Company News Tim Cain joins MCA over at Obsidian Entertainment

[Lexx]

Nothing can possibly be worse than Brayko and Sis.
The sole fact that a russian mob leader dresses and acts like a whining homosexual is beyond ridiculous. IRL in Mother Russia these people get fucked in the ass in jail by the rest of criminal comrades, not lead.

And Sis - how can she even lead when she is mute? And underage? Would you trust a terrorist cell to a little girl who can't talk? WTF Chris?

Arguing about realism in AP, huh?

 

[MetalCraze]

AP has a real world as its setting. So it's arguing about writing making sense within the setting.

I mean would it make much sense if you offloaded ancient roman warriors into a futuristic post-apocalyptic desert? Nobody would be stupid enough to write a town worshipping a nuclear bomb either, right?

 

[Lexx]

It can make sense under certain situations.

 

[ChristofferC]

I feel an urge to do this too...

Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords - good
Neverwinter Nights 2 - shit
Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer - didn't play
Neverwinter Nights 2: Storm of Zehir - didn't play
Alpha Protocol (2010) - shit
Fallout: New Vegas (2010) - great
Dungeon Siege III (2011) - decent

 

[Admiral jimbob]

He also wrote a promotional doc which read like a retarded 12 yo wrote it - much like AP. So it kinda contradicts those "interviews".
He also did Fallout 2 - again juvenile writing. But in PS:T he suddenly became a supercool writer?

he wrote this bit wot i don't like therefore all the other writers must be LYING to DECEIVE me when they say he wrote the bits wot i like

 

[ironyuri]

AP has a real world as its setting. So it's arguing about writing making sense within the setting.

I mean would it make much sense if you offloaded ancient roman warriors into a futuristic post-apocalyptic desert? Nobody would be stupid enough to write a town worshipping a nuclear bomb either, right?

News at 11, skyway cannot into fiction.


So, here are some examples for you, fagway:

James Bond.

Pussy Galore? More realistic character than Sis? y/n
Octopussy? More realistic character than Sis? y/n
Oddjob? More realistic than Brayko? y/n
SPECTRE? More realistic organisation than anything in AP? y/n
Blowfeld? More realistic character than anyone in AP? y/n


Now let's try post-apocalyptic:

A Boy and His Dog:

A telepathic ultra intelligent dog that can communicate only with Don Johnson? More realistic than Caesar's legion? y/n
A cult of underground happy valley 1950s recreationists all wearing make-up? More realistic to a post-apoc setting than anything Obsidian or Interplay ever did? y/n


You see, faggotway, fiction can have a realistic setting, but introduce elements of the surreal or extrapolations from the real to the future-real. Apparently you haven't dealt with any fiction post, I dunno.... 1450? Maybe in Ukraine you're still reading what the Orthodox church tells you, like a faggot. Because obviously you haven't even dealt with the basic elements of the fantastic in the real, like Don Quixote, or any 20th Century example.

Stick to ARMA, obviously your fucking aspie brain cannot handle the vaguest hint of illusion.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Re: Tim Cain joins Obsidian Entertainment

But motherfucker the violins are gonna stay. Part of the atmosphere of Arcanum is that the game also acts as a violin symphony as you go through various moods and setpieces. What I say it needs is moar tracks to the soundtrack, and a little more symphonic orchestra to back up the violins.

Nononononono. The string quartet is what sets Arcanum apart. Its soundtrack is great because it avoids the symphonic orchestra, which is the resort of every talentless hack who can't think of any other way to add epic! music to the game.

I think we have a misunderstanding here. EPIC! music generally doesn't involve a complete symphonic orchestra, but rather just timpanis, minor cello and an ominous choir. What I'm talking about it putting in actual Classical and Romantic music.

 

[SharkClub]

I don't know why people even bother trying to talk sense into Skyway.

 

[Sacculina]

I hate to say it again, but Chris did the major work on the game. I would estimate that although he had seven designers on his team, he did about 50% of the work on the project. Keep in mind that he did all this while he was working on Fallout 2 as well. The man is truly prolific.

Mr Skyway, in your opinion, is 50% of Planescape: Torment shit?

 

[Davaris]

Nobody would be stupid enough to write a town worshipping a nuclear bomb either, right?

Except that they didn't write it. They copied it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beneath_th ... f_the_Apes

Entering the remains of St. Patrick's Cathedral, he finds a population of telepathic humans who worship an ancient nuclear bomb.

 

[Sacculina]

Re: Tim Cain joins Obsidian Entertainment

I think we have a misunderstanding here. EPIC! music generally doesn't involve a complete symphonic orchestra, but rather just timpanis, minor cello and an ominous choir. What I'm talking about it putting in actual Classical and Romantic music.

