Wizardry The Wizardry Series Thread

[Major_Blackhart]

Yes, yes it does. Makes the game damn easy too, what with spells like earthquake and quicksand.

 

[Gnidrologist]

Alchemy renders all the benefits of high communication moot.

Last time i played, i had 900k before i even got to Ferro and that was without alchemy. Got there quite late, admittedly, but you can have more than enough moneis just selling the loot. Heck, if you don't have enough just camp around the hallways near the Ferro and holocaust the hoards of Rapax mages that constantly pass by that territory. They have quite expensive weapon/armor drop.

 

[DraQ]

Heck, if you don't have enough just camp around the hallways near the Ferro and holocaust the hoards of Rapax mages that constantly pass by that territory. They have quite expensive weapon/armor drop.

Rapax, being a bit nazi themselves don't yield easily to such fiery German methods.

Better idea is to go all Yahweh on them and flood their horned asses.

 

[Gnidrologist]

Yes, you can use ''tsunami'' for that. They seem to dislike water much.

 

[Daniel Valiente]

Yes, yes it does. Makes the game damn easy too, what with spells like earthquake and quicksand.

I've always held instant kill spells in scant regard. The chance that they will work is miniscule, and you may just waste the spell points and the turn. Therefore, I prefer offesive spells, which take longer to kill a tough target, but they work for certain.

 

[DraQ]

Yes, yes it does. Makes the game damn easy too, what with spells like earthquake and quicksand.

I've always held instant kill spells in scant regard. The chance that they will work is miniscule, and you may just waste the spell points and the turn. Therefore, I prefer offesive spells, which take longer to kill a tough target, but they work for certain.

Quicksand is very useful - some enemies, like androids and all kinds of flyers are weak against earth and mass kill spells are mostly useful for thinning the enemy swarms quickly.

Then there is Death Cloud which instakills repeatedly and is from polar opposite realm of air.

But one of my absolute favourite alchemy spells is Toxic Cloud - it does pathetic damage, but it also attempts to repeatedly poison, ko, and nauseate.

I think that at least some codexers (like Major_Blackhart) should appreciate spell that can leave most enemies face-down. Unconscious and, uhm, vulnerable.

 

[Gnidrologist]

Yea, the thing with the instakill spells is that you must know from experience which mobs are most vulnerable to what. The ''resistance to'' doesn't always tell the whole story. I've been killing about 50% of large rapax crowds with asphyxation and it seems that quicksand is indeed the most powerfull of these kinds of spells. Always at least 1/3 to a pretty high level mobs. Death cloud is also good that it lasts for numerous rounds and you oftenly don't even notice how many get killed by it. Generally all cloud type spells are good to great.
One thing that is important though is your level. Casting a death wish in 5green dots at level 18 will not yield the same results that comes at lvl 21.

 

[Daniel Valiente]

Then there is Death Cloud which instakills repeatedly and is from polar opposite realm of air.

Well, I guess this one can indeed be useful for major battles against HP-rich foes (the battle versus the Rapax on Ascension Peak is a good example).

But one of my absolute favourite alchemy spells is Toxic Cloud - it does pathetic damage, but it also attempts to repeatedly poison, ko, and nauseate.:

Now this is one spell I dread. When you fight against a stronger foe, and get covered with Toxic Cloud, you can say that you are done for: it instantly incapacitates some members of your party, making further combat nigh impossible. Myself, though, I don't use it that often. My common tactic is a fast all-out magic attack that kills off enemies before they can do any serious damage.
Bishop: something massive and offensive
Priest: Whirlwind
Alchemist: Firebomb or some such thing
Then FIre Stix, Devil Dust and similar items by other party members... you get the idea.
Doesn't work against all enemies, but still.

 

[Azrael the cat]

Yes, yes it does. Makes the game damn easy too, what with spells like earthquake and quicksand.

I've always held instant kill spells in scant regard. The chance that they will work is miniscule, and you may just waste the spell points and the turn. Therefore, I prefer offesive spells, which take longer to kill a tough target, but they work for certain.

Wizardry is a little different to most western crpgs in that regard. You don't get the absurdity that happens in western crpgs where any 'difficult' fight is rigged to make insta-death spells useless. I usually avoid insta-death spells in crpgs simply because they are never useable during the times when you might really have a use for them (as opposed to an ordinary damage spell).

