Information Tom Hall and Brenda Brathwaite Kickstart Turn-based Oldschool CRPG

[Don Peste]

Can anybody translate the update to Simple English? Gracias amigo.

 

[DwarvenFood]

Can anybody translate the update to Simple English? Gracias amigo.

From what I gather, there are three main locations, two planets and a (artificial?) moon in between. First game will be on one planet plus the moon, and the second game will take place on the second planet. Story seems some form of Doom/Aliens kind of a thing but I did not read it properly. Big corporation extracting minerals, has a bit of Anachronoxy vibe to it. Then again, we do not know how much of focus the story will have in the game. From that update it could just as well be an adventure game (The Dig anyone) but if it's a blobber, don't know. For their sake, I hope they can make things more clear soon.

 

[General Maxson]

Man I do really want a good first person rpg in the veins of wizardry. But they really made an half assed kickstarter, and I think they won't get funded.

 

[Cleveland Mark Blakemore]

Man I do really want a good first person rpg in the veins of wizardry. But they really made an half assed kickstarter, and I think they won't get funded.

I am having trouble believing that all those people with all those resources could do no better than the pitch they put up. They could have at least done some dummy gameplay with sample artwork. A title would have been inside the sanity goalposts. Their second update makes them seem demented. It appears they talked rapidly and decided on some kind of MASS EFFECT OF THE DARK SAVANT thing which is barely beyond ambiguous.

I would not have put up anything called "Old School RPG" with no other supporting evidence of prototype or conceptual work. You just wouldn't do it. The whole thing almost seems like a parody Kickstarter.

Keep in mind that Brenda Garneau was the foremost advocate of ditching old school RPGs at Sir-Tech during her stint there as coffee girl/manual editor and you can just see how good that all worked out for them.

 

[Infinitron]

Keep in mind that Brenda Garneau was the foremost advocate of ditching old school RPGs at Sir-Tech during her stint there as coffee girl/manual editor and you can just see how good that all worked out for them.

Interesting. Can you tell us more about that?

 

[Cleveland Mark Blakemore]

Keep in mind that Brenda Garneau was the foremost advocate of ditching old school RPGs at Sir-Tech during her stint there as coffee girl/manual editor and you can just see how good that all worked out for them.

Interesting. Can you tell us more about that?

Before she became the desperate and ghoulish harridan you see in the Kickstarter video, she was foremost in advising Sir-Tech to abandon old school RPGs in favor of brilliant new avant garde stuff like her own DRUIDS:DAEMONS OF THE MIND, the ultimate poseur game which sold -10,000 copies and required Sir-Tech to purchase a backhoe to dispose of the excess in a landfill. Sir-Tech considered her as a credible and sound advisor for their future direction as a company due to her clever alphabetizing of support phone numbers on the back of the Realms of Arkania manuals.

Brenda, we hardly knew ye. Gone over to the undead before we could appreciate her untapped brilliance. A lifeless slouching crone scraping along the shadows inside the halls of Kickstarter trying to lure confused investors into the darkness. Imagine the "creator of WIZARDRY" being reduced to leeching off the life juices of impressionable young retarded popamole children. The horror of the Nosferatu. In Grimoire the woman can at least blame her blood curse on the meteor that fell to Hyperborea.

 

[Infinitron]

http://www.mobygames.com/game/druid-daemons-of-the-mind

The world of Navan has many islands, and four of them are reigned by the powerful Druid brothers: Lawson, Curak, Havnar, and Astor. They worship different deities and try to maintain the harmony of nature on their islands. But one day, Lawson mysteriously disappears. Unable to solve the mystery, the brothers seek out you, a grandson of a once powerful Druid, to search for Lawson in the entire world of Navan.

The gameplay of Druid is somewhat similar to that of Ultima VIII: Pagan. It is an action RPG with simple point-and-click interface and action-oriented combat. You can execute two different types of physical attacks (high and low) and cast a variety of spells. You don't have a party in the game.

