Wizardry The Wizardry Series Thread

[eric__s]

Yeah, my understanding is that bards sort of peter out towards the end whereas gadgeteers only get more powerful as the game progresses. I've never used either and I want to make a party that has a bit of a slow start but gets really strong towards the end.

 

[Rpgsaurus Rex]

Bards stay very strong throughout: a Sleep instrument at level 1 is pretty good already, an Insanity-casting instrument is not too far away either and you just keep finding better and better instruments until the endgame. The only thing going for Gadgeteers over Bards in lategame is the Omnigun, but in early-mid it's quite underwhelming. Frankly, it sucks compared to your other ranged options, unless you're willing to shell out for the best ammunition out there (damn expensive). For example, Ranger and Ninja have ranged INSTANT KILL!!! chance (that grows with levels) as is, better ammunition makes them stronger but they don't *need* it.

Like DraQ said, they differ in flavour and in that regard I prefer Gadgeteers despite their flaws - I enjoy finding and making all those nifty gadgets. Lightning Rod is amazing for the early-early game, too (probably your biggest damage output until your fighter finds a good weapon to berzerk with).

 

[DraQ]

Yeah. Late in game Omnigun becomes a wunderwaffe that can be loaded with practically anything (including high end x-bow bolts and arrows), shoots full auto, hits often and inflicts all known status effects, but early on it's little more than fancy paperweight that's slow, inaccurate and limited to firing shitty bullet stones and darts, which makes it inferior to sling/empty hand, which fires the same bullet stones and darts, except faster and more accurately.

Bards don't get the omnigun, but they can equip a good share of melee and ranged weaponry (which gadgeteers can but probably won't equip due to being focused on modern weapons and waiting that moment when their omnigun stops sucking and turns into engine of death and mayhem), including the best sword ever (that probably won't even drop in your game).

Bards can also use some nice, bard exclusive gear when it's obtained.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

What's considered the Best Sword Ever for Bards?

 

[DraQ]

What's considered the Best Sword Ever for Bards?

*light* *sword*?

 

[Major_Blackhart]

That has never dropped for me in-game. Ever.

 

[DraQ]

That has never dropped for me in-game. Ever.

I've seen it once by severely abusing save&load.

But you can still use anything that isn't heavy sword or weeaboo only sword or some rare stuff like Ivory blade - if rogue can swing it, bard should be able to as well.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Does Ivory Blade actually do as much damage per swing as Bloodlust? It should technically do more, but because you're always in Berserk mode with it, you do double damage (I think) always. I don't know if with those things factored in if Ivory Sword is better or not. Pretty badass actually. It's one of those blades that can be good for a helluva long time.
Also, Fang was another great sword to get.

 

[Rpgsaurus Rex]

That has never dropped for me in-game. Ever.

Spoiler

1) In the fixed "Buccaneer ghosts" encounter in the water cavern area by the shipwreck (past Nessie), kill all the ghosts but 1.
2) Run away until encounter ends.
3) Bait the remaining ghost just around the corner so he's close to you but not close enough to initiate combat.
4) Save game.
5) Kill him. Did he drop the sword? If no, load the saved game in 4) and repeat this step (warning: this might take you a few hours). If yes, congratulations! You now have the best weapon in the game.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Well, the randomness of drops in Wiz8 (as well as some bizarre class/race restrictions) is definitely overstretched. I still remember trying a dagger-based ninja and raging at the inability to find a single Sai despite severe save-scumming.

Yeah, but all the classes are powerful later in game while also being useful at the beginning, the only exceptions I can think of are elites (4-school and ninja) and non-standard combos, but then you know what kind of mess you want to go into.

That's true, gagdeteer is definitely the weakest class at the get-go and they should offset that by making him start with some useful gadget. On the other hand, that makes watching him grow in power even more satisfactory.

Yeah, but lightning rod is still just raw damage on single target and noms a lot of stamina, while duct tape is single target, can fail and has limited uses (also gadgeteer should start off with it, it just fits the archetype).

Both aren't extremely impressive, but very useful in some situations, for example the hogars at Trynton.

Of course, you have to find that second crossbow first, which you probably won't until Arnika.

Yes, you usually buy the second one from that old hag in Arnika. And at that point it's a great asset to have. You won't get good bows for quite a long time and triple crossbow is waiting as well.

At which point your Bard will get unlimited haste, and if you have any divine casters, they will probably be capable of casting decent armorplate as well.

