Official RPG Codex Discord Server

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
    Dismiss Notice

Game News Torment Kickstarter media blitz begins: Campaign to launch on March 6th, Chris Avellone endorses

Discussion in 'News & Content Feedback' started by Infinitron, Mar 4, 2013.

  1. Kem0sabe Arcane

    Kem0sabe
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2011
    Messages:
    11,578
    Location:
    The Bosom of the Holy Spirit
    :mob:
     
    ^ Top  
  2. Rake Arcane

    Rake
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2012
    Messages:
    2,969
    :lol: I don't think you need kickstarter for this.
    Colin, Kevin and 1 artist can make the game alone
     
    ^ Top  
  3. Western Arcane

    Western
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2007
    Messages:
    5,807
    Location:
    Australia
    Codex 2012 Codex 2014 Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    The way i'm reading the combat is that the lower the amount raised the more probable it will be turn based. Wth higher amounts of money raised alternate combat systems can be offered (such as RTwP and Phase Based). The end goals of these systems is to bring across Numenera's PnP system, in a game that will not be especially combat heavy (imo opinion original Planescape suffered not just from RTwP but also a little too much combat that was poorly designed).

    Currently it seems InXile wants to put it to a vote post kickstarter, personally I think i will be better to do this during the kickstarter, it may hurt funds but it seems more up front and will leave less people with a bitter taste in their mouths. Personally i'm relatively indiffferent and will pitch in anyway but it seems to becomming a point of contention.

    Also while I think turn/phase based systems are allways better for representing PnP games on PC, I've got no idea what Numenera's system is like and that's a factor in determining how bad/not so bad a RTwP implementation will be.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  4. CrazyLoon Prophet

    CrazyLoon
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2011
    Messages:
    715
    Location:
    Cathay
    Give me a break. This is the game I'm working on. Yes, budget 2D.

    [​IMG]
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 10
    ^ Top  
  5. nihil Augur

    nihil
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2006
    Messages:
    490
    Location:
    Sweden
    Project: Eternity
    That looks pretty awesome. What is it?
     
    ^ Top  
  6. CrazyLoon Prophet

    CrazyLoon
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2011
    Messages:
    715
    Location:
    Cathay
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  7. Rake Arcane

    Rake
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2012
    Messages:
    2,969
    :bro: what game is it?
     
    ^ Top  
  8. Kem0sabe Arcane

    Kem0sabe
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2011
    Messages:
    11,578
    Location:
    The Bosom of the Holy Spirit
    That gem of a game was actually done by one guy, doing the design and writing, genius series of games that is.
     
    ^ Top  
  9. Rake Arcane

    Rake
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2012
    Messages:
    2,969
    I know. But Colin can't do the backrounds as far as i know so i'm generous.
    3 persons.
     
    ^ Top  
  10. Surf Solar cannot into womynz

    Surf Solar
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2011
    Messages:
    8,659
    This.

    :lol: @ people (even supposed "Developers") claiming it would take a shitload of additional money to create nice looking "painted" 2d backgrounds when it's perfectly doable for cheap by many people. Trying to weasel out even more money than needed, are we?

    Infinitrons screenshot looks fine, except maybe the character portraits. Still heeps better than crappy 3d.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 6
    ^ Top  
  11. CrazyLoon Prophet

    CrazyLoon
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2011
    Messages:
    715
    Location:
    Cathay
    Right on. I mean, I'm not trying to be a butt, but these are the same guys who start a kickstarter for an obscene amount of money, and still have to resort to community 3D models for their game.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 2
    ^ Top  
  12. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    88,663
    RPG Wokedex Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    This just goes back to the whole Coles vs. Blackthorne thing. Why can't the Coles do for 400k what he's doing for 70k? Why indeed.

    CrazyLoon Do you work on this game in your spare time? Do you have an office where you work on it, that needs rent paid, or do you do it at home? Do you have employees?

    Also, how long did it take you to make?
     
    ^ Top  
  13. CrazyLoon Prophet

    CrazyLoon
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2011
    Messages:
    715
    Location:
    Cathay
    Spare time yes. But then I probably have a lot more spare time than the average person. Home and no employees.

    For that specific map location? What exactly do you mean?
     
    ^ Top  
  14. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    88,663
    RPG Wokedex Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Yeah.
     
    ^ Top  
  15. CrazyLoon Prophet

    CrazyLoon
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2011
    Messages:
    715
    Location:
    Cathay
    About a week. 1 day for drawing down the concept. 1-2 days for modeling and allocating the needed assets. 1-2 days for composing the scene. 1-2 days for post work. Some of the larger scene took almost a month to complete, while the simpler ones took less than a week. It all depends.
     
    ^ Top  
  16. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    88,663
    RPG Wokedex Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    OK. See, I'm not a conspiratorial sort. The members of the "2D Scoia'tael" like Surf Solar here think the evil companies have stolen 2D graphics away from them for no reason other than that they're nasty or stupid or something.

    Personally, I doubt that, and I'm interested in whether there's some critical workflow-related reason why larger developers can't get away with creating graphics in this way.
     
