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Wizardry The Wizardry Series Thread

KeighnMcDeath

RPG Codex Boomer
Joined
Nov 23, 2016
Messages
15,461
Murphy's Law.

He should charge for you murdering him er them. Can you get three Murphy's max across or just 2. I swear I'd get a couple at times.

We need a 3 hour video of fast killing murphies. Set that DOSBOX or emulator to Maximum Warp.

I did that with Lunar the Silver Star and Some other game. Just for shits got that bitch to level 50 and he doesn't evrn have a party.
 

LarryTyphoid

Scholar
Joined
Sep 16, 2021
Messages
2,233
Whew, forget level 7, that floor's actually pretty easy when you've got a decent mapping method (though there is one extremely dirty teleporter trick which would trip you up if you're not very diligent with mapping and using Dumapic). But level 8? Damn, what a fucking nightmare with the weird teleporter spots and the hellish turntable room. I've got it all mapped out now, but man, what a hassle. Level 9 is way easier and more simplistic in comparison.

I'm starting to get nervous about Wizardry 4. Is that game gonna be a sadistic gauntlet of obfuscated teleporters and turntables, too? From what little I've played of Wiz4, I don't think you can even cast Dumapic reliably.
 

Butter

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
8,646
Wizardry 4 is in some ways easier than 1 because you can save at any time. So for example you can save, map out an area with liberal DUMAPIC usage, reload, then do the same thing in a different part of the level. It doesn't throw any tricky mapping problems at you until the 5th or 6th level. The minefield is obnoxious, but can be solved by meticulous trial and error.
 

gman42

Scholar
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Sep 15, 2018
Messages
155
Yeah the first few levels of Wiz4 are forgiving enough, every level has its own "gimmick" but the mapping itself still isn't bad. It's the top four levels that are a fucking nightmare where they throw every possible trick at you.

Combine that with lots of player parties on the higher floors that can wipe you out incredibly easily, and the fact that they all respawn when you save, and it gets tricky. Not to mention the aspect where Trebor's ghost is trying to kill you in real time and will punish you for sitting there staring at your map too long.
 

LarryTyphoid

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Sep 16, 2021
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Are ninjas any good in Wizardry 1? I found the ninja dagger and used it on my thief, but he seems pretty shitty. I switched out my priest in the third position for the ninja, but all the enemies constantly target him and he can't tank it as well as my priest could. Seems like you can't get a ninja's AC in the negatives without Matu spells, even with Maporfic. And the damage output is pretty underwhelming considering how hard the manual hypes ninjas up.
 

KeighnMcDeath

RPG Codex Boomer
Joined
Nov 23, 2016
Messages
15,461
Well....
Ninja



The Ninja (Japanese: 忍者, ninja) is one of the character classes available to players in the Wizardryseries of games. It is one of the advanced classes, and usually impossible to access for beginning characters. This class is a blend of features between a Fighter and a Thief, gaining access to several weapons and armor, skills normally reserved to Thieves, and a group of skills unique to the class. The Ninja is the equivalent in Wizardry of a common fantasy archetype in several role-playing games, the Ninja or Assassin.



The Ninja can best be described as a class that blends some aspects of the Fighter and Thief classes, but the truth is that the Ninja is a class that significantly differs from either. As a Fighter, a Ninja has a wide choice of weaponry and armor to choose, although because of the unique skills of the Ninja, the use of such is rarely recommended. As the Thief, the Ninja usually has access to lock-picking and trap defusing, but their chances of success are much lower than a pure Thief.



However, the unique skills of Ninja tend to over-compensate for the losses acquired by being a "hybrid" class. First of all, the Ninja gains a level reduction of Armor Class when the Ninja wears no armor; while at first this grants the Ninja AC roughly similar to that of a Mage or Priest, eventually they surpass high-AC characters such as the Fighter or the Lord. Second of all, and much as Samurai do, the Ninja may instantly slay an enemy target with a critical hit. The high chance of critical hits dealt by Ninja make the class a highly sought one, despite the usually difficult requirements.



