Information Thorvalla Kickstarter goes online

[JoKa]

I'd like to hear what Guido Henkel has to say to this thread here

Link's already been posted in the KS comments

Good to hear, wasn't sure if he was already pinged here.

 

[Brother None]

I'd like to hear what Guido Henkel has to say to this thread here

Link's already been posted in the KS comments

Good to hear, wasn't sure if he was already pinged here.

Hopefully it ends better than Bloom.

 

[Minttunator]

Guido, in case you're reading this thread - please try not to take any of this criticism personally. We're critical only because we want this project to succeed.

 

[mbpopolano24]

Guido, in case you're reading this thread - please try not to take any of this criticism personally. We're critical only because we want this project to succeed.

What a nice comment! And right to the point. That's said, being nice is not an appropriate code here. Please get out and let Cartman in....

 

[Wizfall]

No matter the amount of information he is willing to give, it will be way harder to have a clear idea of the game he wants to make.
It's the opposite of the W2 and PE kickstarter.
Without any update, I knew very well (maybe wrongly but hey !) what to expect for both : a mix of W1/fallout/JA2 for W2 and a "sequel" of BG2 for PE (with more CC and no combat skill).
If you are well known for a kind of product and that a lot of people want a a similar product it's hard to sell them a different one.
Especially since you have not done a lot of things meantime, people won't be very enthusiastic and confident.
The hero-U project have the same problem.
Maybe by making a similar product first to bring back confidence in your ability you can next ask big money for a new kind of project.

 

[Sacred_Path]

Any plans for (print) magazine coverage? How heavily do your plans rest on name recognition in Germany in particular?

 

[Charles-cgr]

Also, not meaning to be demeaning, but he should read people's comments before answering them. And I hope he PMed Matt Barton somehow about his invitation to do a Matt Chat.

 

[Hobo Elf]

Also, not meaning to be demeaning, but he should read people's comments before answering them. And I hope he PMed Matt Barton somehow about his invitation to do a Matt Chat.

Would be cool to see Guido on Mattchat. He hasn't even done any Arkania videos yet. What's up, J_C? Why so lazy?

 

[Jarpie]

I'm surprised how little they have decided already... they still haven't decided whether to go 2D or 3D. They clearly started kickstarter in too early of pre-production.

 

[PosledniKovboj]

So far he's successfully ignoring the link here. Maybe he's read the Bloom thread.

 

[Zed]

From KS comments:

When we made the final decision to go 2D or 3D, we will be able to make actual engine decisions very quickly, because we already know which ones to use in either direction. If it is going to be 2D, we will use our own in-house Voodoo framework that has been converted from OpenGL to SDL so it will be easier to build Windows/OSX and Linux versions off it. If we should decide to go 3D, Unity will most definitely be our framework of choice.

I'm just wondering when exactly they plan on making a decision. I'd love 2D.

 

[Morkar Left]

Basically I don't think the ks is too badly done. Personally the world sounds interesting enough and he confirmed already that the game will have a world travel-map and relevant skills and choices/discoveries to it. And it will be party based and have turnbased combat. Considering the RoA series I'm even going as far as to say that it interests me more than PE (without following the PE ks besides the launch day).

About the trading card aspect I think it's more an allergic reaction to dislike it at first. Thinking more about it, it could turn out great. Probably a bit like traits/feats in current p&p rpg systems. Needs more detail though.

The dragon mount idea didn't sound that interesting for me at first. Than reading further that it will be properly implemented (riding on it, function like an air force) it made me curious. The problem I have right now is that I don't know exactly how it will be properly implemented. It's a feature barely done before and therefore needs more information.

The frontcover artwork looks great. The anime style not so much. Right now I'm confused if it will go with a realistic look or more in an anime/comic style. I would prefer the first one.

Personally when Guido Henkel let out the information that he's planning a kickstarter I supposed it would take around three months before it starts. That would have been a better time in my opinion.

Really, considering rpgs and pc games in general there was and still is a real overflow on kickstarters right now. People have only so much money they CAN spent and only so much money they WANT spent.
I think currently saturation is inevitable and already happening in a bigger part. Additionally the people won't spent a fortune for all the games without even seeing one. Right now from a backers perspective you could spent thousands on relatively "normal" backer levels when you would back every game that has some potential. And all that blindly without ever playing one of the games.

