Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Wizardry The Wizardry Series Thread

I_am_Ian

Arbiter
Patron
Joined
Feb 16, 2012
Messages
507
Location
The United States of America
I want to keep this thread going because this game deserves to be forever on the first page of this forum.

One of the things I love most about Wizardry 8 is that the basic fighter class is actually the best melee class in the game. Fighters are powerful from the first battle and will deal the most damage per round all the way up to your last battle. Sure a rogue has potential to match the damage output of a fighter but without the innate ability to KO opponents and the robustness of a heavily armored fighter. Also the fighter has the most hit points of any class by a large margin.

I have never played a game through without at least one fighter.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
I looked around Arnika and now am just setting out to Trynton. I'm sure I missed stuff but I checked out the wreckage, I spoke to the major townspeople, I did shopping, I looted the jail and stayed away from the tower. There was a locked building with a strange keyhole I couldn't work out, either.

I'm definitely having fun, but I don't see anything special about the game, either. I was excited by the character creation, but once I've made my party, the range of tactical options seem pretty typical, and the enemies dumb brutes. We'll see how that changes later on though.
 

Lonely Vazdru

Pimp my Title
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,688
Location
Agen
I got my first total party annihilation in my iron man game. Random encounter, three level 15 geomancers (I was level 12) in the Umpani camp. The motherfuckers single shot killed my characters with level 7 "crush" and decimated the rest with "whipping rocks". Fortunately I do a back-up save of the game everytime I quit (yeah I'm a fag) and since I had just got back to playing when it happened (my save was in the Umpani camp) I could replay the fight over and over, or avoid it altogether. I decided to try to win it, and did, but it took me three tries. I had to hide deep in the umpani base and let the privates have fun with dying outside (R.I.P private Panrack :salute:) , then pound the body of stoned wizards without dying too much myself.
Now I'm in the Mt Gigas caves and the black slimes are very dangerous opponents, they regularly kill my low HP psionic.

I'm definitely having fun, but I don't see anything special about the game, either.I was excited by the character creation, but once I've made my party, the range of tactical options seem pretty typical, and the enemies dumb brutes. We'll see how that changes later on though.
Did you play any other turn based blobers ? Because the tactical options of WIZ8 make it way deeper than any of them. It's not perfect but it's enough to grant a "special" status to the game. It's certainly not "typical". Unless you played some damn fine turn based blobers.
 

Major_Blackhart

Codexia Lord Sodom
Patron
Joined
Dec 5, 2002
Messages
18,357
Location
Jersey for now
Yeah, those fights are killers.
You shouldn't be going through the mountain wilderness till you're at least level 15, having completed a lot of that Trynton/Marten's Bluff/Crock work.
 

Jaesun

Fabulous Ex-Moderator
Patron
Joined
May 14, 2004
Messages
37,377
Location
Seattle, WA USA
MCA Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech
To be honest, the full Wizardry experience is to play 6 then 7 then 8. You get more of an overall.... experience of the series.

Jumping straight into 8 as your first Wizardry just does not paint the whole picture. You are just missing the whole painting as it were.
 

Major_Blackhart

Codexia Lord Sodom
Patron
Joined
Dec 5, 2002
Messages
18,357
Location
Jersey for now
True. I always thought it was amazing that so much went into the detail of the game series, that they would continue it on so far after 7 ended.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Did you play any other turn based blobers ? Because the tactical options of WIZ8 make it way deeper than any of them. It's not perfect but it's enough to grant a "special" status to the game. It's certainly not "typical". Unless you played some damn fine turn based blobers.

This is just about my first blobber, and maybe that's the thing. Without getting into which is 'better' overall, in terms of tactical options, and feeling like I need to consider various different abilities I can use, etc., I think IE games do a very good job; then there's games like King's Bounty / HOMM / Age of Wonders, Knights of the Chalice, etc. So that's the kind of stuff I'm comparing it to, which maybe isn't fair, but as far as I can see the main point of Wizardry 8 is combat, so...

I have Wiz7 on the hard-drive, but wanted to start with 8 then see whether I'd want to do a 6-7-8 run.
 

