Wasteland The Wasteland 2 Beta Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Roguey]

Yeah, Wasteland 2 ain't pretty, and I'm kinda mad there's no day-night system as the shadows do give it enough ambiance to forgive that fact, but it's not like art really matters at the end of the day, even if it's probably the only thing that propels the likes of Killzone, The Witcher, and Crysis and other similar games into inappropriate places of success, where thin, barebones, or at least, compromising gameplay is ignored because lol grafix.

Definitely, your average joe's first impressions of Wasteland 2 are from its graphics. I had someone literally come up to me while I was on lunch break, playing on my laptop, and accused the game of being boring. He literally didn't even see more than five seconds before he'd made up his mind. Definitely wouldn't have said "boring" if the camera were first-person and the graphix super top notch.

The environment art and models look fine to me. Probably wasn't a good idea to show the models all big and up close in the character creator and the inventory screen. They should have copied Fallout Tactics/ToEE/any other sane game that allows you to customize your small character's appearance. More ineptitude.

 

[set]

I honestly don't find them ugly, the close-ups of Wasteland 2's characters are far better than SRR or even something like Warcraft 3. I agree zoomed-out would have been more sensible, but then what's the point in highly detailed swappable armor n' shit? You wouldn't be able to see it hardly.

Path of Exile is a recent game with a similar perspective - each character model cost them $10k USD to rig and build, and that's NZ ppp. I'd say they did fine for the budget here, though Path of Exile had a similar budget and manages to look prettier - but the camera there is designed to be zommed in much closer.

 

[JParabellum]

You're prejudiced against a hair color, think about how ridiculous that sounds.

Not her hair. The fact she felt the need to call attention to the fact that she is a blonde. I never see anyone with Brunette-anything in their name. Also she posted 15 things abt how bad the graphics are... one thing I seriously hate in life is a woman who harps on one thing incessantly. I understood what she was saying on the first post. The next 14 were superfluous.

 

[sea]

It doesn't take great lengths at all, let me spell it out for you. Wasteland 2 is wasteland 2, it isn't some OCD project based around creating -the perfectly balanced uber RPG-, cutting out the "skill bloat" is a negative to somebody who wants a Wasteland game, because lots of (Sometimes ridiculous) skills, is part of that experience. Is it a bad design? Maybe, who gives a shit, the alternative where all games strive for the same thing because it's efficient is boring.

Wholeheartedly agree. I think that having more diverse and numerous skills is great for the game's flavour and fun factor even if it's not really perfectly balanced. Most RPGs have tons of balance issues and redundant skills; we all agree that they are great games often in spite of it... but it can't also be said that part of why I love Fallout or Arcanum is the sheer diversity in skills and options in those games, even though many are non-ideal... who cares? You can go make an ideal uber-character if you want, I'm gonna have fun making a half-orc supermodel specialized in throwing weapons and alchemy. The argument being made for reducing the number of skills is just that, reductionist - not to mention done wholly for the sake of realism or "optimizing" the ruleset.

 

[shihonage]

Definitely, your average joe's first impressions of Wasteland 2 are from its graphics. I had someone literally come up to me while I was on lunch break, playing on my laptop, and accused the game of being boring. He literally didn't even see more than five seconds before he'd made up his mind. Definitely wouldn't have said "boring" if the camera were first-person and the graphix super top notch.

You should ditch this faggy turn-based nerd shit and just go 100% popamole bro. That way all the brosephs will give you respek in your local Starbucks.

 

[Name]

The Save Bug from Automate 3D Portrait! Awful Stuff! Rage Quit! F**K!

Will wait for more stable version.

 

[hiver]

I think I just added a new word to Hiver's vocabulary.

You think too much of yourself.

It doesn't take great lengths at all, let me spell it out for you. Wasteland 2 is wasteland 2, it isn't some OCD project based around creating -the perfectly balanced uber RPG-, cutting out the "skill bloat" is a negative to somebody who wants a Wasteland game, because lots of (Sometimes ridiculous) skills, is part of that experience. Is it a bad design? Maybe, who gives a shit, the alternative where all games strive for the same thing because it's efficient is boring.

Binary extremes the only thing your brain can process, eh?

But for the sake of argument,

The argumentum ad absurdum?
Oh sure. that one works all the time.

