Thursday is finally here.

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Wow, I can't believe it's here. Torrenting.

 

[MetalCraze]

So far AoD seems to be mediocre at best.

There are reasons for that. The game has some glaring issues.

- Ranged chars are utterly broken. It's impossible to play as a ranged char at all. Why? Because all combat takes place in extremely tight areas. So you may as well consider ranged char to be non existent in the game.
- Combat chars are broken in general. A melee char requires 4 stats to be good. STR, DEX, CON, PER. Essentially 2 ranged stats are enforced on melee because they affect stuff too. If you still don't get what the problem is
- The problem is that diplo chars require only 2 stats. INT and CHA. And that's it. It's much easier to create a diplo char than a combat char of the same efficiency. Combat char will always have stats spread thin.
- And it's impossible to create a mix of both. Because 4 stats for melee, 2 stats for diplo. The game is predisposed to a clicking-on-dialogues-all-the-time gameplay. But if I wanted to do that - I'd play some adventure game with puzzles.

I mean having a shitton of checks upon checks in dialogues is good and all but even they are hurt by the dull binary system akin to Fallout3/NV. You either have the required skill and succeed every time at the same check. Or you don't - and fail all the time. DnD and Fallout did it right with dice rolls to always add an element of uncertainty both ways.

Coupled with what's said above about stats it leads to a problem - the stats you select at the char generation will make your char suck and win at something forever with same chances. Without variety or chance of failure or success.

Writing also seems boring. Too much text that isn't interesting to read. And it supposed to be a lore text.


VD forcused too much on adding gimmicks into dialogues instead of ensuring that you can have more builds other than "super smooth talker" and "mediocre melee fighter".

 

[CappenVarra]

Fuck yeah, I'm not going out this weekend

 

[Vault Dweller]

- Ranged chars are utterly broken. It's impossible to play as a ranged char at all. Why? Because all combat takes place in extremely tight areas. So you may as well consider ranged char to be non existent in the game.

It's more than possible and not all combat takes place in tight areas.

- Combat chars are broken in general. A melee char requires 4 stats to be good. STR, DEX, CON, PER. Essentially 2 ranged stats are enforced on melee because they affect stuff too. If you still don't get what the problem is
- The problem is that diplo chars require only 2 stats. INT and CHA. And that's it. It's much easier to create a diplo char than a combat char of the same efficiency. Combat char will always have stats spread thin.
- And it's impossible to create a mix of both. Because 4 stats for melee, 2 stats for diplo. The game is predisposed to a clicking-on-dialogues-all-the-time gameplay. But if I wanted to do that - I'd play some adventure game with puzzles.

Skyway, I'm not defending the game here, but you're being an idiot. You don't need 4 stats to be good in combat (unless you suck ass). Non-combat characters need more than two stats to do well, especially loremasters. You go with 2 stats, you'll miss a lot of content and probably die. No, not because you have to fight - you don't.

Play the game for more than an hour, then bitch.

Edit:

And what the fuck are ranged stats? In a good system, there are no melee and ranged stats. There are different stats and you can mix and match them, which is what probably confused you.

STR - damage bonus, carry weight, starting skills.
DEX - AP, starting skills.
CON - HP, poison/toxic resistance
PER - to hit bonus, range modifier, starting skills.

You can invest heavily in all 4 skills creating a dumb and ugly uber warrior, or you can create more balanced characters. Some testers sacrificed CON and relied on Dodging/Blocking. Some sacrificed Perception and replaced the bonus with more skill points. Some sacrificed Strength as they could do without 1-2 points of extra damage.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Damn. Game crashed after post-character creation loading screen.

 

[circ]

Playing a loremaster, some bitch stole my money I think. Looks like the same amount of coins though so dunno. Nice checks there. Killed some Cassius guy. Apparently it was some fake C&C. Anyway, it's a beta and all, but combat reactions seem a little clumsy. Blood just appears out of thin air, NPCs and PC don't really animate all that well when getting hit.

Other than that, scenery is ok, some of the colors are a little jarring, but I'd really like some more options for character appearance. I don't want to look like a pudgy child molester. But hey.

Also, consider adding more than combat and convo skills to demo, I would have liked to test out lock picking. Unless it's actually there and every chest and so on just isn't interactive.

EDIT: yeah Volrath, that font needs to get spruced up.

 

[Volrath]

Pretty cool so far. But they need to adress bigger fonts at higher resolutions.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Just isn't interactive. You aren't testing much just clicking on objects, in my opinion, but I'm aware that not everyone will like this design. All skills, except for Alchemy, are used in the demo.