How long do developers expect this will going on? It reminds me a bit of a goldrush where everybody hopes he can still quickly cash in before it runs dry instead of seeing it as a serious method of funding. They have to realize that they aren't among the "first" anymore and give their projects time to prepare, backers time to at least fill up their money again (when not waiting till they can actually play a ks game) and finally choose the right time to actually start it (but I know it can be hard working as a freelancer when you have to plan/organize other projects/contracts that earn you money).

 

[eggsackly]

Reddit submission: http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/13j0ho/new_rpg_on_kickstarter_thorvalla/

 

[almondblight]

I understand where you, Excommunicator and others are coming from, but unfortunately I fear it sets the bar too high for our particular type of product. If the KS doesn't come through, those $50K are a net loss. That is a seriously daunting gamble. Not everyone's as crazy as Cleve and... OMG, me

Well, like you said, this has gotten almost no press so far. And even if it gets press, how many people will recognize their names? There's a lot of groundwork that needs to be done to get people ready for a Kickstarter. Just putting up the video doesn't guarantee people will see it.

And even then, a lot of projects won't be able to reach one million. Dead State got 330k, The Banner Saga got 700k+, FTL 100k+, Conquistador and Eisenwald 70k+ and 80k+ respectively. That kind of money might not be enough to make a dream game, but they might not be able to make their dream game after being on hiatus for 15 years. They might want to shoot for a decent 300k game, do lots of groundwork and get the press talking, then launch the kickstarter. If they get more, great. If not, they can make a decent game and come back for more next time (and hopefully make enough upon release so that they can support themselves).

Keep in mind that you, AoD, Basilisk Games, KoTC, etc., have managed to make games without KS. Introversion just made over $400k on Prison Architect alpha funding. There are tons of books and websites out there telling entrepreneurs how to start their own business, and they don't assume that Google or whoever will come in after the first year and buy you up for $50 million. Kickstarter is a useful tool, and Thorvall does deserve to do better than games that have made much more. But a failure to get $1 million just by throwing a project up shouldn't be taken as an inability to succeed.

 

[PosledniKovboj]

Uh huh.

 

[Brother None]

From twitter...

Guido Henkel
Just wrote a breakdown of the entire game concept of #THORVALLA and I have to tell you, it feels good to have it out of my system

This raises my hopes somewhat

 

[Crooked Bee]

From twitter...

Guido Henkel
Just wrote a breakdown of the entire game concept of #THORVALLA and I have to tell you, it feels good to have it out of my system

This raises my hopes somewhat

Should've done that before launch

 

[evdk]

What? You mean you have to prepare for a kickstarter in advance instead of just slapping your name on some promises and then making everything up as you go along? Preposterous.

 

[Primordial Soup Nazi]

Well, if Cleve is to be believed, having this guy's endorsement is probably the kiss of death, no?

Also, Robert Sirotek is a clone of Drew Carey? Who knew?

 

[eric__s]

Travel Map

The game will feature a travel map that is very similar in its looks and feel to the one found in Blade of Destiny. I always loved that relief look with the jagged line crawling over it representing the traveling party, and in high resolution it will look even cooler.
Since we are traveling overland like this, Camping will also be an important part of the game, particularly to restore health and mana. Yes, the game features a mana-based magic system that will restore itself over time and with rest.
Camps also serve for additional random encounters. Not only with monsters, and bandits and such, but also with other travelers, who might then happen to share information with you - or perhaps, they’re just out to slit your throats, after all.

The travel map will contain countless events, encounters and plot points that will be unlocked during the game. Some of them driven through the story, your characters, others through certain skills, others yet by chance. If you’ve played Blade of Destiny, I think you know exactly what to expect.

Well this is what you all wanted to hear. It's been said, time to donate.

 

[zeitgeist]

Well this is what you all wanted to hear. It's been said, time to donate.

Perhaps not the kind of super-micro-management we had in Realms of Arkania, but still detailed enough to allow for plenty of customized play.

