Decline Thiaf Pre-Release Thread

[Lancehead]

It is a valid concern for the Thief producer (and his team) that sandbox levels can get repetitive, and that by focussing on narrative and handplacing tool applications, variety may be achieved. Of course, the obviously better solution is to have smart level designers.

 

[Gord]

“If I give you the possibility to shoot the rope arrow everywhere…. I will have to reduce our intention for the narrative”

FOR FUCK'S SAKE!This sentence ALONE tells me that they will try to put the narrative inside a level but not "find a document that tells you something about Constantine" but a cutscene which we do not want you to interrupt because we spent so much money on it.

While this developer statement is indeed a nice showcase for why we can't have nice things, it should still be noted that you couldn't shoot rope-arrows everywhere in the original games, either.

 

[Tzaero]

it should still be noted that you couldn't shoot rope-arrows everywhere in the original games, either.

You could rope arrow on any wooden surface, whereas now you can only rope arrow at locations selected by them.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

The last thing I wanted is to have gamedev companies trying to kiss players' asses. This happened.
Now this. This is just SO inappropriate, so even those Kickstarter campaigns seem in comparison.

 

[Melan]

What Roy is referring to is the amount of environmental geometry that can be rendered in the player’s field of view at once. Modern console games use very complex, tricky methods to block and obscure enough of the geometry that the frames-per-second target can be maintained. If the player is suddenly able to travel beyond the extent of those implemented blocks – if they are able to elevate themselves and observe a far greater portion of the environment than Eidos Montreal anticipated – the game would suffer frame drop.

But this is something that worked fifteen years ago.

Oh God. That's literal decline right there. Modern AAA game can't replicate something a B studio (and several amateurs) could accomplish in 1998.

Which one is dishonored which one is thief? Take a guess!

Way too easy. Dishonored has unique art direction and reasonably open levels.

 

[Morgoth]

I could play Thief on my Pentium 200Mhz you piece of French cheese.

Goddammit.

They have to ruin everything!

 

[Gord]

it should still be noted that you couldn't shoot rope-arrows everywhere in the original games, either.

You could rope arrow on any wooden surface, whereas now you can only rope arrow at locations selected by them.

Which were used rather sparingly in some levels. Restricting the number of possible access points has been in the series all along.

Ultimately it comes down to level design. Will it feel artificial and restricted, or rather natural as in the original games?

Btw. when did they ditch dry-ice arrows in favor of the original water arrows?

 

[dnf]

it should still be noted that you couldn't shoot rope-arrows everywhere in the original games, either.

You could rope arrow on any wooden surface, whereas now you can only rope arrow at locations selected by them.

I agree with you on a surface level (eh), but it should be noted that wooden surface locations is also selected by devs. The real problem lies in the press X to rope arrow design, wish gives no room for failing...

 

[Darth Roxor]

Not to mention that in Thief 2 you also get vine arrows which further increase your freedom of using the Z axis, and the fact that you can use them at all times means you can still stumble upon some interesting uses in areas where the devs didn't take them into account, aka emergent gameplay, which is completely impossible in "contextual rope arrow spots" (ygh).

 

[SCO]

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Not to mention that in Thief 2 you also get vine arrows which further increase your freedom of using the Z axis, and the fact that you can use them at all times means you can still stumble upon some interesting uses in areas where the devs didn't take them into account, aka emergent gameplay, which is completely impossible in "contextual rope arrow spots" (ygh).

Vine arrows only added the option of fastening them to metal grates instead of just wood with regular rope arrows.

 

[Darth Roxor]

"Only"

 

[DeepOcean]

I cannot wait to see the factions they are come with. They probably are going to substitute the pagans, hammerites and mechanists that are factions with very interesting conflicts like nature vs urban, chaos vs order, magic vs technology , the pagans and hammerites weren't moral paragons and very twisted in different ways, with something inane. I wonder, what are the names they are going to use for the assassins and templars this time? I can see them turning the interesting discovery of very weird factions into a boring recreation of real life politics. The Baron EXPLOITS the people, who ever thought at that? It is really revolutionary! Politics in Thief is just boring, I don't care who the Baron is or who he exploits, the fun in Thief was the weird factions with their weird rules, dogma, magic and technology not some boring baron.