BUT that doesn't really happen in Wizardry. Partially because repeated trash fights can cause real problems, especially if you get caught in a poor formation, or with enemies coming up on multiple sides. But also because you don't get the standard 'all tough enemies are immune-to-all-insta-death' bullshit. Moreoever, the chance to actually obtain insta-kills (and other crit-like effects) is manipulable, such that you can go for a character or party build designed to maximise their chance. Ninjas, monks, rogues, rangers and samurais can all be built around their crit-like-effects (especially instakill for rangers and ninjas), using skill/stat builds and gear to make the deaths come regularly. The effectiveness of kill-spells is influenced greatly by spell school v resistance for that school.

It's a perfectly viable tactic in Wiz8, but like most tactics in that game it will be MUCH more effective if you adopt it at a strategy/meta-strategy level, building your characters and outfits towards maximising its effectiveness.

Having said that, I still think the easiest spell strategies for most areas of the game are the various AoE disabling spells - keep the enemies snared/slept/stunned/insane/etc. You get them early, the bard basically spam them once he gets a good instrument collection (almost all the good AoE crowd control spells are available via bard instruments, and stamina is ultra-easy to recover via regenerating items), and there's almost always something that's going to be an effective crowd control for every opponent, even if you're slightly underlevel (mind you, that chapel full of undead on the hill always wtfpwns me if I try it while substantially underlevel).

Instadeath abilities and spells really shine against the Rapax. The ability to one-hit those massive hitpoint soaks is incredibly effective - it's one part of the game where a single tactic just outshines every other option.

The only type of spells I'd really counsel against are those that do ordinary direct damage. There's just never a call for it. Rangers, gadjeteers, ninjas (even warriors with gun or bow trained up) are better for ranged damage, and it's just about always better to sleep/stun a whole group than it is to inflict spell damage. Have your fighting classes do the damage, and your casters prevent the enemies from fighting back. The one exception might be the mass insects and flowers you find in some places, where they can do ok damage or sleep your party, but have little hitpoints - if you can take out a bunch with an AoE attack it can sometimes work out better than CC'g them

 

[Gnidrologist]

stamina is ultra-easy to recover via regenerating items

Except in combat it's not. Stamina regenerating lockets give you 1/2 extra rounds at best before you need stamina/restall or potion. I really don't see why these amulets are some overrated that many even insist on having female bards/gadgeteers. There are much more useful amulets like the ring of the road for example. I think that +40 strength will improve stamina more significantly by maximizing it's total pool than couple of +1 regen items that doesn't have any additional bonus.

The only type of spells I'd really counsel against are those that do ordinary direct damage. There's just never a call for it. Rangers, gadjeteers, ninjas (even warriors with gun or bow trained up) are better for ranged damage, and it's just about always better to sleep/stun a whole group than it is to inflict spell damage. Have your fighting classes do the damage, and your casters prevent the enemies from fighting back. The one exception might be the mass insects and flowers you find in some places, where they can do ok damage or sleep your party, but have little hitpoints - if you can take out a bunch with an AoE attack it can sometimes work out better than CC'g them

The problem is that most of the game you actually fight against creatures of the variety you pointed out in that post. Even things like those flying snakes are ok to do with pure damage spells because wasting half of the rounds to ''run'' towards every single monster is less rational than to fry them from where you are. Also, ammunition takes a lot of weight so i prefer not to depend on it that much.

 

[Jasede]

Well, the beauty of the game is that you're free to fight any way you please, as long as you kill them. It's been so long since I played the game, but I distinctly remember running a combination of direct-damage spells and status-effects. Since I had so many hybrids there were plenty of fireballs and such flinging around, enough to kill lesser enemies from a distance without much effort- and for melee and Rapax we'd resort to status effects.

This was on "Normal" difficulty, though, and the Rapax took quite some time as we mainly relied on the Critical Kill skill activating to take them out once they were disabled. If I had to play the game again I'd dedicate a caster to instant death spells just for that occasion.