Demolition skill - I've only seen two uses for it:

Spoiler

The rigged bicycle in the Rail Nomad camp at the playground, and the grenade which is a quest reward by Kate(?) for fixing the Highpool irrigation.

One more in RN camp.

Spoiler

under the yellow interceptor.

 

[hiver]

It doesn't take great lengths at all, let me spell it out for you. Wasteland 2 is wasteland 2, it isn't some OCD project based around creating -the perfectly balanced uber RPG-, cutting out the "skill bloat" is a negative to somebody who wants a Wasteland game, because lots of (Sometimes ridiculous) skills, is part of that experience. Is it a bad design? Maybe, who gives a shit, the alternative where all games strive for the same thing because it's efficient is boring.

Wholeheartedly agree. I think that having more diverse and numerous skills is great for the game's flavour and fun factor even if it's not really perfectly balanced. Most RPGs have tons of balance issues and redundant skills; we all agree that they are great games often in spite of it... but it can't also be said that part of why I love Fallout or Arcanum is the sheer diversity in skills and options in those games, even though many are non-ideal... who cares? You can go make an ideal uber-character if you want, I'm gonna have fun making a half-orc supermodel specialized in throwing weapons and alchemy. The argument being made for reducing the number of skills is just that, reductionist - not to mention done wholly for the sake of realism or "optimizing" the ruleset.

No it isnt. I would prefer if you didnt stoop down to "translating" what my arguments "really" want and aim to do or "motivations" behind them.

There is no diversity in any of those skills. They are one single skill forcefully split into two - instead of actually creating different diverse skills.
the reason for arguing against that is not reductionism or realism - the REASON is that they dont make any fucking sense at all - AND PLAY BADLY.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

From the looks of it, 'whacky Skyrim jokes' was apparently one of the overarching design goals.

Pretty fucking embarrassing, Brother None.

 

[Onholyservicebound]

SRR has much more disgusting low poly models, though it does look ten times prettier due to environmental effects and better-suited art style. Plus, the levels are pretty tiny, so I'm sure that helps.

Graphics do not matter, except from a sales standpoint.

Agreed, SRR has lower quality art, but it's the style that makes it work, my troll looked awesome, even if he was probably even lower poly than the W2 avatars.

hiver Stop trying to flex your flimsy mental muscles with shitty flames and make actual replies, and don't double post, that tag seems to be getting to your head.

One skill is for surgery, one skill is for applying medicine, DOES THAT HELP YOU UNDERSTAND?? . One skill is for reverse engineering weapons, one is for re-engineering them. One skill is for picking locks, one skill is for cracking safes, Do you get it?? DO YOU??. The binary extremes you're talking about are design, and I used them because your shit suggestions require them, if you start stripping away all of the other skills because idiots can't see why they make sense, then the other archetypes have significantly more options by comparison. If you wanted to advocate creating skills that are diverse enough for a retard to understand that they are different, then throw some suggestions out there. Otherwise combining skills is stupid, and yes, the extremes are exactly what will be needed to balance out your proposed bullshit.

 

[Ninjerk]

SRR has much more disgusting low poly models, though it does look ten times prettier due to environmental effects and better-suited art style. Plus, the levels are pretty tiny, so I'm sure that helps.

Graphics do not matter, except from a sales standpoint.

Agreed, SRR has lower quality art, but it's the style that makes it work, my troll looked awesome, even if he was probably even lower poly than the W2 avatars.

hiver Stop trying to flex your flimsy mental muscles with shitty flames and make actual replies, and don't double post, that tag seems to be getting to your head.

One skill is for surgery, one skill is for applying medicine, DOES THAT HELP YOU UNDERSTAND?? . One skill is for reverse engineering weapons, one is for re-engineering them. One skill is for picking locks, one skill is for cracking safes, Do you get it?? DO YOU??. The binary extremes you're talking about are design, and I used them because your shit suggestions require them, if you start stripping away all of the other skills because idiots can't see why they make sense, then the other archetypes have significantly more options by comparison. If you wanted to advocate creating skills that are diverse enough for a retard to understand that they are different, then throw some suggestions out there. Otherwise combining skills is stupid, and yes, the extremes are exactly what will be needed to balance out your proposed bullshit.

What is the difference between picking locks and cracking safes?