I'd rather hear "even more super-micro-management than we had in Realms of Arkania" since it is 2012 and all.

They should've started with this general overview, since it's obviously less than a day's work. And now they've announced an overview of the party building system for tomorrow. In 28 more days maybe there'll be enough info for a proper Kickstarter launch.

 

[stony3k]

You have to be reasonable - if it had even more micromanagement than RoA, only Codexers would pledge. This needs to appeal to a broader audience (not PE broad, but still broad enough to raise a million). Personally I think the update was good, hopefully this can start gathering some steam.

 

[Apexeon]

A little more ground work from the pros would be nice.
I put down $15 but that 1 million target looks a little shaky.

I have all this spare game money because I "don't buy Dungeon slosh 3, Sky your rim, and Dibolical farming 3."
My brother gifted me a copy of Border lands 2, I played it for 15 minutes before it took a nice holiday in my recycle bin.
Problem is the **** won't recycle it just clogs up the pipes and stinks like the bad FPS it really is
Steam list BL2 as a RPG what the?.

Speaking of the ground I live under it 24/7 with my maps (it is easier to cover up mistakes in the dark, just ask your partner).

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

Man that pitch video sucks ass. Guido is a good guy, but he has the charisma of a rusty nail.

Also, how many times do we have to repeat: Don't start your kickstarter video with detailing the setting you just made up during the last coffee break. "Yeah, so there's gonna be dragons! But there also gonna be tribal people, and you know, we gonna have vikings... " NOBODY cares.

Learn from Fargo. His pitch video, apart from being funny as hell, was not so much about Wasteland 2, but about a broader concept: It was a rant about the current state of the industry and a promise to challenge that industry. A promise to bring back turn-based, party-based combat, a non-linear world, gameplay instead of voice-acting and cinematic graphics, etc. etc. Whether it was real or not, you saw that the man feels passionate about this issue.
Fargo didn't have jack-shit to show about Wasteland 2 apart from some unrelated concept art. But he sold an idea. What are you selling Mister Henkel? A game about Dragons and Vikings? *Yaaaaawn*

Even Obsidian was pretty vague about the setting and instead explained the broader idea for the game, they basicly promised to bring the IE engine back and everything it stands for ("tactical RTwP" combat, beautiful prerendered backgrounds, party-based gameplay, party-banter etc").

Now in contrast, guess which other Kickstarter devs described their bullshit made-up setting in their updates (after their pitch video contained literally NO information)? Yeah right, Branda and Tom with their ultra-succesful oldschool RPG.

*learn* from past kickstarter expierences. There's so many things that the man behind REALMS OF ARKANIA could have been rambling about. Some of that stuff is even included in the text below the pitch video. How he hates the new trend that every RPG has an auto-win button, how he hates that instead of exploring a insteresting world you go from cutscene to cutscene, how we wants to challenge all of that, how he wants to bring back the beloved RoA-style travelling system, how he wants to bring back turn-based combat (does he? I can't even fucking tell from the pitch) etc. etc.
*nothing* of that is in the video. Instead I see a german nerd with a horrible accent babling on about a really fucking lame setting for six minutes. What the fuck?

I can't grasp how an industry veteran like Guido would make a mistake like this. An idea for a setting IS NOT an idea for a game. You sound like a fucking 10-year old who describes the dream game he wants to make "yeah and there's gonna be dragons, and it's going to be in the north, and there will be VIKINGS! " I'm sorry Guido, but WHAT THE FUCK?

This pitch is only slightly better than the catastrophic oldschoold RPG project, and I'm propably only saying that because I have much more sympathy for Guido than for brenda brathwaite. The pitch will fail horribly, it is already clear by now. Mister Henkel, cancel it and start afresh. Only this time, give us a real *artistic vision* instead of some bullshit about dragons and vikings mkay?

 

[Haba]

I can't grasp how an industry veteran like Guido would make a mistake like this.

People have different talents. That's why most companies need those evil suits and PR guys.

Even though I pledged, I have to agree with most of the criticism. If you are asking for million dollars, your pitch needs to be sterling quality.