 

[Cleveland Mark Blakemore]

She should have combined that premise with the typewriter that sends Jews to their deaths with correctly administered paperwork! Then they'd have a winner for sure! So edgy. I think she also did a game about trains that go around to different places and carry damaged cakes and pies to needy children! Keep trying, you have to hit something worthwhile in there with all this stuff! DRUIDS : TRAINS OF THE MASS EFFECT OF THE COSMIC FORGE NEMESIS SCHINDLER'S LIST.

 

[kaizoku]

Keep in mind that Brenda Garneau was the foremost advocate of ditching old school RPGs at Sir-Tech during her stint there as coffee girl/manual editor and you can just see how good that all worked out for them.

Interesting. Can you tell us more about that?

Before she became the desperate and ghoulish harridan you see in the Kickstarter video, she was foremost in advising Sir-Tech to abandon old school RPGs in favor of brilliant new avant garde stuff like her own DRUIDS:DAEMONS OF THE MIND, the ultimate poseur game which sold -10,000 copies and required Sir-Tech to purchase a backhoe to dispose of the excess in a landfill. Sir-Tech considered her as a credible and sound advisor for their future direction as a company due to her clever alphabetizing of support phone numbers on the back of the Realms of Arkania manuals.

Brenda, we hardly knew ye. Gone over to the undead before we could appreciate her untapped brilliance. A lifeless slouching crone scraping along the shadows inside the halls of Kickstarter trying to lure confused investors into the darkness. Imagine the "creator of WIZARDRY" being reduced to leeching off the life juices of impressionable young retarded popamole children. The horror of the Nosferatu. In Grimoire the woman can at least blame her blood curse on the meteor that fell to Hyperborea.

http://pc.mobygames.com/game/dos/druid-daemons-of-the-mind/credits

Original Concept          Kevin Bulmer, Robin Matthews
Story Concept, Writing    Brenda Brathwaite

http://pc.mobygames.com/game/windows/wizardry-8/credits

Game Design                  Brenda Brathwaite, Linda Currie, Alex Meduna, Charles Miles
Story                        Brenda Brathwaite
NPC Scripting & Dialogue     Brenda Brathwaite
PC Dialogue & Writing        Brenda Brathwaite, Charles Miles
Game Manual                  Brenda Brathwaite, Charles Miles

 

[Infinitron]

Tsk tsk, Cleve.

 

[Jaesun]

http://pc.mobygames.com/game/windows/wizardry-8/credits

Game Design                  Brenda Brathwaite, Linda Currie, Alex Meduna, Charles Miles
Story                        Brenda Brathwaite
NPC Scripting & Dialogue    Brenda Brathwaite
PC Dialogue & Writing        Brenda Brathwaite, Charles Miles
Game Manual                  Brenda Brathwaite, Charles Miles

I just grabbed my Wizardry 8 manual, and that is the exact same info in there.

 

[Stabwound]

As far as I can tell, Cleve isn't bullshitting. Various interviews you can find online say that she started at 15 as basically an intern at Sir-Tek, doing manual editing and the like. They eventually started giving her writing duties on that Druid game and Wizardry 8, but to say that she has been creating games for 30 years is really stretching the truth on her CV here.

It looks like the misinformation campaign is working, because virtually every news story on this kickstarter says something like "Brenda Brathwaite, creator of the Wizardry and Realms of Arkania series!" Sickening. This is barely a step above from just blatantly lying; what's stopping me from making one that says "From the creators of Wizardry, Might & Magic, Ultima, Fallout, Baldur's Gate, and the Lord of the Rings novels!"? I don't think Kickstarter even gives a shit if you lie about your credentials.

Notice how suddenly everyone on Kickstarter has been involved with classic games? Even Trent Oster of "BALDUR'S GATE ENCHANTED EDITION" calls himself a Bioware founder and original Baldur's Gate developer, when he was really a 3D modeller or some shit. Actually, even Brian Fargo name dropped some games he was just vaguely related to by being involved with the publisher and had nothing to do with the games or development themselves.

This is seriously fuck up man.