 

[hiver]

That was an actual reply you imbecile.
Nothing else is required to that stupid and blatant shit argument you made, moron.

[

One skill is for surgery, one skill is for applying medicine, DOES THAT HELP YOU UNDERSTAND?? .

Surgery IS MEDICINE YOU FUCKING STUPID SHITBRAIN.

And im dragging with me a fucking surgeon who cannot apply a bandage or heal an arrow to the knee. IDIOT: DUMBFUCK: SHITBRAIN.

One skill is for reverse engineering weapons, one is for re-engineering them.

Which is all a part of weaponsmitihing you fucking ignorant shitbrain MORON.
There is no two skills there! its actually a single skill!

One skill is for picking locks, when skill is for cracking safes, Do you get it?? DO YOU??.

Why is it that all the true dumbfucks feel that need to mention the tag that was put there by a dumbfuck in a pathetic attempt to make himself feel better after an argument with me, that he provoked - by being an imbecile.

- thats a rhetorical question.

The binary extremes you're talking about are design,

No, its the way your stupid brain comprehends reality. Because youre a fucking moron.

and I used them because your shit suggestions require them,

No, you use them to try to make it seem as your stupidity and ignorance are "smart" because youre are THAT fucking STUPID.

if you start stripping away all of the other skills

could you please go and check what is argumentum ad absurdium, mega imbecile? tnx.

because idiots can't see why they make sense,

They dont make any fucking sense, you fucking pathetic moron.

If you wanted to advocate creating skills that are diverse enough for a retard to understand that they are different, then throw some suggestions out there.

No, thats not what i want but i guess you think yourself really smart for managing to just strawman your way to this magnificent retort, especially seeing how youre the actual retard here.
and im done with giving suggestions to Inxile.

I guess InXile hit the target audience right on the head there. The game is practically made for you and your level of stupidity.

Since for you a Surgeon is something completely different then a field medic. One does agriculture while the other deals with oceanic biology. or plastic industry.
right - e - o.

Otherwise combining skills is stupid, and yes, the extremes are exactly what will be needed to balance out your proposed bullshit.

empty declarative nonsensical statements eh?
gee, what a surprise.

What is the difference between picking locks and cracking safes?

You dont UNDEEERSTAAAND. THOSE ARE TWO DIFFERENT SKIIIIILLZZZZ, GUHHH....

 

[tuluse]

Surgeons do not also do the anesthesia. That's a separate doctor. As is the doctor who diagnoses you in the first place. Also if you need further tests those are probably each separate doctors too.

 

[Ninjerk]

Surgeons do not also do the anesthesia. That's a separate doctor. As is the doctor who diagnoses you in the first place. Also if you need further tests those are probably each separate doctors too.

Must be some WASTELAND with anestheticians always on hand.

 

[Sensuki]

Not that I agree with him, but wasn't there talk of how NPCs would have tons of personality, party banter, and could even steal your shit and stuff like that?

Actually I think that first Ranger chick you get does steal your ammo. Although that just might be me imagining things - I swear when I've had her pick up ammo it's disappeared. It's also something Brian Fargo "gave away" quite a few times

"Perhaps one of the NPCs steals your ammo, perhaps they shoot dogs" or whatever

 

[Onholyservicebound]

What is the difference between picking locks and cracking safes?

My knowledge of either is limited, so this may not be super accurate: I'd assume the biggest difference would be in the tools, since a safe doesn't really have a keyhole to manipulate with lockpicking tools you'd have to spin a dial and your hand would be your primary tool, whereas lockpicking, does have a -hole- for you to pick.(Why does that sound disgusting.) I'd imagine they are both dependant on perception/senses, just like all melee is based on strength. But yeah, the tools and movements would be the primary difference. Did you actually want to know or was that supposed to be some sort of rhetorical thing? Because I imagine google could help you more than I could.

I think I'm going try a different tactic with hiver , he's getting progressively more retarded as this goes on, I can actually feel the slobber flinging out from my computer screen as I read this inane shit.

Surgery IS MEDICINE

No.

Which is all a part of weaponsmitihing

No. Stripping something for parts doesn't make you an engineer or a weaponsmith.

Blablabla I'm angry.

Do you feel better?