Ah, I see. That would be great in any game if well-composed. I think the string quartet was what set Arcanum's soundtrack apart, but I wouldn't mind if some non-generic orchestral music were used instead. I'd probably still complain about it here though.

 

[janjetina]

As a developer. Obsidian has two big weaknesses: system design and project management. Their strong points are story, setting creation and writing (those are the things Avellone is good at). It is no coincidence that their titles of acceptable or better quality (KOTOR 2, NWN 2 MOTB and F:NV) relied on externally designed systems (whose implementation was far from good, but passable) and well developed story and setting. Their attempt at a game designed from scratch (AP) was Descent to the Undermountain, take two, i.e. a .

Tim Cain is not only a skilled system designer, but his overall design abilities surpass anyone at Obsidian. He will certainly complement their team. They still need a skilled project manager to keep them within time and budget development constraints (judging by MOTB, Kevin Saunders was good at that, unfortunately he left).

While I wouldn't get my hopes up for a real turn-based isometric RPG, I think we can expect significant design improvements to the current hybrid RPGFPS formula represented by games like Bloodlines and Fallout: New Vegas.

 

[Radisshu]

I loved Brayko so I'm not going to comment on him but whether or not you had issues with Sis, she had nothing on the ridiculously cheesy Marburg Moral Choice that Mitsoda had setup (which has Thorton inexplicably burst into tears at the end of whichever choice he picked).

That entire part is idiotic. If you fail to save the kidnapped girl when you're supposed to, the mission fails. And then she dies at the end of the mission anyway.

 

[Sannom]

The sole fact that a russian mob leader dresses and acts like a whining homosexual is beyond ridiculous. IRL in Mother Russia these people get fucked in the ass in jail by the rest of criminal comrades, not lead.

Probably not when said 'homosexual' can beat to death a man two times his size. You don't mess with Brayko, he has a God-mode and a tendency for sadism.
Also, he's apparently an extremely well researched character, an extremely recognizable archetype to anybody knowing some Russian modern culture.

And Sis - how can she even lead when she is mute? And underage? Would you trust a terrorist cell to a little girl who can't talk? WTF Chris?

You probably missed the part where Albatross is the leader of the terrorist cell and Sis is just his bodyguard?

 

[Shannow]

Nobody would be stupid enough to write a town worshipping a nuclear bomb either, right?

Except that they didn't write it. They copied it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beneath_th ... f_the_Apes

Entering the remains of St. Patrick's Cathedral, he finds a population of telepathic humans who worship an ancient nuclear bomb.

And IIRC Fallout Tactics also had something similar and The Stand...which is still no excuse. If something is shitty (and personally, looking at :patriot: I find worshipping weapons of mass destruction perfectly plausible) then copying it actually compounds the shittiness. Obsidian taking mediocre to shitty systems and not improving upon them at all (in the cases of NWN2 and NV actually making them worse) does not excuse the shittyness of those systems, as you any many others seem to think.
To make it plain: Copying a turd does not change it into a heap of gold.

If Tim helps Obsidian make halfway decent gameplay/character systems/mechanics I'll be happy to overlook their shortcomings in the setting/story department.
Oh and skyway, I find talking about somebody's (supposed) achievements that lie back over a decade pointless. Just sayin'.

 

[Shannow]

The sole fact that a russian mob leader dresses and acts like a whining homosexual is beyond ridiculous. IRL in Mother Russia these people get fucked in the ass in jail by the rest of criminal comrades, not lead.

Probably not when said 'homosexual' can beat to death a man two times his size. You don't mess with Brayko, he has a God-mode and a tendency for sadism.
Also, he's apparently an extremely well researched character, an extremely recognizable archetype to anybody knowing some Russian modern culture.

And Sis - how can she even lead when she is mute? And underage? Would you trust a terrorist cell to a little girl who can't talk? WTF Chris?

You probably missed the part where Albatross is the leader of the terrorist cell and Sis is just his bodyguard?

Your fanfiction never ceases to amaze me. Please don't let reason ever taint you, you'd only be half as entertaining.

 

[Sannom]

Your fanfiction never ceases to amaze me. Please don't let reason ever taint you, you'd only be half as entertaining.

For the record, I still find your hypocrisy ridiculous. Also, the irony of having you call something written by someone else 'fanfiction'.

 

[Jedi Exile]

Arcanum 2... Why not? It was going to be a shooter with RPG elements, just like Bioshock, and Bioshock was well received.

 

[Roguey]

The (fully voice acted) Storyboards for Mitsoda's version were uploaded by the artist on their site, which was picked up at the Obsidian forums. And no it was pretty awful.

