Company News Tim Cain joins MCA over at Obsidian Entertainment

[lowergame]

Why don't we interview Tim Cain? It's about time we did an interview, instead of just copypasta'ing shit from the Watch.

 

[procrastinator]

Arcanum is about magic vs technology and a full orchestra (perhaps in combination with some "industrial" sounds) is able to create a large variety of soundscapes, which is best suited to represent the different areas of Arcanum.

The first thing I was told about Arcanum was the central conflict of the game: magic versus technology. This idea was so interesting and unique that I considered carefully how to best reflect it in the music. I presented a couple of ideas to the guys at Troika, and we finally settled on a sort of musical anachronism: a score centered around the styles and textures of Renaissance, medieval, and early music, but performed by a characteristic ensemble of the Victorian era, the string quartet.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Arcanum is about magic vs technology and a full orchestra (perhaps in combination with some "industrial" sounds) is able to create a large variety of soundscapes, which is best suited to represent the different areas of Arcanum.

The first thing I was told about Arcanum was the central conflict of the game: magic versus technology. This idea was so interesting and unique that I considered carefully how to best reflect it in the music. I presented a couple of ideas to the guys at Troika, and we finally settled on a sort of musical anachronism: a score centered around the styles and textures of Renaissance, medieval, and early music, but performed by a characteristic ensemble of the Victorian era, the string quartet.

Man, don't argue with people who know better than the developers what a game was intended to be.

After all, just like Fallout, Arcanum should have been a FPS. They just didn't have the technology back then to do what they envisioned.

 

[Asdraguuhl]

Arcanum is about magic vs technology and a full orchestra (perhaps in combination with some "industrial" sounds) is able to create a large variety of soundscapes, which is best suited to represent the different areas of Arcanum.

The first thing I was told about Arcanum was the central conflict of the game: magic versus technology. This idea was so interesting and unique that I considered carefully how to best reflect it in the music. I presented a couple of ideas to the guys at Troika, and we finally settled on a sort of musical anachronism: a score centered around the styles and textures of Renaissance, medieval, and early music, but performed by a characteristic ensemble of the Victorian era, the string quartet.

Man, don't argue with people who know better than the developers what a game was intended to be.

After all, just like Fallout, Arcanum should have been a FPS. They just didn't have the technology back then to do what they envisioned.

Well, first of all, I do not claim to "know" better than the developers, but I do not have to agree with every decision they make.

In any case, I liked the quote of the composer and Googled it leading to the following link: http://www.sierrahelp.com/Music/ArcanumSoundtrack.html

I often listen to many soundtracks and enjoy reading about the composers views as it gives insight into their music. But nevertheless, I would have preferred a wider range of instruments as timbre and tone colour can add a lot to the atmosphere. Just my opinion.

 

[Cassidy]

So will perhaps Obsidian pull out a MMOP: Massively Multiplayer Online Popamole? It never tires me to see the amusing stupidity in the form of blind fanboyism and optimism. Publishers run the show, Obsidian has taken already the path of decline and the downfall of Troika only confirmed they are totally right from a business standpoint to continue catering to a quite different target audience from those who truly enjoyed games like Fallout, and trying to keep a few scant straw remnants of their old roots to mislead the more gullible and easily pleased among their old fanbase.

 

[Volourn]

Arcanum's music was awesome so fuck off to those who diss it.

 

[Turisas]

New Vegas was p. cool, fuck the haters. Shame Obsidian got jewed out of the success of its sales.

 

[Mastermind]

I understand that some might praise the soundtrack for being original and it does indeed give Arcanum a unique musical feel.

However, I always felt that choosing a string quartet for its soundtrack was a big design error. Arcanum is about magic vs technology and a full orchestra (perhaps in combination with some "industrial" sounds) is able to create a large variety of soundscapes, which is best suited to represent the different areas of Arcanum.

Oh for fuck's sake, of the countless things that are wrong with Arcanum, the music isn't one of them. In fact the music is fantastic. I doubt I'll ever finish this piece of shit, but the soundtrack is on youtube so I don't have to.