I can see the plot miles away: you start working alone but for wathever reason, start working for the rebels, the game tells you that you are doing this for your own sake when all your actions only really benefit the rebels, at the end you are going to be betrayed by the rebels and etc.. There will be the mandatory exposition talk between guards where they are going to show how evil bastards they are so the player don't feel guilty in killing them. The bad guy will do cliche evil speech in the end ala Dishonored, and Thi4f will be exactly like Dishonored but with alot of fog. You don't make any sound while crouching ,rope arrows only in certain spots, small levels, stupid guards, jarring trasitions to third person and etc. Jesus! When I first played Thief, I dreamed what technology could bring in but now I just want to turn back in time.

 

[Serious_Business]

Here's Sneaky Bastards' hands-on: http://sneakybastards.net/theobserver/thief-hands-on/
Since they said Splinter Cell: Blacklist was the best stealth game at E3 this year, I highly doubt this preview is positive.

Brilliant. This preview is stone cold, but there's a feeling of nausea that is exacerbated by the PR guy's apologetic attitude. The pus just comes out by asking neutral questions and by poking at this fat, whining, dying corpse ; it just screams out in pain by being looked at. This man dances a bit to try to divert the attention, but the stench is too strong. He keeps going while he knows that the air rots around him, churning out the tired formulas, knowing full well that he's not convincing anybody, but hoping that the rest of the man-fishes are going to find him reasonable - even if they're not there to support him. And reason left this room a long time ago. He goes away his head low in shame, realising for an blinding moment everything that is wrong with his wretched existence, until his clumsy dance keeps him going to the depths of intoxicating mediocrity.

 

[Infinitron]

I cannot wait to see the factions they are come with. They probably are going to substitute the pagans, hammerites and mechanists that are factions with very interesting conflicts like nature vs urban, chaos vs order, magic vs technology , the pagans and hammerites weren't moral paragons and very twisted in different ways, with something inane. I wonder, what are the names they are going to use for the assassins and templars this time? I can see them turning the interesting discovery of very weird factions into a boring recreation of real life politics. The Baron EXPLOITS the people, who ever thought at that? It is really revolutionary! Politics in Thief is just boring, I don't care who the Baron is or who he exploits, the fun in Thief was the weird factions with their weird rules, dogma, magic and technology not some boring baron.

I can see the plot miles away: you start working alone but for wathever reason, start working for the rebels, the game tells you that you are doing this for your own sake when all your actions only really benefit the rebels, at the end you are going to be betrayed by the rebels and etc.. There will be the mandatory exposition talk between guards where they are going to show how evil bastards they are so the player don't feel guilty in killing them. The bad guy will do cliche evil speech in the end ala Dishonored, and Thi4f will be exactly like Dishonored but with alot of fog. You don't make any sound while crouching ,rope arrows only in certain spots, small levels, stupid guards, jarring trasitions to third person and etc. Jesus! When I first played Thief, I dreamed what technology could bring in but now I just want to turn back in time.

They've already revealed the factions. There's the Baron's Watch and a faction called the Graven who oppose him.

 

[Darth Slaughter]

Not to mention that in Thief 2 you also get vine arrows which further increase your freedom of using the Z axis, and the fact that you can use them at all times means you can still stumble upon some interesting uses in areas where the devs didn't take them into account, aka emergent gameplay, which is completely impossible in "contextual rope arrow spots" (ygh).

This brings another issue. Looks like this rope arrow will be unlimited, since it looks like a grapling hook like batman arkham game. Other aspect is that they're taking the aiming away from us. I bet they're even putting auto aim crosshairs in torches also. This will be like mark of the ninja in 3d. Mark of the ninja has focus, has a grappling hook , has visual representation of sounds. Funny is that all of those games (batman, mark of the ninja, splinter cell, dishonored) are rather good or fun to play, but they're not thief, so they more forgivable..

FOR FUCK'S SAKE!This sentence ALONE tells me that they will try to put the narrative inside a level but not "find a document that tells you something about Constantine" but a cutscene which we do not want you to interrupt because we spent so much money on it.

I recently played levels 5 and 6 of thief FM campaign, called Trickster Gem Mine, and it has a lot of docs around. but sometimes, the author put some notes like "...please, open the door, don't leave me here, i'm losing my air, cough, cough. AAAARGH...". It was ridiculous to think a person would write a note with his last desperate words... But even that sound more deep, efficient way of telling a fan-fiction story the forcing you to QTE. Maybe those letters were phisical manifestations of the spirits of these fellows.

 

[Manjuice Nutella]

I had a very strange dream today, where I was playing Thiaf.

