The writing in this game is average

[Irenaeus]

The writing in this thread is average.

 

[hiver]

Something just occurred to me: Does anyone think the plot was hurt by the introduction of the villain so early in the game?

Why? Baldur's Gate 2 OPENS with Irenicus, one of the best villains of all-time. The real problem I see is that it doesn't give much depth to him, even with all that screen time. He's smart, powerful, evil and determined... and that's it.

You never see him Interacting with others, like Irenicus does. The way he downplays the Cowled Wizards, him taking over Spellhold, his past, his relationship with Bodhi, the dream-sequences... all that made him memorable (and the badass vboice acting). Although you meet Thaos early, he's mostly in secret, you only really get to know him in the last hour of the game.

And most importantly - he interacted with the player and affected the player directly.

The game didnt just tell you he was evil, powerful and dangerous - it showed it - directly on you. First at the beginning when Irenicus is burning you - which wasnt that effective since you as a player wasnt connected to your character yet, but that was only the beginning of getting you involved - and then much more in Spellhold when you are already connected to your character - and then had him dismiss you arrogantly after he was done with you - which actually affected your character stats and abilities.

He was a good villain i loved to hate.

If he's really that good a villain, why are you describing him in platitudes?

Do you have anything else but simplistic, cheap, superficial reverse psychology puns that are actually wrong to add to the discussion?

He's a cliche power-hungry villain. His story is also surprisingly barebones - he decides he wants the power of a god some day for...reasons.

:applause:

 

[tyrannosaurus rex]

I've seen little if any politically correct dogshit in PoE. And I'm an expert in politically correct dogshit.

You are also a fanboy...


The legions of armor clad female warriors leaders makes it hard to take seriously. Half the characters also seem completely out of place, like the village's inhabitant, half of them dressed in flamoyant clothes or wearing shiny armors.

There doesn't appear to be any sort of cohesion either. Anywere. Not just the city docks where it would make sense.

And that Dwarven companion. So agreeable. Was this one supposed to cater to any group?

 

[Lhynn]

Stop being a dumbfuck Athelas, irenicus worked, and it wasnt because of his voice actor, tho that has a part on it. It was because it worked as an adversary, an enemy to beat, a goal to pursue. When i said he is good as a target of hate i said a lot more that flew over your head, in the story he tortures you and those closest to you, he feels justified in his actions, a thing that adds wood to the fire, you want to get back, you cant help but admire his power, he says he can unlock your power, etc.
So many reasons to go after him, all of them emerging from the narrative, and finally vanquishing him feels so fucking good.

 

[felipepepe]

Whatever your opinion on Irenicus, he serves the game a lot better. He is a clear target, that serves as motivation for players, moves the plot forward, debates with the player and actually comes to respect you as the game progresses. Thaos is just doing his stuff. You seen him only three brief times until the end of the game, he talks only in one of those, and will actually notice you only at the encounter at the very end, when he dumps all his reasons at you in huge blocks of texts.

There are those past-lives interactions with him, but they don't say anything about him, it's just about building how your past life was. "I had a sister", "I come from X", "my favorite color is potato"...

 

[Commissar Draco]

Stop being a dumbfuck Athelas, irenicus worked, and it wasnt because of his voice actor, tho that has a part on it. It was because it worked as an adversary, an enemy to beat, a goal to pursue. When i said he is good as a target of hate i said a lot more thay flew over your head, in the story he tortures you and those closest to you, he feels justified in his actions, a thing that adds wood to the fire, you want to get back, you cant help but admire his power, he says he can unlock your power, etc.
So many reasons to go after him, all of them emerging from the narrative, and finally vanquishing him feels so fucking good.

And this is why I could not be bothered to pull my two playthrous od PoE cause the villain here (guess it must be dude in stupid helmet) is worst villain ever; so he killed the companions who you met ten minutes before and left? Why should I just go to defiance bay and return to my homeland on ship after muh promised 40 acres and mule deal of lifetime turns to be scam? What is my motivation to stay in this hick country besides some strange dreams which Imperial mages in Aethyr would be more qualified to unravel?

Spoiler

Only taking Ethosian Priest opened some angle for rightuess fury and furious anger... The Temple and Lord of Valley quests give you good motivation to go forward.... if you picked missionary or crisis of faith origin.

And why btw why you don't get the Lord Castle as player stronghold? Its ten times better than this indefeasible keep you got from main quest... It has no moat or proper donjon, its some stupid town with low city walls not Keep.

 

[hiver]

tyrannosaurus rex

The legions of armor clad female warriors leaders makes it hard to take seriously.

And i suppose you are in military yourself proving how girls cant do it, right? And only strong big men like you can be in military, right?

