Game News Torment Kickstarter media blitz begins: Campaign to launch on March 6th, Chris Avellone endorses

[Infinitron]

hiver http://www.rpgcodex.net/ignore.php Congratulations.

 

[hiver]

I agree with your posts all the time Tigranes.
:crocodile smile:

mbpolanski
Looking for PR shit in the Codex? Whats that? can you eat it? can you bash someones head with it? no comprende amigooo

 

[Kem0sabe]

Kem0sabe

https://torment.uservoice.com/forum...ide-much-more-upfront-info-during-kickstarter

This idea was posted by Hiver, so it should be automatically rejected.

I think you were spot on in your concerns and the non answer you received doesn´t leave me with much hope about them responding to most of what you wanted to see/read/hear from the KS.

Basically... Trust us, we are like you.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Numbers be what they may, we do plan to show a lot more during this pitch and Kickstarter, in design, story, narrative concepts, possible locations, etc etc

Sounds awesome. So far everything you say makes me more and more interested. Can't wait to see the KS.

 

[evdk]

I think you were spot on in your concerns and the non answer you received doesn´t leave me with much hope about them responding to most of what you wanted to see/read/hear from the KS.

Basically... Trust us, we are like you.

Some people obviously still have the goodwill (The Complete Book of Elves notwithstanding)

 

[hiver]

Kem0sabe

https://torment.uservoice.com/forum...ide-much-more-upfront-info-during-kickstarter

This idea was posted by Hiver, so it should be automatically rejected.

I think you were spot on in your concerns and the non answer you received doesn´t leave me with much hope about them responding to most of what you wanted to see/read/hear from the KS.

Basically... Trust us, we are like you.

There has been a new answer added there by the team.

They did say they will have more info then W2 or PE in that first reply and they have given some info today.
So... it seems the matters are not so black. Hopefully the amount of info will increase still.

its good to let them know it is needed.

 

[Vault Dweller]

But the designers are agnostic about the combat system. As long as it fulfills the required design goals...

What are the goals?

Me, I've been arguing for turn-based or phase-based. Has my personal preference. Just a random aside.

What are the counter-arguments?

If I have to guess, I'd say it's going to be RTwP. Fargo would probably want to diversify and attract people who like RT games, IE games' fans, and people who feel that Torment 2 should have the same combat as the original.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Some people obviously still have the goodwill (The Complete Book of Elves notwithstanding)

We do not deign to acknowledge the slanderous propaganda spread by the stunted humans who call themselves dwarves. The little miners have always had a rather, shall we say, biased outlook on history and the true workers of reality. They call themselves the finest creatures to grace the worlds--with bodies like that, we suppose one would have to have an active fantasy life.

For those graced with true vision, Elves comprise the finest race in all the worlds. We are that which other races aspire to be: Our longevity, our beauty, and our craftsmanship are all the stuff of legends. Certainly, each of these attributes can be recreated in some fashion by the lesser races, but theirs is an artifice of face and form and creation--never as fine as those that come naturally to us.

Our lives are long and filled with happiness, for we recognize the impermanence of all things, excepting ourselves. Indeed, we do not suffer death as do the mortals. Only through violence, accident, or disease do we die at all. Although we vanish from the ken of mortal knowledge after hundreds of years of existence in this plane, you may rest assured that we continue on elsewhere. Even those who perish on the battlefield do not truly die, but instead become part of the earth's cycle of growth and rebirth. Our spirits linger on, for we are intimately tied to the world and its core. Indeed, we are the integral part of that core.

We would now turn now to other matters, for to continue on in this vein would, no doubt, lead you to beleive that we are boasting of elven prowess. We do not boast. Anyone who has seen even the slightest fraction of elven ability knows the truth of what we say within these pages.

Yes, we are a proud race, but do we not have just cause? Are we not Elves--creatures of most wondrous might? Simply understand that we are what we are and that nothing you can do will change us--then may we become good friends. But beware: We are a complex race, and the workings of our lives will ever be a mystery to you, our dreams are foreign from yours. You will never truly understand us, no matter how you try.

Still cracks me up every time. He should have stuck with Pathfinder, a criminally underused setting in my opinion.

 

[Shadenuat]

I don't care a fuck about combat in a game which is supposed to be "in the spirit of Torment". Unless combat will play out by picking dialogue lines.

 

[Brother None]

But the designers are agnostic about the combat system. As long as it fulfills the required design goals...

What are the goals?

I'm starting to be a bit wary of terminal foot-in-mouth-itis on my end. Maybe these are good questions to fire to ksaun, tho I dunno if he can get to em right now.

 

[evdk]

Shadenuat
Good combat can only make the game better. Yes, Torment story made slogging through its mediocre combat worth it, but wouldn't it have been so much better if those combat areas were actually fun to play through? (And given that combat areas make up basically the whole last quarter of the game it would have been a lot of fun indeed)

 

[nihil]

Can't wait to do some quality money-spending again!

 

[Rake]

Brother None
Just a thought. When you say that 2D is more expensive than 3D, you mean like P:E 2D? Because you don't have to go that far. I think most backers would prefer BG2/IWD2/ShadowrunReturns level 2D than 3D.
Does that make any difference in cost? BG2 level 2D can't be that excpensive.
Shadowrun Returns and Stasis have good 2D and they don't have huge budgets.