Llygamyn Series

In the group of games that compose the Llylgamyn saga (Wizardry I to V, excluding Wizardry IV), the Ninja cannot be accessed without a very lucky roll at character creation because of the outrageous requirements to become one. The requirements to become a Ninja were lessened with Wizardry V, making the Ninja the class with most changes from its predecessors in comparison to the rest of the classes .



A Ninja will not associate with characters of Good alignment, thus you cannot have a Ninja in a party led by an Good character in the first slot, nor will any Good character be accessible when a Ninja (or any other Evil character) is on the party. However, there are ways to circumvent this restriction.



To become a Ninja, the character must achieve the minimum stat requirements (Wizardry I-III/V):

  • STR 17/15
  • IQ 17
  • Piety 17/15
  • VIT 17/16
  • AGI 17/15
  • Luck 17/16
  • Must be of Evil alignment
As observed, the requirements to become a Ninja are outrageous, and no race has a distinct advantage over another to become a Ninja; that said, Hobbits usually have a better chance to become Ninjas with a lot of effort. Since no class provides excellent stat growth in all categories, and given the tendency of first games to reduce player attributes, said advantage is only minimal. Humans have an extremely hard time becoming a Ninja, but their usually balanced stats tend to compensate: their Piety usually causes some trouble.



Ninjas usually are easier to get on console versions of Wizardry, since most of them do not provide an attribute penalty at level up.



Cosmic Forge Series

In the group of games that compose the Dark Savant Saga (Wizardry VI thru VIII), the Ninja gains perhaps one of the most solid set of skills ever given to any player at character creation. From beginning, they have access to virtually every single Weaponry skill, including Hand to Hand. As well, they have access to all Physical skills, including Legerdemain, Skulduggery and Ninjutsu. As for Arcana skills, they only gain the Alchemy and Kirijutsu abilities aside from the ones normally given to every character.



Upon closer examination, the reasons why Ninja have such a set of abilities are better explained. Unlike with the other games, Ninja have restricted use of most weapons and only a few pieces of armor. The Ninja, alongside the Monk, are the only two classes that gain a full Armor Class reduction, but this time through the use of the Ninjutsu skill, which also provides the ability to Hide in combat to Ambush the next round. As well, Ninja now must add skill points to the Kirijutsu ability in order to deal instant-death critical hits.

At level 5, the Ninja gains a limited access to spells of the Alchemy spellbook, as the Ranger does. Because of the late access, Ninjas acquire and develop Alchemy spells very slowly. In fact, despite the large amount of skills gained by the Ninja, they do not develop crucial skills (such as Skulduggery or Alchemy) with use, as what happens with Thieves and Alchemists



To become a Ninja, the character must achieve the minimum stat requirements (VI to VII/8):

  • STR (Strength) 12/50
  • INT (Intellect) 10/50
  • PIE (Piety) 10/-
  • VIT (Vitality) 12/50
  • DEX (Dexterity) 12/55
  • SPE (Speed) 12/55
  • PER (Personality)/SEN (Senses) -/50
As with earlier games, the Ninja is a very difficult class to achieve. Because of the redefinition of the basic races and classes, the Hobbit now has a great difficulty becoming a Ninja. From the new races, the Dracon and the Felpurr have an easier time becoming Ninja. Perhaps as a rare event, Dwarves are also well fit to become Ninja. As a rule of thumb, most races will have a requirement of 15-17 bonus points (or the minimum amount of points required for changing into the class based on their racial attributes); the most difficult would be the Mook, with its outstanding requirement of 21 points.





BUSIN Series

In Wizardry: Tale of the Forsaken Land and BUSIN 0: Wizardry Alternative NEO, the Ninja becomes even more of a jack-of-all-trades class, very close to its later incarnations than to their earlier ones. First and foremost, the Ninja gains the ability to use spells from both the Priest and Sorcerer classes, but with the harsh limitation of learning only up to the second level of each. The Ninja retains it's old ability to instantly slay an opponent with a critical hit, and also the high chances to enable such ability. As well, the Ninja reclaims its supernatural evasion ability. A point to consider is that Ninja do not have the capability to equip as much weapons as a Fighter or Samurai do. Another point to consider is that, once again, the Ninja is the class with the highest requirements to access: however, they aren't as outrageous as with other instances of the series. To top it all off, they have a better chance to unlock and defuse traps than other classes (save for Thieves), but the system used by the game to defuse locks and traps makes this edge a bit needless.