Priest will have the best shot, but 7th die will still probably be red so have fun on iron man and it will eat most of his earth mana. If you don't have a priest or a bishop at your team than have fun as well, hybrids won't be able to cast a decent armorplate for a very long time. At that point the gadgeteer will comfortably cast it at 6-7 dice no problem.

The former requires enough mettle to handle SE wilderness and rather risky combat sneak, while the latter cannot be completed before Marten's Bluff and your alchemy/arcane caster will probably be capable of spamming high level fumes at this point.

When you are levelled enough to use heal all you will cope with wilderness and the sneak is not risky at all. Having a "free" 6-7 dice offensive spell is always an asset, especially since I generally avoid offensive spell casters, apart from a few exceptions.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

Fortunately I do a back-up save of the game everytime I quit (yeah I'm a fag)

Well, you do have to admit it isn't quite the regular ironman experience if you rely on backup when beaten legitimately (as opposed to falling through faulty geometry and crushing yourself or getting launched into the air by faulty collision and landing in the middle of a group you'd rather avoid).

Sure, it's not the ultimate iron man experience but it's good enough for me and still a far cry from "regular" playing. Having reached level 13 and reloaded only once brings me more satisfaction than the extra purity of watching a game over screen. Let's say I'm playing tin man.

 

[I_am_Ian]

Does Ivory Blade actually do as much damage per swing as Bloodlust? It should technically do more, but because you're always in Berserk mode with it, you do double damage (I think) always. I don't know if with those things factored in if Ivory Sword is better or not. Pretty badass actually. It's one of those blades that can be good for a helluva long time.
Also, Fang was another great sword to get.

Bloodlust is one of the better swords in the game despite its low damage rating (5-13). The auto berserk mode and extra attack per round essentially quadruple it's damage rating. But the sword really comes into its own when you hand it over to your rogue whose backstabbing skill stacks with all the other bonuses of Bloodlust. It's non uncommon to see a high level rogue deal over 400 damage in a single round with this weapon. And your rogue will likely be attacking first each round because of the +6 to initiative from the sword.

The cursed nature of the sword is its only compromise. A Dracon's acid breath is not affected so it is a good race to make a Bloodlust Rogue with. Teach him to throw bombs and use scrolls and his lack of ranged attacking can be greatly mitigated.

 

[Black]

But if you're using Bloodlust on your rogue (on whoever, really) better make sure you have enough stamina (or stamina regen).

 

[I_am_Ian]

But if you're using Bloodlust on your rogue (on whoever, really) better make sure you have enough stamina (or stamina regen).

Excellent point, Black. The naturally high vitality of the Dracon makes it even more suitable to wield bloodlust. A female Dracon would be perfect because of the female-only stamina regenerating accessories available early on in the game. Otherwise you'll want to save plenty of stamina potions or have somebody who can cast stamina at your rogue to keep them attacking.

 

[DraQ]

Does Ivory Blade actually do as much damage per swing as Bloodlust? It should technically do more, but because you're always in Berserk mode with it, you do double damage (I think) always. I don't know if with those things factored in if Ivory Sword is better or not. Pretty badass actually. It's one of those blades that can be good for a helluva long time.

They do about the same mean damage per swing, so it depends:

-IB doesn't have extra swing, so, the less attacks you have the more edge does BL have over it.
-IB has a bit less initiative bonus, but it also has rather hefty to-hit one.
-IB has no berserk associated penalties (I think there are some regarding to-hit and penetration).
-IB completely outclasses BL if you're a fighter who can berserk on his own - especially if you are also fast fighter.
-IB isn't cursed.
-IB has small AC bonus, haste charges and (cosmetic) 1% K.O, BL has +5 to sword skill.

Also, Fang was another great sword to get.

Fang is wonderful - neat damage, high kill chance and you can even give it to a faerie if you're crazy enough to have a fae swordsman.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Faerie Samurai here I come.

 

[Shadenuat]

My new a bit experimental party is:
Human Samurai (STR/INT). I like this hybrid. For first half of the game as good as a mage. After that as good as a fighter.
Hobbit Rogue (STR/DEX). Can't say he performs worse than any fighter, really. Shoeless god of war. I once gave him a bow, and without any skill in it he started to shoot for 20 damage. So I kept bow as second weapon.
Human Monk (DEX/SEN/STR). Slow and steady. A party tank, by the way.
Hobbit Ninja (SEN/DEX/INT). Throwing master. Bo as a second weapon. Most kills in party so far.
Felpurr Bard... her stats are messy, probably SEN/INT, because she is an artifacts/mythology/communication master all in one.
Lizardman Priest. STR/PIE At level 11 she would already have 100 STR and PIE. Weapon skills progress slowly though, and I wonder if I should go with whip or staff.