 

[Asdraguuhl]

I understand that some might praise the soundtrack for being original and it does indeed give Arcanum a unique musical feel.

However, I always felt that choosing a string quartet for its soundtrack was a big design error. Arcanum is about magic vs technology and a full orchestra (perhaps in combination with some "industrial" sounds) is able to create a large variety of soundscapes, which is best suited to represent the different areas of Arcanum.

Oh for fuck's sake, of the countless things that are wrong with Arcanum, the music isn't one of them. In fact the music is fantastic. I doubt I'll ever finish this piece of shit, but the soundtrack is on youtube so I don't have to.

Funny, you couldn't finish it and I am currently replaying it for the 3rd time. I don't want to drag this topic on for too long but my point is that the music may appeal to me on a more abstract/intellectual level but not on an atmospheric/immersive level and that is what I thought was missing when I played my two runs many years ago. At the time, I just didn't understand the developers' decision.

 

[PorkaMorka]

Re: Tim Cain joins Obsidian Entertainment

Word is, they're shooting for Arcanum 2 in a ToEE-like engine.

Always amazed me how Troika went from one of the worst combat engines in an RPG to one of the best in just a couple of years.

Prepare to have your mind blown then.

Spoiler

TOEE and Arcanum use the same engine

http://www.gamezone.com/news/gz_intervi ... s_tim_cain

Spoiler

Q: What game engine does this title use and what did it allow you to realize graphically that is instrumental to the look at feel of the game?

Tim Cain: We used a modified Arcanum engine, but we replaced the characters with 3D models, which gave us fluidity to movement and lots of armor variations in a smaller memory footprint than sprites. We also replaced the tiled background with rendered backgrounds, which are extremely detailed and look fantastic.

 

[Volourn]

Oh please, the engine was completely tORN a part to make TOEE. To claim it's the 'same' engine ISintellectually dishonest. Might as well claim TOEE uses the IE since its engine has a lot more in common with that one than Arcanum's.

FFS, BIO's latest games (sans ME) likely uses bits of the IE. FFS

 

[Jaesun]

 

[Tormented Seph]

Avellone + Cain ====> fuck you Bethesda/Bioware/Piranha/CD Projeckt/Eidos/Larian/Vogel/etc etc etc!!!

 

[GarfunkeL]

Isn't the DA engine built on top of Aurora? ME uses Unreal engine.

 

[Forest Dweller]

But nevertheless, I would have preferred a wider range of instruments as timbre and tone colour can add a lot to the atmosphere. Just my opinion.

This. The string quartet was unique and I'm not saying get rid of it, but hearing that same quartet over and over again during fifty hours of gameplay gets a bit old. In fact I believe it went a long way towards causing that feeling of monotony that I felt throughout most of the game. They could have added other instrument families, even a full orchestra, to use throughout in order to add some variety to the music while still keeping the string quartet as the primary music generator. For a modern analogy look at the soundtrack of Bioshock 2. The violin features heavily in that, having many solos (and one gorgeously haunting violin/cello duet) and just in general being the most prominent instrument in that soundtrack. But he still manages to use the entire orchestra, and he uses it well. So he gets the best of both worlds. In Arcanum it could have been no different.

Mind you, I'm not blaming the composer here, because it sounds like writing for just string quartet was a design decision passed down by Troika. I'm thinking that maybe Tim and co should have stayed out of that and just let the composer do his job. Then again, the decision could have been more practical; they might not have been able to afford a whole orchestra. Having to choose between a small number of instruments that you can record versus a large number that has to be midi...well that's not an easy choice. But they still could have added electronica stuff (i.e. Fallout, PST).

 

[Jaesun]

Had Tim stuck to his roots and love of Dark Ambient, the music of Arcanum would have been much better.

I wonders who's decision of the "classical" music was at Troika. Or if it was Sierra's demand.

 

[Shannow]

Your fanfiction never ceases to amaze me. Please don't let reason ever taint you, you'd only be half as entertaining.