 

[Infinitron]

Actually, even Brian Fargo name dropped some games he was just vaguely related to by being involved with the publisher and had nothing to do with the games or development themselves.

Involved with the publisher? I thought he was the publisher.

 

[Stabwound]

Same thing, you know what I mean. If I invent a car that runs on oxygen and a company helps me promote and sell it, that company can't claim that they were the creators of it.

I suppose there's something to be said for publishing those kinds of games. But to say you were involved in Baldur's Gate when you were the publisher is kind of misleading. That's really besides the point though. I'm more interested in how Mrs. Bratwurst calls herself a Realms of Arkania and Wizardry developer when she really just edited the manuals.

 

[kaizoku]

As far as I can tell, Cleve isn't bullshitting. Various interviews you can find online say that she started at 15 as basically an intern at Sir-Tek, doing manual editing and the like. They eventually started giving her writing duties on that Druid game and Wizardry 8, but to say that she has been creating games for 30 years is really stretching the truth on her CV here.

It looks like the misinformation campaign is working, because virtually every news story on this kickstarter says something like "Brenda Brathwaite, creator of the Wizardry and Realms of Arkania series!" Sickening. This is barely a step above from just blatantly lying; what's stopping me from making one that says "From the creators of Wizardry, Might & Magic, Ultima, Fallout, Baldur's Gate, and the Lord of the Rings novels!"? I don't think Kickstarter even gives a shit if you lie about your credentials.

Notice how suddenly everyone on Kickstarter has been involved with classic games? Even Trent Oster of "BALDUR'S GATE ENCHANTED EDITION" calls himself a Bioware founder and original Baldur's Gate developer, when he was really a 3D modeller or some shit. Actually, even Brian Fargo name dropped some games he was just vaguely related to by being involved with the publisher and had nothing to do with the games or development themselves.

This is seriously fuck up man.

My point was Cleve saying she went all poser with the Druids game when it seems she only wrote the story for it.
I never heard of it. So I don't know what was bad about the game. If the game design or the story or everything.
Cleve was trying to paint her as the AC.
But the fact is she seems to have some credit, considering Wiz 8's worthiness as an RPG (note: I never played it; I'm taking into account the general consensus).
Maybe he's butthurt because she rejected him?


In any case, I agree with you that it is really fucking sad and a snake oil move, when trying to get credit for something where you didn't do shit but some very minor tasks, like RoK.

 

[Jarpie]

Same thing, you know what I mean. If I invent a car that runs on oxygen and a company helps me promote and sell it, that company can't claim that they were the creators of it.

I suppose there's something to be said for publishing those kinds of games. But to say you were involved in Baldur's Gate when you were the publisher is kind of misleading. That's really besides the point though. I'm more interested in how Mrs. Bratwurst calls herself a Realms of Arkania and Wizardry developer when she really just edited the manuals.

Easily, because she knows that the sheep journalists won't check anything out.

 

[General Maxson]

Bros, their bullshit won't help them anyway, because of half assed kickstarter. They will fail.

 

[kaizoku]

FIRST PERSON!!??!!11?!!

That type of shit was what started the decline with focus on immurson!
Where is my iso for strategy purposes?

What's this with black isle fanbois and their iso wankery?

I see your LARPing and raise you to this...

 

[Curious_Tongue]

the ultimate poseur game which sold -10,000 copies and required Sir-Tech to purchase a backhoe to dispose of the excess in a landfill.

Sirtek went broke purchasing shit they could rent?

 

[theSavant]

I actually want this project more to be successful than Project Eternity, despite I hesitate to pledge... The Update#2 is also underwhelming if I may say so. It's like something which was quickly pulled out of the nose.

But to be honest I don't get it how Project Eternity got so much funds either. They did the exact same shit "hey it's us, we make a game - now give us your money!" without anything substantial in their hands.

 

[Jaesun]

But to be honest I don't get it how Project Eternity got so much funds either.

4 words. Baldur's Gate and IE games.