So far I reached Arnika and killed some robots.

 

[The Great Deceiver]

It's a shame that the game gets boring in the late stages. By the time you get to Rapax Castle it just ceases to be fun, I never finished it. Replayed it 10 or more times though. Think I might go at it again.

 

[DraQ]

Faerie Samurai here I come.

Also, all weeaboo swords except 2h (I can only think of No-Dachi in that category, so no big deal) and, IIRC, Ivory Blade are faerie compatible.

Lizardman Priest. STR/PIE At level 11 she

I don't do female Lizardmen.
Inventory image is just too

to me.

Also, my trolololo ironman party (yes, the one with Dracon 4-schooler) is performing admirably. Reached Arnika yesterday - lvl6, so far no fatalities whatsoever, also my Dracon Bishop lags only three kills behind the party's best, despite only using 2 spell picks - mindstab at chargen and heal wounds soon after because I was paranoid about playing without healer - and spending a lot of time in combat trying to replenish Bard's stamina (to do - get those fucking necklaces from the temple and strangle the slutty bard with them).

Party composition is RAW LOR, FAE SAM, HUM BAR, DRA BIS, FEL NIN, DWA MON - bard and lord being Sirtech's stock characters, the rest my own.
Hybrids and ninja are intended to serve as secondary casters, supplementing the bishop with important spells till he finds the required books.

Curiously the undecisive (will probably settle down for spears for melee but so far haven't invested in melee) ninja is leading in terms of kill tally, while lord and monk are lagging behind considerably, with monk only having about half the kills of my suboptimal bishop. Samurai is also not so hot, although I expect him to improve once I get him some proper sword - punching and bonking shit with faerie stick isn't quite as effective when you specialize in swords. Lord is expected to improve once he gets Bloodlust which is not faerie compatible.

Currently running around Arnika shopping for reading material.

 

[Shadenuat]

If you want to make a kicking machine out of monk early, then max DEX and SPD and wear two ankhs of strength, Draq. Just wait till he gets 3 attacks/2 swings ect. It's about level 8.

Inventory image is just too

Well at first she was intended to be all that cute little human or elf, but then I switched to Lizardmen, saw the highest stats possible and just went with it. The weapon options suck though. Already got Magic Screen, maybe I could multi her to Valk and give her a three meter Lance?

Where can I buy a thousand of shuriken btw?

 

[DraQ]

If you want to make a kicking machine out of monk early, then max DEX and SPD and wear two ankhs of strength, Draq. Just wait till he gets 3 attacks/2 swings ect. It's about level 8.

It's dwarf monk, I'm not passing on that opportunity to get iron skin on top of stacked dwarven and monk damage resistance.

His name is Brother Grigorij, BTW (or Grisha in short - it's not like you can go for proper eastern style monk with a dwarf so you might as well drop all pretence), specifically to refer to his planned resistance (Rasputin's name was Grigorij, so I thought it'd fit).

Inventory image is just too

Well at first she was intended to be all that cute little human or elf, but then I switched to Lizardmen, saw the highest stats possible and just went with it.

I'd probably just roll with a male.

The weapon options suck though.

Wait, we're still talking of priest here, which means maces and staves, right? o_O

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Go Mace all the way with a lizardman priest.
I usually roll a male for that one, so that I can switch over to Lord and dual wield maces.
But a valk with a mace is just as dangerous. Go for it.

 

[Shadenuat]

Yeah, I've switched to enchanted mace and it's good.
Which level do you switch class, Major_Blackhart?

It's dwarf monk

Oh, he has a long road ahead of him. I usually avoid that combo because dumping so many points into SPD to compensate for race seems wrong.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

People say you're suppose to switch at 18. I like to wait around 20, when you've gotten essentially a shit load of high end spells rather than a few.
Don't spend on the lower end. You can just buy books.

 

[Rpgsaurus Rex]

If you want to make a kicking machine out of monk early, then max DEX and SPD and wear two ankhs of strength, Draq. Just wait till he gets 3 attacks/2 swings ect. It's about level 8.

Inventory image is just too

Well at first she was intended to be all that cute little human or elf, but then I switched to Lizardmen, saw the highest stats possible and just went with it. The weapon options suck though. Already got Magic Screen, maybe I could multi her to Valk and give her a three meter Lance?

Where can I buy a thousand of shuriken btw?

You can always go the the "Catheral buttrape fight" place early and fetch the returning shuriken by abusing the run command. Assuming your level is high enough to handle the random fight shizzle.