 

[DraQ]

stamina is ultra-easy to recover via regenerating items

Except in combat it's not. Stamina regenerating lockets give you 1/2 extra rounds at best before you need stamina/restall or potion. I really don't see why these amulets are some overrated that many even insist on having female bards/gadgeteers. There are much more useful amulets like the ring of the road for example. I think that +40 strength will improve stamina more significantly by maximizing it's total pool than couple of +1 regen items that doesn't have any additional bonus.

Also, mana, unlike stamina, doesn't really affect anything but spellcasting. If your hybrid runs out of mana, they can still tank, shoot and swing just as effectively, if your caster runs out, well, it's worse, but it still doesn't make them any more vulnerable and they can still bash enemy overt the head or sling them in the eye, with a bit of luck.

If a character burns all the stamina on instruments/gadgets, then, then you have a problem. It isn't that bad if they are second liners or have someone to guard or revive them fast, but if it's your first line bard swinging bloodlust who slumps down on the ground in front of some heavy-hitting enemies, then they are fucked hard.

The only type of spells I'd really counsel against are those that do ordinary direct damage. There's just never a call for it. Rangers, gadjeteers, ninjas (even warriors with gun or bow trained up) are better for ranged damage, and it's just about always better to sleep/stun a whole group than it is to inflict spell damage. Have your fighting classes do the damage, and your casters prevent the enemies from fighting back. The one exception might be the mass insects and flowers you find in some places, where they can do ok damage or sleep your party, but have little hitpoints - if you can take out a bunch with an AoE attack it can sometimes work out better than CC'g them

The problem is that most of the game you actually fight against creatures of the variety you pointed out in that post. Even things like those flying snakes are ok to do with pure damage spells because wasting half of the rounds to ''run'' towards every single monster is less rational than to fry them from where you are. Also, ammunition takes a lot of weight so i prefer not to depend on it that much.

This, all spells have their place. Damage spells are generally more effective against swarms of weaker enemies (but so are disabling effects), but your caster will generally still do more damage with direct damage spell than with a stick.
And some spells combine damage and status effects.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Spells that combine direct damage and status are always the best of all spells available. Damage may be low, but inflicting different status affects is phenomenal. However, I always wondered what the draw to a mage was, with direct damage spells like Nuke, etc. Major power drain and not really enough damage I always thought.

 

[Daniel Valiente]

I have a question concerning multiclassing. I have a priest in my party, and he's already learnt all the priest spells there are. Now, he is eligible to become a fighter. The question is: will he lose the ability to cast spells if he changes his class? I can't save-try-load, as I'm playing in the Iron Man mode.

 

[riptide]

Can you be arsed to back up your save and try it?

 

[Daniel Valiente]

Can you be arsed to back up your save and try it?

Man, it never occurred to me... But I'm not a cheat to do that. Kills the entire poin of playing with no saves. Ah, I'll just go and try to google it out.

 

[Gnidrologist]

As far as i know all learned skills are still usable, it's just that they wont go up anymore. You will only receive learn-by-use training on those that are allowed for current class. I'm not big on multiclassing though so might be mistaking.

 

[DraQ]

Can you be arsed to back up your save and try it?

Man, it never occurred to me... But I'm not a cheat to do that. Kills the entire poin of playing with no saves. Ah, I'll just go and try to google it out.

You can always delete it after checking.


Personally I keep backups in case something bad happens to the hardware or software*.

*) Engine brainfarts resulting in party falling to their deaths through solid geometry included.

 

[Shannow]

Ex-Priest wouldn't be able to equip priest-only equipment anymore and he loses turn-undead, the bonus to divinity and pray. But he should still be able to cast.
I hear many change from priest to lord or valkyrie.

Spells that combine direct damage and status are always the best of all spells available. Damage may be low, but inflicting different status affects is phenomenal. However, I always wondered what the draw to a mage was, with direct damage spells like Nuke, etc. Major power drain and not really enough damage I always thought.

And I never understood why people only consider the late-game when considering the power/usefulness of a class. Must be some mmo-thing Mage gives you access to great spells (missle shield, enchanted blade, etc) early. He'll always deal good damage and have a good spell selection. Not "the best" at all points (if any) in the game, but never shitty either. I don't like Nuke either, but there's enough other stuff that's nice against low-hit-point enemies.

 

[Daniel Valiente]

Can you be arsed to back up your save and try it?