Why did you say 'fake C&C'? Just curious.

 

[MetalCraze]

It's more than possible and not all combat takes place in tight areas.

That doesn't make any difference because compared to melee char - the archer is forced to select "oh ok dudes I will leave" in many beginning quests essentially losing precious skill points.
Whereas the melee dude will just kick some ass and get more skill points. As a result ranged char is forced to have much less skill points than everyone else (those whole 2 other builds)

Skyway, I'm not defending the game here, but you're being an idiot. You don't need 4 stats to be good in combat (unless you suck ass). Non-combat characters need more than two stats to do well, especially loremasters. You go with 2 stats, you'll miss a lot of content and probably die. No, not because you have to fight - you don't.

Actually you do need all 4. Not good enough STR? Shit damage. CON? You die all the time. DEX? You dodge at a speed of a turtle. Low PER? You stop hitting well. All of it in the end means that you die die die die die.
And sometimes combat chars also get dialogue options that let them get somewhere using sometimes 2 of those 4 main stats. And I don't mean "avoid combat". More like avoid the tedium of being an errand boy f.e. So tough luck. Melee chars are boring.
With Diplo chars you need 2 stats - CHA and INT. That means you have a shitton of points to put into CON and with high INT you get a lot of skill points too which let you smooth talk through everything.

If you consider your balance to be a perfection incarnate - by all means.

 

[circ]

Well, I got him to get lost with a decently? high streetwise skill, then I got a persuasion check so I could backstab him as streetwise ultimately would have done nothing, failed not surprisingly and ended up in combat and killed him, barely. So I could have just gone ahead and initiated combat as it all led to the same result, just added some flavor text.

 

[Topher]

Dammit now I need to join that damned CDS too, probably should anyway on account of playing ME3's MP. Time to spam the channel for an invite I guess.

 

[Bruma Hobo]

Actually you do need all 4. Not good enough STR? Shit damage. CON? You die all the time. DEX? You dodge at a speed of a turtle. Low PER? You stop hitting well. All of it in the end means that you die die die die die.

It's called C&C, bitch



Downloading right now.

 

[Vault Dweller]

That doesn't make any difference because compared to melee char - the archer is forced to select "oh ok dudes I will leave" in many beginning quests essentially losing precious skill points.

Um, no, he doesn't. Skyway, we've been testing it for months. Many testers went through the demo with different weapons, including ranged. So, saying ranged is broken/impossible isn't a matter of opinion.

Actually you do need all 4. Not good enough STR? Shit damage. CON? You die all the time. DEX? You dodge at a speed of a turtle. Low PER? You stop hitting well. All of it in the end means that you die die die die die.

Can't we just accept that you are too used to popamole games and cover and as a result you're failing at basic math?

STR gives you an extra point of damage per stat point. Losing 2 points doesn't make it "shit damage", just like not maxing your fighter's STR in DnD doesn't make him useless. CON? I never go with more than 6 for combat builds. Some testers did it with 5 points. These are facts and if you want I can post some 'end demo' character screens from the testers. Same goes for Per. Dex? Dodge at a speed of a turtle? Do you even understand what Dex does or were you too eager to start bitching?

 

[Jaedar]

Played the demo and finished in an hour. Would have played for longer to try and find/solve more sidequests but while doing what I thought was a sidequest I ran into a "finish demo" dead end so that was that. May go back for another char to see what all this c&c is about.

I didn't get into any combat, so I can't comment on that. Dialogue was... well it was pretty boring tbh. Skill checks which are completely static and the ever present [this is the right option to take] makes for a dull system. Writing isn't bad, but it's not good enough to carry it either.

Also feels like there's options missing sometimes. If I'm playing a non-combat background and am asked to kill someone, why can't I hire an assassin? It seems like the most reasonable alternative. Some things (like getting in to the "mayors" office) seem to have lots of paths though.

Character creation is quite detailed, but again it doesn't feel like you gain much when you increase the skills. Since it's all handled behind the screen, there's no feeling that 50 lore is any better than 40 lore. As such, it doesn't really feel fun or rewarding to get more skill points.

Overall, feels kinda meh.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Well, I got him to get lost with a decently? high streetwise skill, then I got a persuasion check so I could backstab him as streetwise ultimately would have done nothing, failed not surprisingly and ended up in combat and killed him, barely. So I could have just gone ahead and initiated combat as it all led to the same result, just added some flavor text.