Jaesun

Fabulous Ex-Moderator
Patron
Joined
May 14, 2004
Messages
37,377
Location
Seattle, WA USA
MCA Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech
Seriously, do a Wizardry 6-7-8 run. It is an absolute blast. 6 Is probably the pinnacle of the Wizardry series in terms of mechanics (it is not without it's flaws however). 7 is in my opinion the best of the series. But bringing that party to 8 is so rewarding. Be sure to get a certain thing in 6....

You can thank me later. ;)
 

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,718
Out of Gadgeteer and Bard, Bard was easily the most useful early and mid level, with Gadgeteer becoming better towards the end.
However, Bard was still badass due to shit tons of musical instruments, while Gadgeteer was only useful for a gadgets overall (some good ones were cut from final product. Bastards!)
I'd like to see a mod put in place that puts in some more Gadgeteer type stuff, balance the class against Bard. My Dracon Bard was an insane damage dealer with Bloodlust (Dracon, duh!) and was great with the instruments too.
I always find the bard class pretty boring when compared to gadgeteer. Yes, it is extremely useful, but somehow putting the gadgets together and upgrading omnigun with all the status-inflicting abilities wins it for me. Also the high-level armorplate you can get pretty early on is awesome.

This is just about my first blobber, and maybe that's the thing. Without getting into which is 'better' overall, in terms of tactical options, and feeling like I need to consider various different abilities I can use, etc., I think IE games do a very good job; then there's games like King's Bounty / HOMM / Age of Wonders, Knights of the Chalice, etc. So that's the kind of stuff I'm comparing it to, which maybe isn't fair, but as far as I can see the main point of Wizardry 8 is combat, so...
I find these comparisons pretty strange, none of the games you mention stand out in the tactics department that much, with the notable exception of KotC. Perhaps it stems from the fact that you did not meet the more murderous, status-inflicting enemies yet. When it comes to blobbers, I think only Etrian Odyssey games compare to Wizardry when it comes to tactical fights with builds/skills/items to consider.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
As I say, i can in no way pass judgment on Wizardry 8's complexity yet. And stop tempting me to start over again from 6, damnit. I already want to remake this party. We'll see if I can find somewhere to get Wiz6 from. Maybe.

The games I mention aren't necessarily super-complex, but maybe I sort of expected Wiz8 to blow those ones out of the water, which is a bit unfair. As I say, I'm having fun so I'll see how things get further on.
 

Ashery

Prophet
Joined
May 24, 2008
Messages
1,337
Huh, would you look at that...7am now...

Decided to try it out finally thanks to Vazdru's screenshots in the, err, screenshot thread.

Nothing else to say; Time to pass out...zzz...
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,977
Location
Russia
Anyone had trouble with sound with Windows 7? All sounds work for me, but monster attack sounds and spell sounds don't play.
 

Rpgsaurus Rex

Guest
As I say, i can in no way pass judgment on Wizardry 8's complexity yet. And stop tempting me to start over again from 6, damnit. I already want to remake this party. We'll see if I can find somewhere to get Wiz6 from. Maybe.

The games I mention aren't necessarily super-complex, but maybe I sort of expected Wiz8 to blow those ones out of the water, which is a bit unfair. As I say, I'm having fun so I'll see how things get further on.

Wizardries are just... well, endearing. The more you play them, the more they grow on you. Six different party members with their voice "personalities" that slowly improve in their skills, and you see them grow from measly newbies to munchkin powerhouses. Wiz8 won't improve drastically since Arnika, I'd say gameplay quality stays even until the end with some fun spikes (wait till you enter the great water cavern... you'll be shocked the first time, I guarantee that!).

Don't expect great tactical combat or anything like that (though still pretty good for a pseudo-blobber, like Vazdru said), just a long, fun road to the Ascension peak. ;)
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,977
Location
Russia
Anyone had trouble with sound with Windows 7? All sounds work for me, but monster attack sounds and spell sounds don't play.
Ignore this, just had to choose DirectSound3D Software Emulation at setup
 

DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
32,828
Location
Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
My Dracon Bard was an insane damage dealer with Bloodlust (Dracon, duh!) and was great with the instruments too.
TBH I consider Dracon bards/gadgeteers to be a bit of waste of special ability (not questioning their general power).