Engine brainfarts resulting in party falling to their deaths through solid geometry included

Man, I wish I had listened to you! Would you believe that the same shit happened to me today — again?! A 19 level party wasted... Damn. Guess that was meant to discourage me from playing games when I should be writing by dissertation on poetry translation :3

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

*) Engine brainfarts resulting in party falling to their deaths through solid geometry included.

Jesus fucking Christ .

 

[Admiral jimbob]

flashbacks to horrible terminal-velocity ethereal sojourns through Vivec cantons

 

[DraQ]

And I never understood why people only consider the late-game when considering the power/usefulness of a class. Must be some mmo-thing Mage gives you access to great spells (missle shield, enchanted blade, etc) early. He'll always deal good damage and have a good spell selection. Not "the best" at all points (if any) in the game, but never shitty either. I don't like Nuke either, but there's enough other stuff that's nice against low-hit-point enemies.

Maybe because they don't lose that much of their spellcasting potential, while acquiring other abilities and typically broadening their equipment selection?

As for the Nuke - that's what happens if you partition your game length-wise according to elemental resistances - I think would be pretty happy to have Nuke in Bayjiin, but it isn't terribly worthwhile in the Rapax areas.

flashbacks to horrible terminal-velocity ethereal sojourns through Vivec cantons

I see Bethesda has taught you well.

Can you be arsed to back up your save and try it?

Engine brainfarts resulting in party falling to their deaths through solid geometry included

Man, I wish I had listened to you! Would you believe that the same shit happened to me today — again?! A 19 level party wasted... Damn. Guess that was meant to discourage me from playing games when I should be writing by dissertation on poetry translation :3

It's one thing when you start reloading your save, making up all the stupid reasons (like "ok, this group of Rynjiins that wasted my party was totally unexpected, I mean it's not really my fault that they have randomly spawned and raped me - good thing I have backups").

It's completely different thing when the engine decides to TPK you for no reason, or does some clunky physic thing and throws you into a group of non-hostile guards from a faction you'd rather stay on friendly terms with, who then proceed to attack you for trespassing.

The former happens rarely in Wiz8 (it does, though, as you have seen), but the latter can be relatively frequent as engine doesn't handle collision gracefully at higher movement speeds and bumping into something seemimngly innocent like a light fixture or small bump on the floor can send your party flying.

Plus, deleting your backup after justified TPK is kind of cathartic.

 

[Shannow]

And I never understood why people only consider the late-game when considering the power/usefulness of a class. Must be some mmo-thing Mage gives you access to great spells (missle shield, enchanted blade, etc) early. He'll always deal good damage and have a good spell selection. Not "the best" at all points (if any) in the game, but never shitty either. I don't like Nuke either, but there's enough other stuff that's nice against low-hit-point enemies.

Maybe because they don't lose that much of their spellcasting potential, while acquiring other abilities and typically broadening their equipment selection?

Huh? I wasn't talking about classchanging. I was talking about mages (not) being "bad". Which to me - since "Nuke" was mentioned - seemed to be a very late-game consideration. Of course if you consider them "bad" late-game and "good" early-game you can start with one and change their class later (though I personally wouldn't bother).

 

[DraQ]

And I never understood why people only consider the late-game when considering the power/usefulness of a class. Must be some mmo-thing Mage gives you access to great spells (missle shield, enchanted blade, etc) early. He'll always deal good damage and have a good spell selection. Not "the best" at all points (if any) in the game, but never shitty either. I don't like Nuke either, but there's enough other stuff that's nice against low-hit-point enemies.

Maybe because they don't lose that much of their spellcasting potential, while acquiring other abilities and typically broadening their equipment selection?

Huh? I wasn't talking about classchanging. I was talking about mages (not) being "bad". Which to me - since "Nuke" was mentioned - seemed to be a very late-game consideration. Of course if you consider them "bad" late-game and "good" early-game you can start with one and change their class later (though I personally wouldn't bother).

Ah, now it makes sense.

I don't know it either. This late-game utility being the only consideration is doubly absurd in large, open sandboxes like Morrowind, where you will probably retire your character several times over by the time it would take you to actually reach the point where your "endgame utility" matters.
Bonus points of the game is mechanically broken in extremely exploitable fashion.

Still, in Wizardry 8, fapping to the sweet visions of the future wile making characters is part of the game.