 

[l3loodAngel]

1. Yes, business loans are different from personal loans. It is very hard to get business loans for video games (or any other type of risky business). If just getting a business loan instead of getting funding through a publisher or a venture capitalist was such a good path to take why doesn't it happen? Because banks are very reluctant to give out business loans for those types of projects because they are not as reliable as other business ventures. You seem to be of the opinion that banks would not have much of an issue giving out such loans... So I ask again. Why doesn't that happen? Has no one thought up the idea. Hey I can just go to a bank and get a loan to make this video game. Maybe I will put up my house as collateral so they know I am serious.

2. Businesses are able to get better deals on business loans because they can put concrete plans down for how they intend to use the money to make more money. When they can do that they can show the bank that the risk is reduced for that loan. Businesses also have more assets than just a house that the bank can get if they default on the loan. Getting a business loan to start a business is much harder to get(and the interest rates aren't as good) than an established business getting a loan.

3. Of course publishers don't give loans. They fund a project and the relationship between them is as someone who contracts labor and someone who provides contracted labor. Not master and slave. That is useless hyperbole. And it certainly isn't comparable to loan sharking. I'm well aware of what loan sharking is btw. Are you? The publisher is taking all of the risk in the development of a Video Game. The developer is paid whether the game sells well or not. They sometimes get bonuses if certain conditions are reached. If the game doesn't sell well the publisher is out cash. Unless the developer is throwing some of their own money into the project why would they expect any ownership of it? Whether labor is skilled or manual labor is irrelevant to the contractor relationship. Since you seem to want to take a lecturing tone you know that manual labor and skilled labor aren't mutually exclusive, right? Plumbers are skilled laborers.

4. Writers do get better deals with their publishers(they are usually able to retain IP and get royalties) but the amount of money that a book publisher has to risk is a lot less than the money it takes to make a video game. Authors are paid exclusively in royalties, usually with a modest advance. If developers were paid exclusively in royalties they would probably be able to get better deals from publishers but taking only royalties for developers would be a very bad business model for them. Very small indie developers(like one man) can sometimes swing that but most developement studios can't.

5. Video Games are very risky business. The majority of games don't make money. The majority of games with established experienced teams don't make money. One of the traps that publishers have gotten into with their business models is that the games that do make money have to be megahits to cover the losses for all the games that lose money.

6. How risky an investment is has a direct correlation to how much the investor needs to receive in return. If the return is to little the investment is not worth making since the investor will most likely just end up losing money. While it isn't an exact science, market mechanisms establish the basic exchange rates between risk and reward. It certainly isn't something that is based on personal preference. Financial Risk, basically defined, is how likely is money to be lost and how much money is likely to be lost(when compared to the initial investment). People that are very good at determining financial risks do well investing and those that aren't get broke. A good deal of economic science is based around how you can determine financial risk. I really don't comprehend how you can feel that banks and investors determine financial risk based on personal preference and whimsy.

7. I know I have mentioned this point before but I want to drive home the point again.

1. I never hear that someone even tried... There may be at least 4 possible reasons for not getting a loan.
a) Devs didn't try.
b) They tried, but didn't get one, because banks don't like gaming business.
c) They don't want to risk their personal wealth.
d) They tried, but their plan was shit.

2. That's a revolutionary idea. We borrow amount X to make a game. When we sell the get revenue of Y and after repaying the loan we will have a profit of Z . Now if you will add some things target audience, previous sales figures to the target audience and marketing plan with a budget, the company should look valid. I don't know, but it sounds pretty solid to me.

3. You are stating the obvious here again and again while trying to prove your point without any arguments. Why would they expect any ownership? Because in other lines of business you retain your ownership if you repay the amount you have borrowed. Don't go again repeating the shit that publishers don't give out loans, because banks do and that's why I would rather deal with one.

The publisher works as a bank until a certain point.

a) Person goes to the bank with his business idea and a plan for financing a project. I) Developers go to publishers with their idea of the game and convince them to finance a game.
b) Bank gives a loan. II) Developers finance a game.
c) Once you repay the loan you are free from obligations and can continue your business. III) Once you get the royalties that financed the production you are broke and have no right to the IP even if it was a hit.