It was a level similar to the E3 show, but bigger and leading to different areas of game as well. Although it was open world all of the levels were corridors. The game had a minutes-long cycle of day and night. During the day shadows disappeared, but it wasn't a problem because of "vertical movement", deaf dumb and blind AI and abusing flawed line of sight. Garrett had a face of balding, moustached drunkard wearing fancy hat with a feather, rather short and with a big, bloated belly, but despite looking like a clumsy bard it was all part of the retcon which had little in common with previous games. He was quite adept at shooting with his upgreadable bow, had a shortsword for quiet but visceral assassinations, as well as some spells - a telekinesis and a renamed "Blink" that magically enhanced his grappling hook to instantly swing to rooftops like a Spider Man. He wasn't invincible and couldn't heal (only enhance his defense), but health regen kicked in at checkpoints placed at "vertical" objects. You could level up, gain perks like stronger blows, faster sprint or longer chain combos, as well as manage your equipment there, but all defeated enemies respawned. During those checkpoints you could pick a helpful "pet"/"minion" you would summon for a short period of time with Focus, but some gave passive, constant boosts. Among them a coffin with upper half of talking vampire's corpse that could wreak havoc among the guards with fire spells and increased xp gained; a floating skeleton that made some unfunny jokes but gave additional 20 gold coins for every item looted/pickpocketed; and a little kitten, which gave no bonuses, but you could control it to distract guards or assassinate them by shredding their throats, shown through a slow-motion killcam.

It was a very Freudian dream.

 

[Gord]

Among them a coffin with upper half of talking vampire's corpse that could wreak havoc among the guards with fire spells and increased xp gained; a floating skeleton that made some unfunny jokes but gave additional 20 gold coins for every item looted/pickpocketed; and a little kitten, which gave no bonuses, but you could control it to distract guards or assassinate them by shredding their throats, shown through a slow-motion killcam.

Don't give them any ideas...

 

[Morgoth]

http://community.eidosmontreal.com/blogs/Thief-Generations?theme=thief

Yep, it’s official! Thief is now confirmed for PS3 and Xbox 360 – in addition to PC, PS4 and Xbox One! And, as importantly, the game will ship for ALL platforms simultaneously.

So now the game will be even shittier.

 

[Name]

Game looks promising. Hope they add my favorite Machinist in addtion to the Main Villain Baron.

Love Human Revolution and Absolution by the way.
Going to play Tomb Raider.
I LOVE Square Enix.
Best company ever.

 

[Gord]

Well, you get one point for effort.

 

[SCO]

http://community.eidosmontreal.com/blogs/Thief-Generations?theme=thief

Yep, it’s official! Thief is now confirmed for PS3 and Xbox 360 – in addition to PC, PS4 and Xbox One! And, as importantly, the game will ship for ALL platforms simultaneously.

So now the game will be even shittier.

 

[DalekFlay]

"With the next-gen, with the smartphone, with the tablet, with the indie developer, it’s really, really cool because now we have a lot of different types of players. There is a type of people that like to have that kind of indicator, because… they don’t want to fight with all these mechanics. They enjoy the story, they want to progress, they want to feel that they are good, but at the same time they like to, you know, ‘let me help you a little bit’.

Funny part is that since the industry started targeting these people it has overwhelmingly lost money. Elder Scrolls/Fallout and Call of Duty being the massive exceptions everyone wants to emulate, of course. Overall though? Alienating your actual customers for fictitious ones that aren't buying your games.

It would be funny if it wasn't for all the shitty games.

 

[Skunkpew]

Imagine a level in which there is a riot raging on the streets and Garrett has to sneak his way through battling gangs, inching forward bit by bit, ducking into the shadows as the city watch march through the street arresting anyone who looks like a trouble maker. This is happening in a newly formed slum, built from the decaying ruins of a Mechanist cathedral, in which Garrett has no idea how to extract himself, for even the exit points are blocked by various thieves intent on letting no rival gangs sneak through their turf. Thus Garrett is forced to sneak his way around both the city watch and competing thieves guilds, finding an ally nowhere. He is totally alone.

Or instead a level where Garrett races through a corridor where all thought and decision is provided by QTEs, as flames and angry rioters scream at him from the sidelines, but otherwise present no real obstacle as he speeds by.

Which one of these is actually fun to play? Which is the real Thief?

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Game looks promising. Hope they add my favorite Machinist in addtion to the Main Villain Baron.

Love Human Revolution and Absolution by the way.
Going to play Tomb Raider.
I LOVE Square Enix.
Best company ever.