The rest of that doesnt have anything to do with political correctness and only a complete idiot would claim so.

 

[Athelas]

Stop being a dumbfuck Athelas, irenicus worked, and it wasnt because of his voice actor, tho that has a part on it. It was because it worked as an adversary, an enemy to beat, a goal to pursue.

How did it work? The most fun stuff in BG2 is the content in Athkatla, in other words: deliberately ignoring the main quest and by extension Irenicus (and Imoen, but who the hell cares about her).

When i said he is good as a target of hate i said a lot more thay flew over your head, in the story he tortures you and those closest to you,

Hundreds of other characters in this game try to murder you.

he feels justified in his actions

So do plenty of psychos (see above).

a thing that adds wood to the fire, you want to get back, you cant help but admire his power, he says he can unlock your power, etc.

This sounds...pretty weird (as in: weirdly erotic), even coming from you.

So many reasons to go after him, all of them emerging from the narrative

Ah yes, who could forget the riveting drama of answering a dozen of conversations with one of the following two options:

1. I intend to visit revenge on Irenicus, a mage who has done me harm and who is currently held captive by the Cowled Wizards.
2. I intend to rescue Imoen, my friend who's being held captive by the Cowled Wizards.

There is a pressing reason to pursue him much later (when he steals your soul) but I wouldn't exactly call a basic desire for self-preservation a compelling narrative.

 

[Gord]

Whatever your opinion on Irenicus, he serves the game a lot better. He is a clear target, that serves as motivation for players, moves the plot forward, debates with the player and actually comes to respect you as the game progresses.

While this is true, I don't necessarily see NOT having a clear enemy or exact understanding of what is going on behind the scenes as a bad thing.
(Regardless of whether certain aspects of it could be done better in PoE or not)

 

[tyrannosaurus rex]

hiver

This is what what appears to be a medieval/renaissance setting, with actual humans, with a human psychology as far as they tried to write it. With everything that comes with it.

I don't think having an almost equal amount of females in something that's akin to renaissance fighters is anything but cretinous. Cretinous as in the immature fantasy of a 14 year old. A cretin.

As of the military, dipshit, like modern military has anything to do with a legion of knights...

Spoiler

on a side note, even now there are very few females frontline infantry...

 

[Seari]

Imoen is your sister, why wouldn't you want to save her? You guys are dicks.

 

[felipepepe]

While this is true, I don't necessarily see NOT having a clear enemy or exact understanding of what is going on behind the scenes as a bad thing.
(Regardless of whether certain aspects of it could be done better in PoE or not)

Of course, vide The Master in Fallout.

 

[Nikaido]

Yeah, people are kinda forgetting the "role" in roleplaying at times. You can hate Imoen as much as you want as the player but.. if you actually were your character you would possibly not consider letting your sole kind-of family member die after all that had happened to the both of you ? you grew up together under Gorion, adventured through the hardships of BG1's stuff together (BG2 canon) and you'd just act all like "I don't care she can go take a hike"? I don't see anything wrong with BG2's narrative.

 

[Brayko]

Imoen is an annoying bitch.

 

[felipepepe]

Yeah, Imoen is your sister, and that's about all she is. There are swords in Baldur's Gate 2 with more personality then her.

 

[hiver]

This is what what appears to be a medieval/renaissance setting, with actual humans, with a human psychology as far as they tried to write it. With everything that comes with it.
I don't think having an almost equal amount of females in something that's akin to renaissance fighters is anything but cretinous. Cretinous as in the immature fantasy of a 14 year old. A cretin.
As of the military, dipshit, like modern military has anything to do with a legion of knights...

Spoiler

on a side note, even now there are very few females frontline infantry...

Military is always military, modern or otherwise. Tools are different but the rest is always the same.
You also didnt answer the question about how great of a milatry person you are, you cheap cowardly turd, while criticizing other people to make yourself feel better. Which is a cretinous fantasy of a really stupid, cowardly 14 year old.

As for PoE, its a fantasy game in a fantasy setting so there is no reason to think there would be more or less of anything in its military units - based on our reality - which you did - while our reality is that you never seen and never will be in any kind of military, while many women are right now. On front lines too.
So shut the fuck up.

Whatever your opinion on Irenicus, he serves the game a lot better. He is a clear target, that serves as motivation for players, moves the plot forward, debates with the player and actually comes to respect you as the game progresses.

While this is true, I don't necessarily see NOT having a clear enemy or exact understanding of what is going on behind the scenes as a bad thing.
(Regardless of whether certain aspects of it could be done better in PoE or not)

Its not, but that depends on what you are trying to do, what story you want to show and present.
Its a matter of choosing a correct tool for specific work.