If the project fails, the banks is also out of cash, right? But then if you succeed you don't get the bonus you get everything, amirite? Banks just get their interest as a compensation for the risk. What you are referring to is a simple contract job that can be done by a trained monkey, that usually goes by the name of Joe the Plumber. While in this case the developers create a franchise and only then go to the publisher to finance it. Then devs don't get a penny if their metacritic score is lower than in the contract. While the publisher can technically gain hundreds million dollars of profit! Do you see a problem here?

Plumbers... You can train a man in a month to be a plumber, trying doing that to a surgeon, M.d., programmer, architect, engineer, lawyer or a professor.

4. Why would they need a royalty? If you can sell your game, why not take all the profit?

5. Source of this bullshit. If you sustain a massive army of employees that generate no revenue, like most publishers do what can you expect?
FYI: http://investor.ea.com/results.cfm

1Q13 of Electronic Arts, our beloved company​

Revenue $ 955 million
Cost of revenue $ 205 million consists of: amortization of acquisition-related intangible costs (Tortanic and friends), content licensors (my guess is Face FX, speed tree and etc.) , independent software developers (The royalties to the devs), co-publishing and distribution affiliates (gamestop and etc.), losses determined post-launch are charged to cost of revenue and $ 73 million goes to service (my guess it's Origin).
R&D $ 290 million (payment for the game) consists of: hedging of cash flow activities (whatever is that supposed to mean), any impairments or losses determined before the launch and you know the old fashioned stuff like paying for the fucking game.

Even with all of this shit it's 52% of the whole fucking revenue. Now I can't be bothered to do an industry based analysis but here are some companies of 2007/04 to 2008/03. Remember that there was a financial meltdown in 2007 and in such years leisure products suffer the most. I have omitted Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo, because they are also hardware developers and in the beginning they were selling their consoles at loss. I have also omitted Disney, because I have why it's a game publisher. And also Midway, due to it's bankruptcy as it distorts the data.

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17mzng8j9a8smjpg/original.jpg
http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17mzng8j7sv6mjpg/original.jpg


Company Percentage of profit to revenue
EA -12.4%
Activision 11.9%
Konami 19.7%
Vivendi 13.1%
Namco 10.1%
Ubisoft 11.8%
Sega -4.2%
Take 2 -0.4%
THQ -3.4%
SQ-enix 27.6%
Capcom 22.5%
Atari -17.6%
Codemasters 10.1%
D3 2.1%
Industry average 6.5%

6. Kudos to Pearson education. You are citing the first pages without even thinking what the hell are you talking about. It is based on CAPM. There multiple problems associated with the model, that can be explained through behavioral psychology rather than through the model. Asymetric information, homogenous expectations, risk aversion as constant. These are just a few of them.

7. Start refuting my points one by one and stop repeating shit all over again in a form of an essay. I heard you the first time and it does not matter how many times you repeat the same sentence, it does nothing to prove that you are right. Although some may be fascinated by it.

 

[IronicNeurotic]

As far as I can tell, Cleve isn't bullshitting. Various interviews you can find online say that she started at 15 as basically an intern at Sir-Tek, doing manual editing and the like. They eventually started giving her writing duties on that Druid game and Wizardry 8, but to say that she has been creating games for 30 years is really stretching the truth on her CV here.

Not your point, but she also wrote on Jagged Alliance 2.

 

[theSavant]

4 words. Baldur's Gate and IE games.

That may be it. I never liked these IE games much though because I grew up with the first person view games, like Might & Magic, Wizardry, Dragon Lore, Lands of Lore and found the immersion much better than isometric ones. Obviously this taste belongs to the minority Well in that case Brenda & Tom definitely need each supporter :-|

 

[tuluse]

P:E has people who have made solid RPG in the past 15 years working on it.

They also didn't insult their potential patrons' intelligences in their pitch video.