To become a Ninja, the character must achieve the minimum requirements:

  • Level 12
  • Evil Attribute
  • 25 Power
  • 25 Life
  • 25 Agility
  • 25 Luck
As with the earlier versions of the series, the requirements to become a Ninja are difficult to achieve, but Hobbits have a much easier task than other classes. Still, virtually any class can become a Ninja without difficulty. The greatest restriction the players will have with the class lie on the difficulty to blend characters of different alignments, considering that Ninjas once again require to be Evil by definition. Ironically, one of the few Ninja NPCs is acquired at the very beginning of the game, and usually it will adopt a Good or Neutral alignment.
 

gman42

Scholar
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Sep 15, 2018
Messages
155
Unless you're leveling your characters way up as a risk aversion thing, you probably won't get far enough in Wiz1 for your ninja's AC reduction to even outpace what you can get with armor, making that part of the ninja "flavor" kinda useless. You'll still have the critical hit chances and IIRC they get more swings/attack than any other martial character, so there's that. If you're planning to xfer him to Wiz2 then he'll have more time to develop and could be worth it.
 

LarryTyphoid

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Sep 16, 2021
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2,233
Unless you're leveling your characters way up as a risk aversion thing
What is "way up"? I have been grinding on-and-off for days and my characters have yet to reach level 13. I can't imagine how much time it'd take to get them past that.
 

KeighnMcDeath

RPG Codex Boomer
Joined
Nov 23, 2016
Messages
15,461
Well, I guess you'll just have to

APOLOGIES NO ONE HAS DONE A WIZARDRY MUSIC VIDEO.... yet.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
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Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,849
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
In Wiz8 I'm pretty much convinced that the Nip classes are only for small parties.
 

gman42

Scholar
Joined
Sep 15, 2018
Messages
155
Unless you're leveling your characters way up as a risk aversion thing
What is "way up"? I have been grinding on-and-off for days and my characters have yet to reach level 13. I can't imagine how much time it'd take to get them past that.

Been a while since I played, but yeah probably something like level 20+. Yeah it'd be tough to get that high unless you're constantly going down to level 10, fighting one or two battles and running back to the castle if you had even the slightest problem or felt like you used too many spells etc (hence the 'risk aversion' comment).
 

Jvegi

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Messages
5,454
Is Wizardry 8 Enhanced ( https://www.nexusmods.com/wizardry8/mods/1 ) a good idea for my first playthrough. I've heard the game is slow (wizfast) and has some late game issues, so I'd like to avoid them if I can. Yeah, 'go vanilla', blah, blah. It's a significant time investment and I've played enough crpgs with broken gameplay to know it's not that fun.
 

notpl

Arbiter
Joined
Dec 6, 2021
Messages
1,636
Is Wizardry 8 Enhanced ( https://www.nexusmods.com/wizardry8/mods/1 ) a good idea for my first playthrough. I've heard the game is slow (wizfast) and has some late game issues, so I'd like to avoid them if I can. Yeah, 'go vanilla', blah, blah. It's a significant time investment and I've played enough crpgs with broken gameplay to know it's not that fun.
This mod doesn't really fix anything but it doesn't hurt either. The equipment rebalancing is okay, the reduced junk in chests is nice (although he merely *reduces* it - the good items all still require savescumming, so it's a dubious change at best), the spell rebalancing is stupid, the reduced HP just means your casters get one-shot by more AOEs/ranged than they otherwise would for the first few hours of the game. Wiz 8 is already very good, the speedup hacks are all you need.
 

