, why can my party of Rangers without a Field Stripper use aged, prewar firearms in the field desert for extensive periods of time without worrying about a jam? Why don't I need training to load or operate a firearm at all? I have never handled one in real life and probably couldn't load an SMG properly, yet Ralphie can with no skill investment.

To the people who are adamantly defending having these multiple skills, do you think that some other skills should be split into different abilities? The most obvious example that comes to mind is Computer Tech. Do you really think that you should need different skillsets for unlocking loot containers or healing party members but everything done on a computer is okay to fall under one catagory? My wife has an IT degree from one of the better schools in the USA and is an excellent programmer but she can't fix her PC hardware, while I, an uneducated gamer who loves computers as a hobby, is able to.

Why do I need 2 skills to move a stock from one gun to another but someone half as skilled (say a level 4 vs a level 8 Ranger) could handle all aspects of Computer Tech with equal proficiency? Theoretically, Computer Tech will cover repairing computers, taking apart computers and everything that can be done with a working computer, roughly analogous to Gunsmithing, Field Stripping and one of the weapon proficiencies all rolled into a single skill.

Lastly, Safe Cracking is only an issue for some of you because there are so many safes in the game. Replace them with lockboxes, remove the skill and we're good to go. Safes are typically opened in RPGs without a skill anyway, as the player discovers the combination or uses something like Perception to hear the clicks, I really don't want to continue arguing how hard it is to crack a safe, but I'm fairly certain both methods were used well in Fallout 2 (Raider base south of Vault City).

I was talking about the real-life differences of these two concepts. The problem is that in multiple respects (medicine, computers, weaponry, opening locked containers) the skills differentiation is rather arbitrary and people familiar with these subjects find the skill differentiation quite jarringly out of place.

I agree that the field medic/surgeon thing is ridiculous when a surgeon is unable to do field medicine and I agree that a gunsmith should be able to proficiently do field stripping. As for all the facets of computer technology being rolled all into one, you could split computer tech into hardware engineering/software engineering/networking, for example. However, will you have enough opportunities to use all of them during gameplay? This is, ultimately, a matter of having enough resources to create content that uses all these skills. The crux of the matter is to create a list of skills and make them useful enough to be worth getting and, at the same time, avoiding inconsistencies like those that are present in the skill system right now.

 

[SCO]

So what? Skyrim ones aren't, in my book. That makes you a faggot.

Imagine in Torment 2 with like 15 writers or something how many knees will be wounded.

If writers are actually reading eachothers work, they're serving as editors, and the final work tends to be better. Writing collaborations (either chapter segmented or seamless) tend to be much better than what the weakest writer involved would produce by himself. And with 15 writers, i expect a lot of text and worldbuilding, which is what is most important (for me) for that 'immersion on another world feeling'.

 

[Sensuki]

many knees will be wounded.

Hopefully none. I don't think Colin McComb would let that slide.

 

[Infinitron]

Torment isn't supposed to be a "funny" game, so I wouldn't expect any memes, from Skyrim or anywhere else.

 

[skyst]

However, will you have enough opportunities to use all of them during gameplay? This is, ultimately, a matter of having enough resources to create content that uses all these skills. The crux of the matter is to create a list of skills and make them useful enough to be worth getting and, at the same time, avoiding inconsistencies like those that are present in the skill system right now.

Now we're getting somewhere! I just feel like the current list is already bloated and redundant but if you merge skills then you're more likely to be able to cover all of the options from the start, giving less incentive to multiple play throughs. This issue could be handled by requiring significant investment into skills to do anything useful with them, I suppose. IDK, they really need to put some thought into this.

 

[made]

Torment isn't supposed to be a "funny" game, so I wouldn't expect any memes, from Skyrim or anywhere else.

Meanwhile at inxile:

What can change the nature of a man?

An arrow to the knee!

HURR!