Now, Dracon rogue with Bloodlust (backstab and berserk stack, and there is ini bonus, swd bonus and extra swing), Thieves Dagger and focus on damage, with breath attack backed up by thrown bombs as means of ranged attack and crowd control can become rather brutal.

Fortunately I do a back-up save of the game everytime I quit (yeah I'm a fag)
Well, you do have to admit it isn't quite the regular ironman experience if you rely on backup when beaten legitimately (as opposed to falling through faulty geometry and crushing yourself or getting launched into the air by faulty collision and landing in the middle of a group you'd rather avoid).


I always find the bard class pretty boring when compared to gadgeteer. Yes, it is extremely useful, but somehow putting the gadgets together and upgrading omnigun with all the status-inflicting abilities wins it for me. Also the high-level armorplate you can get pretty early on is awesome.
I think gadgeteer and bard classes are simply very different despite their superficial similarity.

Bards are very flexible - yes, their main role is playing instruments, but other than that they can be party's locksmiths, pickpockets, ranged combatants or close combat specialists, first or second liners and excel at any of those roles.

Gadgeteers, OTOH are very focused - they are their gadgets first and omnigun second. You won't put them on the first line (unless you badly need yet another meatshield), you won't give them any cursed weapon, they are generally stuck in their role. The only decision you make with gadgeteer is whether they will be party's locksmith or not.

The only problem with gadgeteers is gadget distribution - Bard starts with Poet's Lute, which isn't bad if used wisely and not in conjunction with AoE or ranged attacks and possibly a weapon. Gadgeteer starts with ugly paperweight omnigun Mk.1, and bag of stones that aren't even equipped. Yay.

By the middle of Road to Arnika your bard will have three instruments and will likely be party's prominent, if not outright primary buffer, AoE damage person and crowd disabler in addition to becoming semi-proficient with ranged or melee weapon of choice. At the same point your gadgeteer will have some shitty early model of omnigun and lightning rod.

Gadgeteer generally won't become truly useful before Trynton (Lava Lamp), by which time your bard will be able inflict mass slowness and insanity in addition to his AoE, buffs, and mass sleep.

Also it would be cool if there was some more recipes, especially mutually exclusive ones (more gadgets using item only obtainable once) and recipes for items usable by other party members (as it already works with multishot crossbows), maybe even make some gadgets weapons (microwave blaster). There are also items already in game that would work better as gadgets, especially if you had to assemble them first (flamethrower anyone?).

Finally, it would be neat if Gadgeteer randomly produced small quantites of ammo for one of the modern weapons equipped by party members.

This is just about my first blobber, and maybe that's the thing. Without getting into which is 'better' overall, in terms of tactical options, and feeling like I need to consider various different abilities I can use, etc., I think IE games do a very good job; then there's games like King's Bounty / HOMM / Age of Wonders, Knights of the Chalice, etc. So that's the kind of stuff I'm comparing it to, which maybe isn't fair, but as far as I can see the main point of Wizardry 8 is combat, so...
I find these comparisons pretty strange, none of the games you mention stand out in the tactics department that much, with the notable exception of KotC. Perhaps it stems from the fact that you did not meet the more murderous, status-inflicting enemies yet. When it comes to blobbers, I think only Etrian Odyssey games compare to Wizardry when it comes to tactical fights with builds/skills/items to consider.
Also this.

While don't find Wiz8 all that tactical, it certainly requires more thought in this regard than most RPGs. Also, playing it on ironman, where you have to manage fights gone sour and their consequences certainly adds to tactics.

Wizardries are just... well, endearing. The more you play them, the more they grow on you. Six different party members with their voice "personalities" that slowly improve in their skills, and you see them grow from measly newbies to munchkin powerhouses.
This. This is the main allure of Wiz8 for me apart from making your party, then butchering shit with it.

Wiz8 won't improve drastically since Arnika, I'd say gameplay quality stays even until the end with some fun spikes
Gameplay maybe, but Arnika is definitely not the most interesting location in game. It's pretty typical human town, while many other locations are, well, pretty wild and diverse.

pseudo-blobber
Why pseudo?
 

Rpgsaurus Rex

Guest
I'm used to thinking of a classic blobber as a game where you move on a grid square by square. (like Wiz1-7) Don't know if that's what "blobber" w.r.t. cRPGs actually means, tho; I might be wrong.
 