For the record, I still find your hypocrisy ridiculous. Also, the irony of having you call something written by someone else 'fanfiction'.

For the record: You still don't know what "hypocrisy" actually means. And I find it ironic that you fill in blanks with your own imagination and pretend that stuff that doesn't make sense, does make sense and don't realize that that is a sort of fanfiction. But never mind, stay the way you are. It's very entertaining


And who listens to game music anyway? I usually turn it off after the first 3-5 hours and have my playlist running in the backround instead (And music was Arcanum's least problem anyway.)

 

[Wunderpurps]

a full orchestra (perhaps in combination with some "industrial" sounds) is able to create a large variety of soundscapes, which is best suited to represent the different areas of Arcanum.

How do I make that pic where the guy's face and eyes pop out and he leans back in his chair in shock?

 

[made]

But nevertheless, I would have preferred a wider range of instruments as timbre and tone colour can add a lot to the atmosphere. Just my opinion.

This. The string quartet was unique and I'm not saying get rid of it, but hearing that same quartet over and over again during fifty hours of gameplay gets a bit old. In fact I believe it went a long way towards causing that feeling of monotony that I felt throughout most of the game. They could have added other instrument families, even a full orchestra, to use throughout in order to add some variety to the music while still keeping the string quartet as the primary music generator. For a modern analogy look at the soundtrack of Bioshock 2. The violin features heavily in that, having many solos (and one gorgeously haunting violin/cello duet) and just in general being the most prominent instrument in that soundtrack. But he still manages to use the entire orchestra, and he uses it well. So he gets the best of both worlds. In Arcanum it could have been no different.

Mind you, I'm not blaming the composer here, because it sounds like writing for just string quartet was a design decision passed down by Troika. I'm thinking that maybe Tim and co should have stayed out of that and just let the composer do his job. Then again, the decision could have been more practical; they might not have been able to afford a whole orchestra. Having to choose between a small number of instruments that you can record versus a large number that has to be midi...well that's not an easy choice. But they still could have added electronica stuff (i.e. Fallout, PST).

Fuck you, and everyone who thinks like you. The soundtrack was perfect and contributed greatly to the game's unique atmosphere. Go suck some Jeremy Soule orchestral cock, faggot.

 

[Oriebam]

How many STD's/parasites do you need to have an orchestral cock? What a surprise, very cool way to insulting people

Anyway, is the fact that it's bad to include ~5 somewhat similar tracks in the soundtrack of a long-ass game really being questioned here? They even used the combat track in one of the game's few cutscenes, that one with the super sayans

 

[Asdraguuhl]

But nevertheless, I would have preferred a wider range of instruments as timbre and tone colour can add a lot to the atmosphere. Just my opinion.

This. The string quartet was unique and I'm not saying get rid of it, but hearing that same quartet over and over again during fifty hours of gameplay gets a bit old. In fact I believe it went a long way towards causing that feeling of monotony that I felt throughout most of the game. They could have added other instrument families, even a full orchestra, to use throughout in order to add some variety to the music while still keeping the string quartet as the primary music generator. For a modern analogy look at the soundtrack of Bioshock 2. The violin features heavily in that, having many solos (and one gorgeously haunting violin/cello duet) and just in general being the most prominent instrument in that soundtrack. But he still manages to use the entire orchestra, and he uses it well. So he gets the best of both worlds. In Arcanum it could have been no different.

Mind you, I'm not blaming the composer here, because it sounds like writing for just string quartet was a design decision passed down by Troika. I'm thinking that maybe Tim and co should have stayed out of that and just let the composer do his job. Then again, the decision could have been more practical; they might not have been able to afford a whole orchestra. Having to choose between a small number of instruments that you can record versus a large number that has to be midi...well that's not an easy choice. But they still could have added electronica stuff (i.e. Fallout, PST).

Fuck you, and everyone who thinks like you. The soundtrack was perfect and contributed greatly to the game's unique atmosphere. Go suck some Jeremy Soule orchestral cock, faggot.