 

[FeelTheRads]

 

[hiver]

Surgeon skill

/ Surgeon skills can be applied indefinite amount of times, in combat, regardless of the number of APs. You spend APs every time you try it, but when you get to Zero APs - you can just keep trying. Indefinitely.

/ If any team member falls down unconscious or wounded, you can just stabilize them - if you need to - and then just leave them lying on the floor while the rest go and do something else. They will just regenerate themselves. No need to worry about it.

/ If you get a wounded knee (a stupid arrow in the knee meme) - the surgeon skill cannot do anything about it. Its impossible.
Because!
Obviously, who could ever expect a surgeon to be able to do anything about a wounded knee, right?



Trading:

Is retarded and it aint a bug. Its by design.

First of, the trading inventory list does not show you ANY weapon or item specifics or numbers. In your inventory you have those polaroid pictures poping up (sometimes since it bugs out) - while at the traders there are none.

Just the stupid list icon, the name, weight and the price.
You guess whats that weapon or item actually is like! Telepathically.

Second, when youre adding stuff from your inventory to the trading tab... if you click on another team member picture, to add their items too... it wipes the weapons and items that you added previously.

Really. Im not joking.
Which means that previous to trading you have to manually move every single item to the inventory of the team member which you will designate to trade.
:applause:

:so marvelous:


Also, a rocket launcher is cheaper then a hand grenade. 5 scraps vs 25. No joke.





Perception

Serves exactly shit all in terms of gameplay.

It does not make you discover anything. The places where you can dig you can see yourself, no need for a character to have any skill for it - and there is absolutely nothing else that you can dicover by using that skill. At least I... havent discovered anything else.

What you can do is click it next to any NPC you come by and get XP and some stupid golden sparkling icon flying over those NPCs for it. The icon does not have any meaning or purpose btw. It just sparkles as you get XP for "percieving" NPCs that are standing two feet from you. You can do this once for every single NPC and creature in the game.

You can also kill some beasties and then when they are dead - you can use perception on them and get the same sparkling icons flying over them and more XP.
Only the character that has the skill gets that XP.



-


Inventory

- the right click "add to hotkey" function often just doesnt work. Mostly when i try to add blood packs and such medical items to the hotkey of my Surgeon.
- the polaroid pictures of items sometimes show, sometimes dont.

 

[undecaf]

Are weapon mods supposed to be temporary (and 1/weapon)? Mine keep disappearing on regular basis (eg. after loading, or when trying to implement another mod).

 

[Onholyservicebound]

...

Consider the following:

• each MD has had training in surgery (and in anesthesiology), including some training in neurosurgery and pediatric surgery. While in practice complex surgeries can be performed only by specialized surgeons, each MD should be able to perform a simple emergency surgery.
• This is Wasteland and qualified MDs are scarce. That means that they will need to be jack-of-all-trades doctors, as there is not enough of them to specialize.
• We had similar historical situations in reality in extreme combat situations, like in besieged cities under constant enemy attacks. A family doctor may end up removing bullets and performing amputations, because he is the most qualified person available, while the hospital is constantly under artillery fire (for the popular example, see the movie "Der Untergang").

One of my grandfathers was a field medic in the military, he never went to school for anything, ever. I'd go into detail about the man but it's safe to say that he probably couldn't preform surgery, he wasn't a doctor after his military career, he went back on to welfare. I'm just throwing out possible solutions to make them make more sense. If field medic had the advantage of being able to operate under combat, but was limited in regards to preforming complex surgeries, it would make each a more viable option.

In any case I'm pretty sure surgeons can apply bandages and all that other shit, a field medic is just overall more focused on what could be considered mundane practices.
So, field medic: Can heal allies in combat, superior skill at mundane medical tasks
Surgeon: Can res/remove status effects(injuries) out of combat

Surgeon skill
/ If you get a wounded knee (a stupid arrow in the knee meme) - the surgeon skill cannot do anything about it. Its impossible.
Because!
Obviously, who could ever expect a surgeon to be able to do anything about a wounded knee, right?