Whatever you do with it - it needs to be quality work, of course. Simply choosing one tool or another doesnt matter much if you do it badly.

Yeah, Imoen is your sister, and that's about all she is. There are swords in Baldur's Gate 2 with more personality then her.

Its not just the lack of personality but that you have no interaction with her to establish her as your sister. The game just tells you she is your sister and that you should care for her. Thats why it doesnt work.

- and thats why there is a romance mod for Imoen too.

 

[tyrannosaurus rex]

"Military is always military, modern or otherwise"

1. No. No it isn't idiot.

2. Fuck you too.

3. It's a fantasy involving humans. They didn't try to make a new sort of human neither on the graphics nor in the writing which are full of archetypes. Because the writer became creatively bankrupt after finishing the setting.

4. Slurp my shit

 

[Commissar Draco]

hiver

This is what what appears to be a medieval/renaissance setting, with actual humans, with a human psychology as far as they tried to write it. With everything that comes with it.

I don't think having an almost equal amount of females in something that's akin to renaissance fighters is anything but cretinous. Cretinous as in the immature fantasy of a 14 year old. A cretin.

As of the military, dipshit, like modern military has anything to do with a legion of knights...

Spoiler

on a side note, even now there are very few females frontline infantry...

This is game done by group of California based L1berals and SJWs right? What you expected realism Komrade? Even their glorious revolution is skewed by modern :kwafuckyeah: in real one only 1/3 of colonists supported ''Patriots'' and as result the native savages were cheated from most of their lands and/or genocided not liberated from evul slave dealing empire... Enjoy PoE as game and don't expect simulation of any historical period; its fanstasy with elves and magic after all.

 

[hiver]

"Military is always military, modern or otherwise"

1. No. No it isn't idiot.

Answering with idiotic declaratory statements is what actually makes you an ignorant cheap idiot.
Not that you are capable of understanding that.

3. It's a fantasy involving humans. They didn't try to make a new sort of human neither on the graphics nor in the writing which are full of archetypes. Because the writer became creatively bankrupt after finishing the setting.

Already answered above but you are too stupid to get it. What does fantasy involving humans even mean in that devolved brain of yours? Why would anyone need to make any kind of "new sort of human" in a fantasy?
Also, more vacuous statements doesnt achieve anything except proving every insult i throw at you to be true.

-
And also, there is no equal parity of sexes in military roles in PoE at all. Large majority of fighters in the game are men. You are just that dumb.

 

[Hamster]

I am at the beginning of the game (slowpoke, i know) and what bothered me is a sharp contrast between a gloomy and realistic storyline in Gilded Vale and what at first appears to be a generic Forgotten Realms type high magic fantasy setting. Up to this point the game went out of it's way to convince me that it's exactly like Baldur's Gate, so i naturally assumed that the style of the setting will be similiar. I am not complaining, the story is interesting enough, but i think the setting could have been introduced better. Why the fuck do i currently know more about eskimo dwarfs living at the south pole than about basics of this world, like what the attitudes towards various religions are like?

 

[Irenaeus]

You can read the cyclopedia if you are interested in the gods. Also, all religious books I found so far are brilliantly written.

 

[Rake]

I hope Ser Tim Cain is the lead designer to their next IP, or to PoE expansion. And they shouldn't had let Ziets go.
Apparently Eric Festenmaker isn't at the same league (and Sawyer is crap in that department but that was known from the start)

ftfy

Avelone > Cain
PS:T > Fallout

 

[Athelas]

While working on Planescape: Torment, Avellone was simultaneously working on Fallout 2.[23] In an interview from 2007, he says that Fallout 2 helped him rethink the possibilities of dialogue in Planescape: Torment

 

[tyrannosaurus rex]

snip

Nice verbal diarrhea, moron.

It's a funny thing indeed that when you look a the medieval era and renaissance, and just about any pre modern era there are almost no female fighters. Like ever. Then even in the modern quota infested military you argue about, females and frontline fighting doesn't rhyme.

But it's ok if the setting is about an alien race like those blue giants or the little furballs. That isn't the case, though. It's about humans, with cliche dialogues, so nothing different from all the dozens shitty fictions involving humans. So that means, whatever made males the exclusive fighters in all of history could be there. But it isn't.

At least they're wearing real armors. Not plate swimsuits. Unfortunately the intention behind that wasn't realism, on their side.

 

[Ninjerk]

I hope Ser Tim Cain is the lead designer to their next IP, or to PoE expansion. And they shouldn't had let Ziets go.
Apparently Eric Festenmaker isn't at the same league (and Sawyer is crap in that department but that was known from the start)

ftfy

Avelone > Cain
PS:T > Fallout

Don't get yourself stabbed.