Game News Torment Kickstarter Update #25: Combat System Vote!

[hiver]

hiver not sure if you're trolling me or not.. but do you think PST combat was deep and tactical? We're talking combat, right? To pivot and discuss narrative or other mechanics would be irrelevant to the TB vs RTwP discussion in the context of TToN.

No im talking about the game itself. Which in my crazy logic should mean that the combat of the game should try to aim for the same.

- better lay of declaratory statements not supported by anything when talking to me. Just a fair warning.
my fuse is very short these days on stuff like that.

 

[agris]

oasis789 That's pretty faint condemnation. You'll see a lot of supporting posts in the TB vote option voicing ignorance over contextual pausing.

[...] a preponderance of voters on one side appears to more uninformed or poorly reasoned than the other. Not that every individual on one side is a fields medalist.

That's exactly my counter point, I'm seeing that ignorance on both sides.

I guess I wasn't clear at first.

hiver sure, I can buy that. Make the combat as deep as the narrative. That's a whole different discussion though, isn't it? People who supported the KS liked PST, which had fairly easy combat. I assume at least some of the people who supported TToN appreciated the less combat-oriented nature of PST. Again, I'm not against TB, I'm just trying to find honest and articulate arguments for or against it.

 

[Athelas]

- better lay of declaratory statements not supported by anything when talking to me. Just a fair warning.
my fuse is very short these days on stuff like that.

 

[Monty]

I'm just trying to find honest and articulate arguments for or against it.

There have been honest and articulate arguments, thousands of them over the years on the Codex, and a good, detailed post by Idonthavetimeforthiscrap on this very thread. I notice you didn't even bother replying to him. Or discussing whether the nature of the 'crises' and the limited number of handcrafted battles with no trashmobs favours TB over RTWP.

So it's hard to disagree with Infinitron:

troll sleeper account detected.

 

[agris]

I'm just trying to find honest and articulate arguments for or against it.

There have been honest and articulate arguments, thousands of them over the years on the Codex, and a good, detailed post by Idonthavetimeforthiscrap on this very thread. I notice you didn't even bother replying to him. Or discussing whether the nature of the 'crises' and the limited number of handcrafted battles with no trashmobs favours TB over RTWP.

So it's hard to disagree with Infinitron:

troll sleeper account detected.

I missed his post actually, so thanks for pointing it out.

edit: also, the point about Crises and the limited number of hand-crafted battles is definitely a plus for TB combat. This is all I'm trying to achieve by breaking my extreme lurker status and posting here: to hear why people prefer one system over another.

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

Called my Vault BR oldschool Fallout-loving bros, hopefully they will add a few dozen votes to TB.

 

[agris]

Thanks Captain Shrek

 

[Black]

Called my Vault BR oldschool Fallout-loving bros, hopefully they will add a few dozen votes to TB.

I thought to vote you have to pay first.

 

[Machocruz]

I love Icewind Dale combat. LOVE IT. I'm more than fine with RTwP, if it's of that quality. But the bullshit reasoning needs to stop. Or people need to exhibit they understand the terms and ideas they are putting forth. Like "immersion." So tired of this being put forth as an argument as to why something should or shouldn't be in a game. What do gamers think immersion is, and how do they think it is created? Does it depend on realism? On simulation? Do people believe immersion is an objective quality that works the same for everyone? If so, what evidence do they have to support this? Why do I feel more immersed in Alpha Centauri than I do Crysis 2? Could it have anything to do with the concentration and problem solving and enjoyment involved, to the point where hours seem like minutes? Could it be that consistent, internal logic is just as important as grafix and Hollywood voice acting, so that Morrowind is still more immersive than Skyrim because it doesn't make sense that I can only cast lowest level spells but still be ARCHMAGE OF THE FREAKING MAGE GUILD!!!, and thus make the whole thing look like a farce?

Then there is the "archaic" argument. The word has a real meaning, then there is the gamer pleb definitions, which seem to go A.) I believe in a myth of continual progress, so the idea that something older could be superior in any way upsets me/insults my ego, as if to say my I'm of an inferior generation, so anything that is not like the thing I enjoy today is archaic, B.) game mechanics that have been around longer than Xbox are archaic..which would mean all the FPS I enjoy are archaic, because Wolfenstein 3D was two decades ago, and the action games I enjoy are archaic too because action/arcade play goes back to the 70s but I'm a dumbfuck who can't see this obvious flaw in my logic.

Let's not get started about "realism." Yes, a single person acting as the mind of several is so realistic. Isometric perspective is how I see the world, of course. Magic and alternate planes of existence -Ken Burns should do a documentary about this. Turn based combat? You've gone to far, mister! What do you think this is, a game? An abstraction?