Is this a bug? I thought surgeons were the class that got rid of super hilarious arrow in the knee status effects.

Trading:
Is retarded and it aint a bug. Its by design.

First of, the trading inventory list does not show you ANY weapon or item specifics or numbers. In your inventory you have those polaroid pictures poping up (sometimes since it bugs out) - while at the traders there are none.

Just the stupid list icon, the name, weight and the price.
You guess whats that weapon or item actually is like! Telepathically.

Second, when youre adding stuff from your inventory to the trading tab... if you click on another team member picture, to add their items too... it wipes the weapons and items that you added previously.

Really. Im not joking.
Which means that previous to trading you have to manually move every single item to the inventory of the team member which you will designate to trade.
:applause:

Agreed on this, having to individually sell what each ranger wants to sell is particularly tedious and annoying, there should be a pool items option while trading at the least.

Perception

Serves exactly shit all in terms of gameplay.

It does not make you discover anything. The places where you can dig you can see yourself, no need for a character to have any skill for it - and there is absolutely nothing else that you can dicover by using that skill. At least I... havent discovered anything else.

What you can do is click it next to any NPC you come by and get XP and some stupid golden sparkling icon flying over those NPCs for it. The icon does not have any meaning or purpose btw. It just sparkles as you get XP for "percieving" NPCs that are standing two feet from you. You can do this once for every single NPC and creature in the game.

You can also kill some beasties and then when they are dead - you can use perception on them and get the same sparkling icons flying over them and more XP.
Only the character that has the skill gets that XP.
[/qoute]
Fixing this skill could, and should be as easy making some npcs/items difficult or even impossible to make out without it. make objects highlighted with the skill brighter, and I don't have too much problem with the dig spots, if some are out of the way and not particularly noticeable I could imagine it might be useful. Scanning NPCs should do something, show you their loadout or carried items or something.

 

[hiver]

The problem is not that a field medic cannot perform complex surgery. The problem is that a surgeon apparently cannot do simple medical procedures. And forcing a surgeon not to be able to do anything in combat is godamn super moronic idea too.

for all the stupid godamn ignorant morons:


yes, yes... they operate in the base. but that base comes under fire and they do go and do their job in the field.
If they were forced to be in combat... they would do whatever they could, they would do their best and they definitely would not just say, nope cant save any lives, cant stop bleeding or treat anyone! sorry!

just to have to explain this to people makes me want to exterminate half of human race. but the depths of stupidity know no limits.

Same goes for all other skills i mentioned!

/

Perception can be handled/fixed like you said. Obviously. The problem is that someone even has to point it out. The problem is that there are professional developers who , without someone saying it to them, go and make Perception work as it does now.

Also, a fucking surgeon cannot stop bleeding, see... so how in the hell would you expect him to be able to get rid of a wounded knee.


oh, some W2 combat horrors. cant add annotations right now so you all will just have to imagine my comments playing over the video.

 

[Onholyservicebound]

But a surgeon CAN do simple medical procedures, what is it that a field medic can do that a surgeon can't? Mind you I'm looking at the descriptions right now, it says they can both remove status effects but the field medic requires items, as of right now the main difference between the two seems to be that one gives a bonus to applying consumables, and one can res people and fix injuries without consumables.

And forcing a surgeon not to be able to do anything in combat is godamn super moronic idea too.

So you're telling me that limiting resurrection to being used after combat is unreasonable? Instead unlimited resing while in combat in an already easy as fuck game is a better solution because you think doing surgery while getting shot at should be something every surgeon can do?

You want surgeon to be a skill, that lets you unlimitedly res your party while in combat, remove all status effects for free, also in combat, as well as provide bonuses to each and every single health based consumable?