Strange Fellow

Peculiar
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Jun 21, 2018
Messages
4,241
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Is Wizardry 8 Enhanced ( https://www.nexusmods.com/wizardry8/mods/1 ) a good idea for my first playthrough. I've heard the game is slow (wizfast) and has some late game issues, so I'd like to avoid them if I can. Yeah, 'go vanilla', blah, blah. It's a significant time investment and I've played enough crpgs with broken gameplay to know it's not that fun.
What you need is wizfast and the speed component of this: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/wizardry-8-enhancements-a-call-to-arms.79581/ (there's an installation wizard, just unselect everything apart from the animation speedup stuff).
The slowness is mostly fixed by these two things, and any other problems are inherent to the game and won't be fixed by rebalancing mods.
 

Jvegi

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Messages
5,454
The 0.9rc installer keeps the enhancements grayed out, I can't unselect it.

Clipboard01sdsdsd.jpg


Do those two work together?
 

myoffice91

Novice
Joined
Jun 17, 2020
Messages
11
a good idea for my first playthrough. I've heard the game is slow (wizfast) and has some late game issues, so I'd like to avoid them if I can. Yeah, 'go vanilla', blah, blah. It's a significant time investment and I've played enough crpgs with broken gameplay to know it's not that fun.

Wizardry 8 fan-patch 1 28 build 4850 Monster animation speed​

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADHEigvV8Lc

If necessary, a link
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/the-wizardry-series-thread.80585/page-329#post-8222378
 

LarryTyphoid

Scholar
Joined
Sep 16, 2021
Messages
2,233
Wizardry 1 has got to have the most disgusting end-game grind I've seen in any game. The enemies that actually give you a decent amount of XP, earth giants, are much, much rarer than enemies like arch mages, master ninjas, gorgons, spirits, and lifestealers, which are both more dangerous and less rewarding to fight (1000 XP max from each fight, when you need 200,000+ XP to level up). Considering the fact that your grind can be actually reversed by lifestealers, nightcrawlers, and spirits, I wonder how the hell people ironmanning this game actually get their characters to level 13. If only I could spend all this useless gold I've accrued on XP.
 

Butter

Arcane
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Oct 1, 2018
Messages
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If it's turning into a grind you should just do the Bishop Identify glitch.
 

LarryTyphoid

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Sep 16, 2021
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Eh, I just ended up fighting Werdna without a max level mage. I got lucky with surprising him, killed him on the second turn. Bamatu from my priest, matu from my bishop, and mamorlis from my mage kept me safe from the vampires. My main fighter got drained 4 levels, so that'll make Wizardry 2 a little harder, but whatever.
If you have to grind it's better to do it on a level with no level drainers.
You know, now that I think about it, I never really tried to grind on level 7 or 8, because I had it in my mind that level 9 was the best place to grind period. Maybe rewarding enemies like earth giants show up on those levels. I'll test that whenever I play this game again.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2022
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434
First time I encountered Werdna he was friendly. I left him in peace, which stranded my party on the bottom level because you needed the amulet to teleport out. Never trust a friendly wizard.
 

gman42

Scholar
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Sep 15, 2018
Messages
155
Eh, I just ended up fighting Werdna without a max level mage. I got lucky with surprising him, killed him on the second turn. Bamatu from my priest, matu from my bishop, and mamorlis from my mage kept me safe from the vampires. My main fighter got drained 4 levels, so that'll make Wizardry 2 a little harder, but whatever.

Yeah unfortunately that's kinda what I remember about the final battle, it can be almost anticlimactic, at least compared to the gauntlet you have to run to get to him. Especially when you consider some of the crappy battle logic that will cause Werdna to sometimes try to punch you or cast Zilwan (?!) or some nonsense instead of nuking constantly like he should.
 

LarryTyphoid

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Sep 16, 2021
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Especially when you consider some of the crappy battle logic that will cause Werdna to sometimes try to punch you or cast Zilwan (?!) or some nonsense instead of nuking constantly like he should.
In my previous attempts he always nuked me 100% of the time. This time I killed him before he could try anything.
 

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