You can kill him in dialogue mode with a high Critical Strike skill. You can convince him to leave with different consequences, some are less pleasant than others. You can double-cross Feng and take Cassius to Lord Antidas, which gives you a persuasion option to get in bypassing other quests.

 

[Mortmal]

So i was amonst the firsts to get my hand the demo, only one seed on the torrent when i started and like one hour later its 325 seeds already, needless to say the demo was anticipated.
First impression , the art is gorgeous and served with an excellent music. The quest are , praise heaven, original and not centered about killing rats in a basement, no they are more like what you will receive in real pen and paper game, i am not going to spoil them but they offer many choices to resolves them and that for each of the "paths".
Many of the choices are relevant ,, the story and character motives are coherent and believable. More important the writing is mature and directed to a crowd of adult, its a gritty post apolyptic world, no error there.
I enjoyed truly the path of assassin , no the ranged combat isnt broken, you deal considerably more damage with steel bolts at ranged on armored characters than flurrying your dagger at close range. I appreciated dodge dont make you invincible this time, in fact i finished the last fight of the demo with my crossbow almost dead.
Truly an enjoyable rpg and combat experience, two thumbs up!

 

[MetalCraze]

Um, no, he doesn't. Skyway, we've been testing it for months. Many testers went through the demo with different weapons, including ranged. So, saying ranged is broken/impossible isn't a matter of opinion.

I want these testers to explain to me how they've managed to go through close combat, especially inside tight alleys and buildings (which isn't rare) with a bow. I'm genuinely interested.

Can't we just accept that you are too used to popamole games and cover and as a result you're failing at basic math?

If Fallout/RoA/DnD cRPGs are cover popamole then you are right. Somehow I don't have problems with

STR gives you an extra point of damage per stat point. Losing 2 points doesn't make it "shit damage", just like not maxing your fighter's STR in DnD doesn't make him useless. CON? I never go with more than 6 for combat builds. Some testers did it with 5 points. These are facts and if you want I can post some 'end demo' character screens from the testers. Same goes for Per. Dex? Dodge at a speed of a turtle? Do you even understand what Dex does or were you too eager to start bitching?

When you deal less damage you take more damage. It's a simple combat math.
I can go through game with 4 CON too after 20 reloads bro. But I will miss a shitton of stuff if I will dump other combat stats. Don't you get the point?

INT/CHA build gets much more candy than a fighter.
Same shit as ranged chars being forced to select "I'll leave" compared to fighter.

Here. I spelled it out for you so you can get it.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

As a melee combat char I would go with 5 STR, 8 DEX, 5 CON, 4 CHA, 7 PER and 10 INT. Proven to be badass.

Combat is hard. I said it in the preview and I meant it. Cry me a river.

 

[hiver]

First quick impressions... setting the demo at 1280x786 works fine for me.
The main menu, text describing the world beckground and options screen looks great.
Opening music is actually very, very good. Fantastic. Very atmospheric and fitting.

The character creation screen is great.
As is the new hud.
Superb.

The first opening vignette is done very nicely. The description of what you find in that room sets the tone nicely and lets the player know there is no fucking around here.
Stepping out in the morning was great. The graphics and the town itself look very atmospheric. Nice. Fitting. Everything is clicking together.

One thing though, very small. It would be good to have the name of the city on the map itself - and position of the player on it if its possible at all.
Being able to freely rotate the camera makes navigation without using the map quite disorienting at first.

Going for drifter btw, and diving right in!
Damn its hard to choose the background and select one build over another... have to try them all!

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Don't worry too much about Skyway VD, there's a recent thread of his where he tried to play ToEE and cried about it being too hard after skipping Hommlet completely and fighting Lareth at lvl 2. He simply cannot into games with challenging combat.

 

[Mortmal]

Wat the fuck ? ranged characters forced to choose the i leave option?? I just expained i finsihed the demo using crossbow and fighting my way with a very non diplomatic character, in fact i put diplomacy at the bottom.Makes sense a guy who talk his way through will have less trouble , its realstic , you dont solve everything by violence.You aim your shot at head with crossbow and high critical rate and you have a vey good chance to take down your opponent quickly, you noticed you can right click on weapon and choose options like aimed shot and knock down ?

 

[Konjad]

I've uploaded the beta to mediafire, in case other links are dead again. I had to split it in 2 parts with 7zip, so you have to unpack it.

http://www.mediafire.com/?7ed55c61uarfhws
http://www.mediafire.com/?q7z8bu1i5743d78

 

[Vault Dweller]

When you deal less damage you take more damage. It's a simple combat math.