Who gives a shit that it needs to be pointed out, that's the whole point of the beta. If you want to drone on about how inept inxile is then be my guest. I'm not remotely interested in engaging you or reading it, what I am interested in is taking advantage of the feedback stage to offer solutions to flaws in the game. In any case, I'm skeptical that the entirety of this game has been built in a way that perception offers no advantage, for me, believing that nobody at any point thought to place an item or items in a way that makes perception useful sounds ridiculous. Personally, I've only benefited from perception once so far, I found a chest that I otherwise didn't see, but I agree that for the most part it hasn't felt particularly useful in the beta. Hopefully somebody at Inxile reads this shit, and either comments on how there already is use, or that they at least intend to do so. (Brother None Any insight on what scanning NPCs actually does? Are there situations where perception is actually useful beyond what we've seen so far?)

 

[tuluse]

There is minimum field medic requirement for using some items.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

So a Surgeon cannot into bandages and blood-bags?

 

[hiver]

There is minimum field medic requirement for using some items.

Thats right. Cant use blood packs or bandages or other field medic specific stuff / unless you also have adequate points in field medic.

So you're telling me that limiting resurrection to being used after combat is unreasonable? Instead unlimited resing while in combat in an already easy as fuck game is a better solution because you think doing surgery while getting shot at should be something every surgeon can do?

You want surgeon to be a skill, that lets you unlimitedly res your party while in combat, remove all status effects for free, also in combat, as well as provide bonuses to each and every single health based consumable?

No, thats just what your stupid moronic ignorant brain tells you i must be thinking, because youre stupid.

and apparently you aren't playing yourself so youre just talking and thinking out of your asshole as some sort of extremely emotionally engaged inxile white knight.

 

[Onholyservicebound]

There is minimum field medic requirement for using some items.

That's pretty stupid, although since surgeons can remove status effects anyway, being able to use bandages would be redundant. The rest makes little sense, either make consumables usable by everyone, and simply apply the bonus to medic, or just do the proposed skill requirement.

No, thats just what your stupid moronic ignorant brain tells you i must be thinking, because youre stupid.

and apparently you aren't playing yourself so youre just talking and thinking out of your asshole.

No you stupid sack of shit, that's exactly what you're saying, what I just wrote is exactly what combining those skills would do you half baked retard.

Either that, or I only ever used my consumables on my field medic because of the bonus.

 

[hiver]

its not what im saying. its what you are saying i am saying, you fucking human pathetic fecal splurge.

because you are literally that stupid that you think you will win by a blatant strawman fallacy.
and convince anyone that is what im actually thinking.

because you are a overblown whiny stupid shit.


there are other solutions that are much better, but youre just too stupid.

 

[Daedalos]

Could both of you pieces of bitchtrash shut the fuck up with the flaming war? It's boring and unoriginal.

Thanks.

 

[JParabellum]

Perception does have a use. There is a cave in the upper Highpool area that u can only find if you use the perception skill. Perception was in the original game so suck it up and accept it. I am sure there will be plenty of other places where perception will be used to find something.
I myself would rather have choices in how I want to specialize my characters. I do not want to be trapped into creating a generic rogue like character that has one simple skill that lets him open everything from a chastity belt to a safe. And I most definitely would not want him to fucking be able to hack a goddamned computer.
From what I read from the field stripping skill description is that you are dismantling the firearm for parts. The description doesn't say anything about reassembling the firearm.

 

[tuluse]

You need perception to see if certain things are locked or what skill to use of them, but if you have meta knowledge you can just use the correct skill anyways.

Edit: you can also use it to see enemies through walls.

 

[Kz3r0]

From the looks of it, 'whacky Skyrim jokes' was apparently one of the overarching design goals.

Pretty fucking embarrassing, Brother None.

The games of yore have always been chocked full with inside jokes and mockery of other developers or games deal with it.

 

[Kz3r0]

Torment isn't supposed to be a "funny" game, so I wouldn't expect any memes, from Skyrim or anywhere else.

Meanwhile at inxile:

What can change the nature of a man?

An arrow to the knee!

HURR!

CMcC don't even think about that.

 

[tuluse]

I saw a changing god the other day, terrible creatures.