It makes me wonder why, with immersion being the end all be all of video GAMES and hinging on realism/simulation, any game uses a perspective other than FP, and any other action system besides single character real-time at all. Hmmm, maybe people are lying to themselves when they say The Last of Us was immersive. Surely that can't be. I'm supposed to be Joel, yet I can see myself from behind. The fuck? All these other Kickstarter projects should stop fooling themselves and forward their funds to Star Citizen, obviously.

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

Called my Vault BR oldschool Fallout-loving bros, hopefully they will add a few dozen votes to TB.

I thought to vote you have to pay first.

Dunno, some of them must've donated, I know lots of them donated to WL2.

 

[Black]

But Brazilians can't donate what they don't have...

 

[hiver]

hiver sure, I can buy that. Make the combat as deep as the narrative. That's a whole different discussion though, isn't it? People who supported the KS liked PST, which had fairly easy combat. I assume at least some of the people who supported TToN appreciated the less combat-oriented nature of PST. Again, I'm not against TB, I'm just trying to find honest and articulate arguments for or against it.

No, it not a whole different discussion at all. Its the very heart of the discussion.

Less combat oriented has nothing to do with how deep the combat can be. In fact TToN will be even less combat oriented since you will be able to avoid most of it.
And dont tell me about some "true"PsT fans - argument.
Im a fan of PsT, we all are - I even enjoyed its combat for what it was as a part of the whole - I think playing a fighter is a great experience and i backed the game - when my account was blocked so i had to go around asking my "friends" if i could pay for "something on the internet" with their credit card.

Its the very fact that there will be less combat in TToN - and less trash mobs but more hand crafted encounters which will be deeply integrated with the story and the themes of the game that make it necessary for combat to be as deep as the game.


Athelas
Its not about being a badass at all. Its just about me not wanting to become very, very, very unpleasant - if its not really necessary.
And dont ever compare me to that inarticulate poor Carl Sagan substitute again.

 

[Morality Games]

Can't wait for the poll about whether or not to include romanceable waifu's.

They already said "not quite no," like the original Torment.

 

[toro]

Voted TB.

 

[OSK]

WHAT THE FUCK!? WHY CAN'T I VOTE!

FUCKING VOTER SUPPRESSION!

 

[Brother None]

Turn off any blocking software (like ghostery) or try another browser.

 

[Gurkog]

Don't care.
Didn't vote.
Eating popcorn and laughing at the

Normally I prefer TB, but in a storyfag game the combat doesn't really matter as long as it isn't an annoying grind.

 

[OSK]

Turn off any blocking software (like ghostery) or try another browser.

That worked, thanks.

I had to give up my privacy to make my vote!

 

[tuluse]

Brother None can you tell us how many backers are registered for uservoice?

 

[Roguey]

I hope rtwp wins by a slim margin and inXile goes with turn-based anyway. 'Cause

a) that's what they want
b) less work for them since they already have W2 stuff as a base
c) since they don't plan to have much combat the system that'll take longer to resolve will do more to satisfy the game-length-jerks
d) they plan to include options to reduce routine actions in the turn-based system to satisfy auto-pilot jerks
e) I get to enjoy the angst from youse guise while you lose and then the angst from thems guise when inXile ignores them
f) you-know-who is already delivering the nigh-perfect real time with pause experience and whatever they deliver won't even come close so they shouldn't even try. One of these days YKW will design the turn-based game that puts all others to shame and then we'll really be cooking.

 

[PatataFamilia]

I voted RTwP. Here are my reasons:
The original Torment was about RPG-lite mechanics (no death for instance), and from my understanding Numenera is an rpg-lite setting. Turn-based-lite seemed appropriate.
Competent RPG systems are hard to design, and RTwP covers up flaws better. Again, Numenera doesn't give them much to work with on combat, so there's a good chance of a pretty rough combat system the first time around.
I find the chaos of RTwP somewhat engaging.
In their example the real-time crisis sounded like it worked better than the turn-based one. I don't think enrage timers work as well with turn-based systems.

That said, I didn't like how they're using universal rounds in a real time system. The universal round system always felt like a problem in IE games, because there are micro-waits after every action.

 

[tuluse]

e) I get to enjoy the angst from youse guise while you lose and then the angst from thems guise when inXile ignores them

We know this reason out weighs all the other reasons combined, no need to hide it near the bottom of your list.

 

[Maculo]

Voted TB. Not sure it matters at this point with RTwP having such a lead.

 

[serch]

TB for Chess-like gameplay . RTwP for Statues-like gameplay

 

[doshu]

Ok Codex, you got me on this one. As I explained a while back, I really think RTwP is best for the TToN setting and the crisis stuff (even after reading this and agreeing with most of it), but that's in the best case scenario only. I don't think inXile will be able to do it as good as it would need to be to be better than a fair TB system. Plus, TB seems to be less ressource taxing for them, so all the better for other parts of the project.

That's why I voted TB.