 

[set]

Well, they could merge safecracking/lockpicking and replace some safes with toasters so that you still need two skills to loot everything. The design goal is to make taking secondary skills important for survival.

 

[JParabellum]

What is the difference between picking locks and cracking safes?

My knowledge of either is limited, so this may not be super accurate: I'd assume the biggest difference would be in the tools, since a safe doesn't really have a keyhole to manipulate with lockpicking tools you'd have to spin a dial and your hand would be your primary tool, whereas lockpicking, does have a -hole- for you to pick.(Why does that sound disgusting.) I'd imagine they are both dependant on perception/senses, just like all melee is based on strength. But yeah, the tools and movements would be the primary difference. Did you actually want to know or was that supposed to be some sort of rhetorical thing? Because I imagine google could help you more than I could.

1+
Safe Cracking is a whole other science and it takes a lot more skill than picking a lock. Anyone can learn to pick a lock but it takes a gift or a lot of talent to be able to crack a safe. You also need very good ears.. the kind of ears that can hear a bug skitter across the floor while loud music is playing.

 

[Onholyservicebound]

1+
Safe Cracking is a whole other science and it takes a lot more skill than picking a lock. Anyone can learn to pick a lock but it takes a gift or a talent to be able to crack a safe. You also need very good ears.. the kind of ears that can hear a bug skitter across the floor while loud music is playing.

I figured as much, I knew kids in juvie who could lockpick, I just didn't want to assume too much about something I know shit all about.

replace some safes with toasters

This made me lol, not because I disagree with it or anything, but because of how ridiculous it sounds on it's own.

 

[Ninjerk]

What is the difference between picking locks and cracking safes?

My knowledge of either is limited, so this may not be super accurate: I'd assume the biggest difference would be in the tools, since a safe doesn't really have a keyhole to manipulate with lockpicking tools you'd have to spin a dial and your hand would be your primary tool, whereas lockpicking, does have a -hole- for you to pick.(Why does that sound disgusting.) I'd imagine they are both dependant on perception/senses, just like all melee is based on strength. But yeah, the tools and movements would be the primary difference. Did you actually want to know or was that supposed to be some sort of rhetorical thing? Because I imagine google could help you more than I could.

No, I don't know the difference, but your argument presupposes that you do. I know the basic principle of picking pin-and-tumbler locks, but whether they have any relation to cracking safes I have no idea. You really have two possible arguments here: the first, that they are realistically different skills (simulationist argument although I doubt someone who is interested in cracking safes wouldn't be able to grasp the mechanics of picking a lock, or that it would make sense that they wouldn't fall under the same set of training), and the second, that the rewards behind locked doors and locked safes are too powerful/plentiful to access with investment in a single skill (I think this is called mondblut or something? I don't know the terminology).

I think I'm going try a different tactic with hiver , he's getting progressively more retarded as this goes on, I can actually feel the slobber flinging out from my computer screen as I read this inane shit.

Surgery IS MEDICINE

No.

I would argue that it is medicine, but that it isn't pharmacology. If this is the actual difference it needs to be delineated better. Doctors in the here-and-now may be specialized, but I doubt that their training didn't include fundamental skills related to stablizing someone in shock, resuscitating an unconcious/"dead" patient, stopping arterial hemorrhaging, etc.

Which is all a part of weaponsmitihing

No. Stripping something for parts doesn't make you an engineer or a weaponsmith.

Blablabla I'm angry.

Do you feel better?

I don't quite know what the "gun breakdown" skill does in exact mechanical terms yet, but I suspect taking similar functioning parts from fundamentally different weapons and making them work together would, in fact, be a subset of gunsmithing.

Cloaked beneath the swearing and slander of hiver's posts there lies a logical process (which much of your posting lacks). You should learn to discern the difference between trolling/shitposting and incendiary argumentation, especially if you like it here.

 

[The Bishop]

There is no fundamental difference between doors that lead into safe compartments and doors that lead into rooms inside buildings. They all adhere to same mechanical laws and can use all the same types of locks. In fact some safe compartments are rooms inside buildings as well. The only difference is that on average safe locks are of higher quality and more secure design.