    ^ Top  
  17. hiver Guest

    hiver
    This is not just painting something in 2D. Those backgrounds need to be put into the 3D engine and made to work with all the lights and shadows and effects and any eventual changes.
    - and probably other stuff i dont know about-
    That does look nice, but it also imposes some limits.
    The camera angle must be static and it probably makes any changes to environment additionally difficult to do, since you need to make all new assets for each of such changes.
    -edit- someone like CrazyLoon or Oscar can no doubt provide more info, im just talking as a mere layman.-

    Some time ago i suggested to Kevin Saunders that maybe a hybrid approach to visuals might be worth considering.
    In my suggestion the hand painted 2D backgrounds (which are then fused into the 3D world and geometry) would be used only for specific, important places while the rest of the game would use pure 3D, the likes of W2 has shown - which btw looked pretty good to me.

    This, if its doable at all, should be much cheaper to make and could please everyone?

    RIGHT?


    well...as long as you felt you need to call me on that in this thread :
    thank you troll. proof of old the good work i have done.
    the weak, the arrogant, the screamers and the morons, conformists, internet retards, schadenfreude feces junkies and spoiled brats who demand entertainment and high brow discussions while they provide none, all self inflated egos shattered to pieces and tears.
    (+ - a few i accidentally "included", no doubt)

    seriously though... i dont give a rats ass. ill leave the codex popularity to you and your ilk.
    if such shit moved me or interested me i would kill myself.

    get this through your thin skull once and for all.
     
    ^ Top  
  18. Studio Fawn Studio Fawn Developer

    Studio Fawn
    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2012
    Messages:
    190
    If you break it up and do more of the comping in photoshop you could move a lot faster :) Like having trees rendered separately lets you just plug them into existing space and comp in shadows.

    And, best part is once you have a body of trees, you don't need to rerender them unless there is something big changed (like lighting completely different).
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  19. Studio Fawn Studio Fawn Developer

    Studio Fawn
    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2012
    Messages:
    190
    You can make 2d behave like 3d without much trouble. Just make sure when rendering the assets you produce their normal and height maps also ... then it is the same as any 2d game, but the objects can behave with real-time lighting and even intersect eachother like fully 3d.

    You lose some of the "hand touched" quality and it takes a bit more work (which is why I dropped doing that). Also the sizes of the assets you have on screen at any one time goes up (but you can manage that with just smaller maps, more zoning, or other memory asset management... such as bubbles around the character at which it begins to load objects on the map...then just don't let the character run 100 miles an hour and you have time to get those loaded by the time the character moves the screen far enough to see it).

    Yea, you have a fixed isometric viewpoint though. But, I'm not so sure rotation of the camera is such a critical aspect.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 3
    ^ Top  
  20. mindx2 Codex Roaming East Coast Reporter Patron

    mindx2
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Messages:
    3,995
    Location:
    Gazing at his slowly refilling game shelves ;-)
    Codex 2012 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire RPG Wokedex Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    This would be my guess as well. Though a phase-based approach would be nice since W2 is turn-based and P:E is RTwP.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  21. Wizfall Arbiter

    Wizfall
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2012
    Messages:
    804
    I'm a bit tired of "2D is expensive" when indie and small budget games have very nice iso 2D.
    Only wanna know 2 things about Torment : the view (and if fix/rotative camera) and if combat will be TB or RTwP.
    Because i "know" all about the rest and don't need to be reassure about it : i believe they can deliver a good story.
    That's why the supposed lack of info about W2 did not bother me, we knew it would be TB and top down or isometric from the start.
    That and successor of W1 was all the info needed IMO.
    Much less concrete design info about Torment, it's a big disappointment.
    Edit : no big problem if TB or RTwP but a shame that we don't know. Same thing with graphic because i find W2 graphics really good despite not being 2D (only prob is moving camera)
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  22. Blackthorne Infamous Quests Patron Developer

    Blackthorne
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2012
    Messages:
    922
    Location:
    Syracuse NY
    Codex 2014 Divinity: Original Sin 2
    Yeah - definitely a bit of whining about that. And he's still whining for more money. It's definitely a challenge to make a game for $63k ($57k after KS and Amazon Fees.... even less after taxes, fuck me....) but we're doing it. So are others. That game Crazy Loon is making looks awesome!!! It can be done; yeah, it's tricky, but basically it comes down to people doing things on the cheap, hoping for a return later by selling a quality product. I'm certainly not living on the high horse during all of this, I can tell you that much - and frankly, my power/heating bill this month in frozen Upstate NY is kicking my ass!!! When you're an independent developer, you're not going to get all the creature comforts other developers might. See, we weren't looking to make all our money on the Kickstarter - we were using it, literally, to "kickstart" our project, not fund a lifestyle. Maybe we're younger and hungrier and willing to sacrifice more... who knows. I don't want to cast aspersions, but I know whining and tantrums when I see it.


    Bt
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 5
    ^ Top  
  23. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    88,663
    RPG Wokedex Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Colin McComb blog update: http://colinmccomb.com/?p=182

     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  24. nihil Augur

    nihil
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2006
    Messages:
    490
    Location:
    Sweden
    Project: Eternity
    To be fair, doing a hand painting pass over each of the background renders is one additional step, which means more work. But yeah, it's probably most of all about what tools and production pipelines staff are used to. Tell an animation God at Pixar to hand-pixel an awesome low res animation and it will probably take much longer than it should.
     
    ^ Top  
  25. UnknownBro Savant

    UnknownBro
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Messages:
    373
    I would love to see a system like in VtM:R where you got XP for resolving problems, not for killing mobs.
    It would fit this interactive graphic novel game just right.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.