 

[Tigranes]

BG2/IWD2 2D = P:E 2D in many ways, and certainly isn't any cheaper cost-wise.

Although, I'm prepared to be told I'm wrong, I forgot the fine details of it...

 

[Shadenuat]

Shadenuat
Good combat can only make the game better. Yes, Torment story made slogging through its mediocre combat worth it, but wouldn't it have been so much better if those combat areas were actually fun to play through? (And given that combat areas make up basically the whole last quarter of the game it would have been a lot of fun indeed)

I believe it is possible to make an RPG about "the nature of the man" without it's character trying to understand the philosophy by shooting everyone with two UZIs in slow-mo. There are adventure games (like Blade Runner, for example) which are almost RPG's with their level of C&C, depth and roleplay, but lack almost or any combat. A combatless RPG with greater focus on other aspects of RPGs? Why not.

 

[Infinitron]

BG2/IWD2 2D = P:E 2D in many ways, and certainly isn't any cheaper cost-wise.

Although, I'm prepared to be told I'm wrong, I forgot the fine details of it...

The main difference is that it was smaller and lower res.

If you want cheaper 2D, go for the tile-based Fallout look. But again, that's just as non-Tormenty as 3D.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Still, it´s worth the cost in my opinion... Torment in 3D, shit i don´t want to even...

 

[Brother None]

Brother None
Just a thought. When you say that 2D is more expensive than 3D, you mean like P:E 2D? Because you don't have to go that far. I think most backers would prefer BG2/IWD2/ShadowrunReturns level 2D than 3D.
Does that make any difference in cost? BG2 level 2D can't be that excpensive.
Shadowrun Returns ant Stasis have good 2D and they don't have huge budgets.

Yeah, there's always a lot of points inbetween, tho BG2 is indeed basically P:E style. The added cost layer is about the "hand-painting" over backgrounds, not the resolution. It's that process that leads to the unique look, not it being "2D" or "3D".

That said, the staring blind focus on 2D/3D is counter-productive from a development standpoint, like going with 2D because it's "always better" when 3D can actually do what you need it too much better. Many 2D techniques and processes would not lead to the painterly style we want for this game. I'd say as the budget goes up we can put in more tricks to enhance its painterly look until somewhere high up we might be able to get people in to handpaint over a bunch of backgrounds. I don't think doing budget 2D is much of a solution though, even if the Codex would prefer it.

 

[evdk]

Shadenuat
Good combat can only make the game better. Yes, Torment story made slogging through its mediocre combat worth it, but wouldn't it have been so much better if those combat areas were actually fun to play through? (And given that combat areas make up basically the whole last quarter of the game it would have been a lot of fun indeed)

I believe it is possible to make an RPG about "the nature of the man" without it's character trying to understand the philosophy by shooting everyone with two UZIs in slow-mo. There are adventure games (like Blade Runner, for example) which are almost RPG's with their level of C&C, depth and roleplay, but lack almost or any combat. A combatless RPG with greater focus on other aspects of RPGs? Why not.

Yes, but combatless RPG does not seem to be on the menu, so I would like to make the battles as painless as possible.

PS Blade Runner has those irritating mutant rat infested sewers.

 

[nihil]

They should have the "pre-rendered 3D with handpainted details" look as a stretch goal. I can see why it would be expensive, but it's a great look.

 

[Infinitron]

They should have the "pre-rendered 3D with handpainted details" look as a stretch goal. I can see why it would be expensive, but it's a great look.

They might do that. People will scream BETRAYAL that it isn't part of the core game design, though.

 

[Rake]

Brother None
Just a thought. When you say that 2D is more expensive than 3D, you mean like P:E 2D? Because you don't have to go that far. I think most backers would prefer BG2/IWD2/ShadowrunReturns level 2D than 3D.
Does that make any difference in cost? BG2 level 2D can't be that excpensive.
Shadowrun Returns ant Stasis have good 2D and they don't have huge budgets.

Yeah, there's always a lot of points inbetween, tho BG2 is indeed basically P:E style. The added cost layer is about the "hand-painting" over backgrounds, not the resolution. It's that process that leads to the unique look, not it being "2D" or "3D".

That said, the staring blind focus on 2D/3D is counter-productive from a development standpoint, like going with 2D because it's "always better" when 3D can actually do what you need it too much better. Many 2D techniques and processes would not lead to the painterly style we want for this game. I'd say as the budget goes up we can put in more tricks to enhance its painterly look until somewhere high up we might be able to get people in to handpaint over a bunch of backgrounds. I don't think doing budget 2D is much of a solution though, even if the Codex would prefer it.

You don't think most of IE/Torment fans outside the Codex would prefer something similar? After all it IS better looking and as publisers discovered looking good matters.Look at P:E.When they showed that picture their budget gone up half a million. As far as functionallity goes then yes, 3D gets the job done. But i think budget 2D will look better than affordable 3D.
And as far i'm conserned P:E screenshot looks better than fucking crysis 3

 

[Infinitron]

Budget 2D

 

[Excidium]

Oh God Infinitron you jut set yourself to be destroyed.

 

[evdk]

Looks fine. (The avatars are punchable but that is a different problem)