 

[tuluse]

Safe cracking = nob based lock
Lock picking = key based lock
Computer tech = keypad based lock (I assume)

 

[skyst]

And im dragging with me a fucking surgeon who cannot apply a bandage

This is the crux of the matter. You can argue all day about the differences between a Field Medic and a Surgeon, but the fact that applying bandages takes training at all is silly, and that the guy who just saved your life by suturing a gushing knife wound might throw his hands up in befuddlement when asked to apply some bandages is absurd. The game has skill bloat to feign complexity at the cost of common sense, plain and simple. Either make them usable by anyone like Pain Pills or allow the healer-type skills to pull double duty (Bandages require Field Medic 1 or Surgeon 1, etc). It would make Field Medic less appealing as a result, which is further evidence that it should be dropped/merged into 1 skill. Seriously, what's the end game for Field Medic? I can see a Surgeon becoming more skilled as he advances, being able to treat more critical or complicated injuries. But if all that a Field Medic has to look forward to are higher rank Blood Packs, then that's just stupid and lazy.

If they absolutely need Lockpicking and Safecracking both, why stop there? We clearly also need Password Guessing, Key Code Hacking, Dead Bolt Jimmying, Car Door Popping and Piggybank Shattering. Basically anything that acts as a barrier between my Ranger and some loot deserves it's own skill! Refrigerator Opening!

And for the record, Field Stripping and Weaponsmithing are the same damn thing. If I know enough to take a gun apart I should be able to put it back together. If Forrest Gump can handle it then my Ranger should be able to without needing to significantly invest in two different skills. While on the topic, lets not forget how gamey and ridiculous Field Stripping is. Lets imagine the scenario where I have this nice sniper rifle that I'm dying to unassemble because the scope would be great on my assault rifle. So I break the gun down and I might get a scope! Or I might get a clip, or a stock or a barrel or nothing at all! I could potentially make all of these components of a gun magically disappear! Wat? Where does it all go? Why don't I know which part I will be getting from a gun when I break it down? Insanity.

 

[Onholyservicebound]

No, I don't know the difference, but your argument presupposes that you do. I know the basic principle of picking pin-and-tumbler locks, but whether they have any relation to cracking safes I have no idea. You really have two possible arguments here: the first, that they are realistically different skills (simulationist argument although I doubt someone who is interested in cracking safes wouldn't be able to grasp the mechanics of picking a lock, or that it would make sense that they wouldn't fall under the same set of training), and the second, that the rewards behind locked doors and locked safes are too powerful/plentiful to access with investment in a single skill (I think this is called mondblut or something? I don't know the terminology).

Picklocking and safecracking are different things, it doesn't take knowledge of the craft to come to this conclusion. A safe does not have a keyhole to pick, you cannot picklock a safe. Whether they require similar attributes or are roughly similar is irrelevant in this context, the difference required to be classified as a separate skill in Wasteland is not large.

I would argue that it is medicine, but that it isn't pharmacology. If this is the actual difference it needs to be delineated better. Doctors in the here-and-now may be specialized, but I doubt that their training didn't include fundamental skills related to stablizing someone in shock, resuscitating an unconcious/"dead" patient, stopping arterial hemorrhaging, etc.

The question would have to be whether or not the surgeon is capable of using his skill during combat, if he isn't then the distinction is obvious. If it isn't then I change my stance on the subject completely, one would assume the difference between a surgeon and a field medic would be the ability to operate in combat. Will test and see if surgeons can do so.

I don't quite know what the "gun breakdown" skill does in exact mechanical terms yet, but I suspect taking similar functioning parts from fundamentally different weapons and making them work together would, in fact, be a subset of gunsmithing.

I can't disagree with you there, I thought the field stripping skill encompassed more than it did, but yes, it's actually pretty illogical that you can(As I recently read) both add and remove weapon mods with weapon smithing, yet need to use field stripping to break down the weapon mods.

It would seem I'm in agreement that 2/3 of the skills in question should be made more distinct, specifically, make field medic able to operate in combat whereas surgeons cannot, whereas surgeon would be more limited to being the res skill. As for field stripping, there isn't much you can do with that one, if it's sole purpose is removing mods from guns, yet you can add/remove mods from guns with weapon smith then yeah, it makes no sense at all. I've tried to come up with workarounds that make the skill make sense but it's definitely a lost cause.

 

[tuluse]

You can use surgeon in combat, it's how you revive unconscious characters.