Jesus, Skyway. DPS much?

There are more ways to do more damage than the STR bonus. There are ways to take less damage. It's not a game where the character with more DPS and HP wins by default.

Same shit as ranged chars being forced to select "I'll leave" compared to fighter.

Keep saying it, Skyway. After seven times it becomes true.

 

[Mortmal]

While you are here VD does the"magic" trinket the lore master gives you has hidden stats, ive not noticed the change on my character sheet ? or It will requires further discovery later in the game to activate it ? or is that just that hes really a charlatan like gaius said he was ?

 

[sgc_meltdown]

UI concerns:
Game font really, really needs a size setting. Not exactly comfortable reading at 1680x1050. Currently I have to go 1280x800 if fullscreen
Not as necessary, but a font CHOICE setting would be right up there. No offense if the default font was custom made or something.

Right click on equipped weapon should show AP costs next to each maneuver

Super vga driver detected thing is somewhat obtrusive and unnecessary feedback

Help screen should have a table of contents, back button, etc.

You might possibly also have the aforementioned help screen to NOT be the thing that pops up when you hit F1 and have something like the old fallout help screen instead, telling you immediately what everything does on the immediate interface plus hotkeys and stuff like 'double left click to run'. Or what that stuff on the help thing along with the other contents.

Character descriptions during dialog might benefit being indented or seperated in some way, and even perhaps come up as a hovertip when you mouse over the portrait

Cosmetic people that I can't talk to whatsoever make me very sad, damn moodfags. Plus you really have to mouse over to see if the cursor lights up and you now know it's an npc.

On the same note I went to the second floor off the inn, moused over everything and found out nothing was interactive, not even the chests! Come on Mr Weller, this is decades of tradition you're bucking here! No seriously why can't I touch those damn chests

Lightup cursor needs to tell you what you're going to do somehow, either via icon change or just having the action come up next to it

Where's my look at stuff with cursor thing? I thought there would be one. I want to get descriptions, gimme.

Switching screens and locations during character vignette a little jarring. A short message saying your interscreen action like 'You travel to wherever'would be good, flow smoothing narrative padding.


Bug:
ran across loading screen message: "C:\Aod\Aod.exe", probably not meant to be in there


General thoughts:
Wonderful variety of skills. They all look cool, so much love. I will be angry if any of them are the outdoorsmen or first aid of AoD.

I wish this was 2D.

AWWW YEAH FAST TRAVEL IN TOWN NEXTGEN AS SHIT I like it actually.

Music gets samey faster than I expected. It's the wordless vocals I think.

I'm undecided about the camera suddenly changing a shot when you enter a place and the like. I know it's an introduction shot but there was nothing wrong with just having the description pop up on the good old message box, y'know?

Dialog is a little stiff and businesslike but quite functional.

I'm cool with my assassin's first combat encounter. Flurry worked nice but then turned into 0 damage crap. Makes sense, so I try aimed head strikes. Doesn't really do what I want, which is MASSIVE DAMAGE, so I go power attacks. That works. I was really going for precise face high damage armor bypass stabbing there with the aimed head strikes though, so is the knockout bonus thing(and disarm, etc) really a flat modifer across all weapons?

I dig the combat skill synergies.

edit: hotkey remapping in options screen would be a nice bonus, but a small niggle considering that I is inventory and J is journal, as expected etc

 

[MetalCraze]

Don't worry too much about Skyway VD, there's a recent thread of his where he tried to play ToEE and cried about it being too hard after skipping Hommlet completely and fighting Lareth at lvl 2. He simply cannot into games with challenging combat.

Shit design does not equal challenging combat.

Especially considering that once you get fireballs ToEE becomes piss easy because throwing 20 enemies at you doesn't work anymore. What challenging combat?
Save for "ololo ambushed" retarded design which AoD shares with ToEE too.

There are more ways to do more damage than the STR bonus. There are ways to take less damage. It's not a game where the character with more DPS and HP wins by default.

Actually yes it is.

Otherwise you wouldn't be weaseling out of "ranged chars suck" argument.

Here's an example of your utterly retarded design VD.

At the beginning of the game a chick and some redneck try to rob you but you cunningly sense this plot and force her to lead you to her house to get the money.

Now what happens in AoD?
You suddenly teleport inside that house being surrounded by 3 dudes.

Now what happens in a design that isn't shit?
You follow her to her house on your own without retarded teleports AoD is choke full of, telling that dude to GTFO. And you have freedom of positioning yourself for whatever ambush is there. Not ololo ambushed.