Thank you for your constructive criticism. Although you might wish to procure an additional bit to add to your brain. You would then be able to choose out of four levels of opinions rather then just "crap" or "great".
(It was about time to be foulmouthed by a Codexian )

But seriously, you are definitely right that the soundtracks gives the game a unique atmosphere. My main problem is that it gives the ENTIRE gameworld the same atmosphere rather than giving each distinct location its own uniqueness.

 

[cremo]

Great news indeed!

 

[Coyote]

Wow, and here I thought the only way an RPGCodex news thread could get so many posts so quickly was if it was about Muslims. (Or trannies.)

I do agree that Arcanum's soundtrack could have used some more variety, even if that just meant using the string quartet for a few more tracks so that you weren't listening to the same music every time you entered combat (or visited the Black Mountain Clan or the Wheel Clan or...). For the most part, though, it was very well-done, intersected with the setting well, and added a lot of atmosphere and feeling to the game.

Anyway, this is good news. Too bad they'll probably waste his talent on Jade Empire 2 or something.

 

[Forest Dweller]

But nevertheless, I would have preferred a wider range of instruments as timbre and tone colour can add a lot to the atmosphere. Just my opinion.

This. The string quartet was unique and I'm not saying get rid of it, but hearing that same quartet over and over again during fifty hours of gameplay gets a bit old. In fact I believe it went a long way towards causing that feeling of monotony that I felt throughout most of the game. They could have added other instrument families, even a full orchestra, to use throughout in order to add some variety to the music while still keeping the string quartet as the primary music generator. For a modern analogy look at the soundtrack of Bioshock 2. The violin features heavily in that, having many solos (and one gorgeously haunting violin/cello duet) and just in general being the most prominent instrument in that soundtrack. But he still manages to use the entire orchestra, and he uses it well. So he gets the best of both worlds. In Arcanum it could have been no different.

Mind you, I'm not blaming the composer here, because it sounds like writing for just string quartet was a design decision passed down by Troika. I'm thinking that maybe Tim and co should have stayed out of that and just let the composer do his job. Then again, the decision could have been more practical; they might not have been able to afford a whole orchestra. Having to choose between a small number of instruments that you can record versus a large number that has to be midi...well that's not an easy choice. But they still could have added electronica stuff (i.e. Fallout, PST).

Fuck you, and everyone who thinks like you. The soundtrack was perfect and contributed greatly to the game's unique atmosphere. Go suck some Jeremy Soule orchestral cock, faggot.

And here we go, the first retarded zero-content Codex insult reply. What's wrong, is that the best you could think up? Now let's see if you can actually think of any way to refute any of my points. It may make your brain hurt a little, but I'm sure you can think of something.

 

[St. Toxic]

And here we go, the first retarded zero-content Codex insult reply. What's wrong, is that the best you could think up? Now let's see if you can actually think of any way to refute any of my points. It may make your brain hurt a little, but I'm sure you can think of something.

Nice fishing bro.



But your points do hurt the brain a bit.

hearing that same quartet over and over again during fifty hours of gameplay gets a bit old

They could have added other instrument families

look at the soundtrack of Bioshock 2. The violin features heavily in that ... but he still manages to use the entire orchestra

Fair enough. Mind you, if somebody out there likes string quartets and is sick to death of orchestral tracks, then they have about as big a point as you do. You just switch a few of the key words around, and you have a valid argument in the reverse.

Mind you, I'm not blaming the composer here, because it sounds like writing for just string quartet was a design decision passed down by Troika. I'm thinking that maybe Tim and co should have stayed out of that and just let the composer do his job. Then again, the decision could have been more practical; they might not have been able to afford a whole orchestra.

I would assume a mixture of both. They probably couldn't afford the lot, and string may have been an appealing design choice to some. For my part, I think it was an excellent decision, that resulted in some very memorable and iconic game music, which is more than I can say for Bioshock 2, though admittedly I never gave its soundtrack much thought.