Well looks like AP would've sucked anyway.
The problem is that Avellone did just as shitty job.

The way Mills talks about, Avellone did the world a massive favor when he performed a back alley abortion on Brian and Annie's downs baby. But he never should have let it live for so many trimesters to begin with.

Nothing can possibly be worse than Brayko and Sis.
The sole fact that a russian mob leader dresses and acts like a whining homosexual is beyond ridiculous. IRL in Mother Russia these people get fucked in the ass in jail by the rest of criminal comrades, not lead.

And Sis - how can she even lead when she is mute? And underage? Would you trust a terrorist cell to a little girl who can't talk? WTF Chris?

FYI the character designs didn't change at all. Sis and Brayko always looked like that. In fact, Sis's role was expanded because Avellone thought it was weird that a mute teenage girl was just a miniboss with no story attached to her. Here's my source right here: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showth ... t393437977

I don't remember what role Sis had in the original pre-rewrite story, but I think it was pretty minimal.

I think the reaction people have to Sis not having much of a story is sort of a problem created by false expectations. She dresses like she's a cross between Rick Perry and a Hot Topic, she's a mute, and she's really young. These are all interesting things that seem to require more explanation. But when you get down to it, she's also just a miniboss. A really interesting seeming miniboss, but a miniboss none the less. I mean, you didn't get a character arc for the burned guy in Saudi or for Championchick. But that's because the audience is generally less interested in giant muscle dudes that show up in every action movie just so that the hero can prove how tough he is by beating them up. See: Nearly every role Ron Perlman has ever played.

The only reason she has any character stuff at all is because Brian Menze knocked it out of the park when it came to her visual design. She looks so cool she's got to have something going on.

People praise Avellone but are permabutthurt about Gaider (until DA3 comes out) even though the only difference is that Avellone didn't do gay sex yet.

He wanted to do it with Gann.

Because you would have no other choice but agree? Besides Avellone there were 7 other people working on design, incl. lead Planescape designer.They get zero credit, incl. lead Planescape designer.

Agreeing with me isn't a cool thing on the 'Dex.

http://www.rpgwatch.com/show/article?articleid=55
Colin McComb: I hate to say it again, but Chris did the major work on the game. I would estimate that although he had seven designers on his team, he did about 50% of the work on the project. Keep in mind that he did all this while he was working on Fallout 2 as well. The man is truly prolific.

And it is funny how you say MCA doesn't deserve all the credit for PST, because he had other writers to help him, but you bash him alone for AP. It's not like he had other co-writers on that project.

Because Planescape is a creation of other people but AP (which is "the game we made exactly how we wanted it to make") had only 3 writers among which Avellone was lead?

When have they ever said "the game we made exactly how we wanted it to make"? In fact I remember Avellone saying the opposite, giving a long list of things he would have done differently had he been in charge from the beginning as well as mentioning that Sega started laying down a bunch of design mandates in 2008 because they had fucked up so completely and pissed away a ton of money.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

and skyway was never heard from again.

 

[Silellak]

I don't know why people even bother trying to talk sense into Skyway.

 

[Serious_Business]

Fuck these faggots.

Keep fighting the good fight. One man agaisnt everyone else. I don't know what the fuck this is about, but I'm with you my nig.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

It's high time for this once more:


I LIKED ALPHA PROTOCOL THIS MUCH

 

[LibertyRansom]

Re: Tim Cain joins Obsidian Entertainment

But motherfucker the violins are gonna stay. Part of the atmosphere of Arcanum is that the game also acts as a violin symphony as you go through various moods and setpieces. What I say it needs is moar tracks to the soundtrack, and a little more symphonic orchestra to back up the violins.

Nononononono. The string quartet is what sets Arcanum apart. Its soundtrack is great because it avoids the symphonic orchestra, which is the resort of every talentless hack who can't think of any other way to add epic! music to the game.

Less is more in this case. Arcanum had the most original music out of any game I've played. It added to the atmosphere because they only used a string quartet. Every fuckin' game uses a game damn orchestra and it's lame.

 

[jiujitsu]

Arcanum 2 with TOEE engine... I'm sure everyone at the Codex would buy a copy... Big payoff in this day and age.

 

[Asdraguuhl]

I understand that some might praise the soundtrack for being original and it does indeed give Arcanum a unique musical feel.

However, I always felt that choosing a string quartet for its soundtrack was a big design error. Arcanum is about magic vs technology and a full orchestra (perhaps in combination with some "industrial" sounds) is able to create a large variety of soundscapes, which is best suited to represent the different areas of Arcanum.