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,718
I guess it's more about moving a party of characters as one "blob" in an fpp view.
By the middle of Road to Arnika your bard will have three instruments and will likely be party's prominent, if not outright primary buffer, AoE damage person and crowd disabler in addition to becoming semi-proficient with ranged or melee weapon of choice. At the same point your gadgeteer will have some shitty early model of omnigun and lightning rod.
Yes, gadgeteer starts pretty weak and it's obviously a class geared towards becoming a heavy artillery in the later part of the game. Lightning rod isn't half bad though, it can deal some heavy damage early on, comparable to berserked warrior. Duct tape helps when killing powerful single enemies like hogars or golems when being underleveled.

The double shot crossbow also rocks the early game, especially if you have a ranger in the team.

And, not denying that bard get many useful instruments earlier, you can rush for some very good stuff. You can get high level armorplate right after clearing Trynton (best thing ever), you can sneak past Monastery entrance to get Heal All (have to level a bit to use that one though), the Noxious fumes gadget also isn't that far away and it deals some pretty heavy damage with added status effects, being a blessing against hordes of low hp stuff.
 

DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
32,828
Location
Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
I guess it's more about moving a party of characters as one "blob" in an fpp view.
By the middle of Road to Arnika your bard will have three instruments and will likely be party's prominent, if not outright primary buffer, AoE damage person and crowd disabler in addition to becoming semi-proficient with ranged or melee weapon of choice. At the same point your gadgeteer will have some shitty early model of omnigun and lightning rod.
Yes, gadgeteer starts pretty weak and it's obviously a class geared towards becoming a heavy artillery in the later part of the game.
Yeah, but all the classes are powerful later in game while also being useful at the beginning, the only exceptions I can think of are elites (4-school and ninja) and non-standard combos, but then you know what kind of mess you want to go into.

Lightning rod isn't half bad though, it can deal some heavy damage early on, comparable to berserked warrior. Duct tape helps when killing powerful single enemies like hogars or golems when being underleveled.
Yeah, but lightning rod is still just raw damage on single target and noms a lot of stamina, while duct tape is single target, can fail and has limited uses (also gadgeteer should start off with it, it just fits the archetype).

The double shot crossbow also rocks the early game, especially if you have a ranger in the team.
Of course, you have to find that second crossbow first, which you probably won't until Arnika.

And, not denying that bard get many useful instruments earlier, you can rush for some very good stuff. You can get high level armorplate right after clearing Trynton (best thing ever)
At which point your Bard will get unlimited haste, and if you have any divine casters, they will probably be capable of casting decent armorplate as well.

you can sneak past Monastery entrance to get Heal All (have to level a bit to use that one though), the Noxious fumes gadget also isn't that far away and it deals some pretty heavy damage with added status effects, being a blessing against hordes of low hp stuff.
The former requires enough mettle to handle SE wilderness and rather risky combat sneak, while the latter cannot be completed before Marten's Bluff and your alchemy/arcane caster will probably be capable of spamming high level fumes at this point.
 

eric__s

ass hater
Developer
Joined
Jun 13, 2011
Messages
2,301
What do you all think about making a bard and focusing full-time on magic instead of instruments? This worked great for me in Wizardry 7 but I don't know how it'll go in 8.
 

Rpgsaurus Rex

Guest
Bard doesn't have access to any spells in Wiz8 (unlike Wiz7, say, where he had access to Mage spells IIRC), he can only cast stuff through instruments. Good news is, a Bard can make a decent melee (though not as good as, say, a Thief or a Fighter). They are a very strong class overall, provided you explore every nook and cranny for those instruments.
 

eric__s

ass hater
Developer
Joined
Jun 13, 2011
Messages
2,301
Whaaaaaaaat? Are you fucking serious? Fuck bards, I'm going gadgeteer

Man, I've actually beaten this game before but never with bards. I had no idea they couldn't use magic anymore.
 

DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
32,828
Location
Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
Whaaaaaaaat? Are you fucking serious? Fuck bards, I'm going gadgeteer

Man, I've actually beaten this game before but never with bards. I had no idea they couldn't use magic anymore.
It's not like gadgeteers have any access to magic either.

Both classes are actually quite similar mechanically, even though they differ in versatility and flavour.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom