Game News Torment Kickstarter Update #25: Combat System Vote!

[AstroZombie]

Link plz?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=90816497&postcount=351

 

[undecaf]

edit - nevermind, the comment was deleted

 

[bussinrounds]

The problem with turn based is that it can break up the flow of the game. It is a very artificial solution, which can break the immersion.

Ugh....these immersion faggots need a good beheading.

 

[FeelTheRads]

QTE optional, plz.

 

[Haba]

What they really want is a visual novel

Don't you dare to besmirch the good name of visual novels by associating them with this filth, sir!

 

[Livonya]

The immersion thing amazes me... it is an odd argument. Especially because RTwP does involve a LOT of pause. That also breaks the immersion.

But I do kind of understand the desire to watch a video of the action.

What I have always wished for is a video replay of the action. In the modern age I should be able to watch a replay of the turn based battle that doesn't feature any delays, mouse clicks, or pauses. The game should be able to record what actions were taken, what actions took place, and replay it in a video.

I would have loved to have watched some re-plays of intense battles in ToEE or JA2, or even some of the hilarious WTF moments that would occur in Fallout and Fallout 2.

Even BG and BG2 could have used something like that. Would always be cool to watch a replay of the action without the pauses.

Anyway.... glad to see Turn Based isn't losing. I was expecting it to lose by the thousands.

 

[Brother None]

QTE optional, plz.

Maybe the best way to please everyone is implementing Quantic Dream-style QTE combat?

 

[AstroZombie]

You'd have to hire Ellen Page first.

 

[FeelTheRads]

QTE optional, plz.

Maybe the best way to please everyone is implementing Quantic Dream-style QTE combat?

The strongest move would have to be Alt+F4.

 

[AndyS]

The immersion thing amazes me... it is an odd argument. Especially because RTwP does involve a LOT of pause. That also breaks the immersion.

What breaks my immersion about real time with pause is telling my guys to do one thing and then being horrified when they interpret that as an excuse to wander off in some direction I didn't tell them to go. I never have problems with path-finding in turn-based games.

 

[deamento]

I fail to see the reason in your argument Eli. All the classic western RPG like Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment etc were all games that opened up for some tactics. I don't see how turn based combat would mean more tactics.

Now compare those games to ToEE, JA2, FFT, which were TB and allowed even more tactics. Then maybe you will see, hmm?

you forgot goldbox!

 

[undecaf]

I'm clearly not part of Crytek's wide variety. And I feel quite smug about it.

 

[Delbaeth]

true, there's not enough tentacles in TTON... there's never enough tentacles...

Sure.

Spoiler

 

[Livonya]

The immersion thing amazes me... it is an odd argument. Especially because RTwP does involve a LOT of pause. That also breaks the immersion.

What breaks my immersion about real time with pause is telling my guys to do one thing and then being horrified when they interpret that as an excuse to wander off in some direction I didn't tell them to go. I never have problems with path-finding in turn-based games.

This makes me laugh because I instantly get flashbacks of yelling at the screen as my PCs try to take a scenic tour to the destination I have sent them. A serious issue that can't be underestimated. That has happened to everyone that has ever played one of these RTwP games.

I wish I wasn't so sensitive to my hatred of the RTwP. There are just so many RPGs that I simply never finished due to my ever increasing hatred of the combat system.

 

[Bah]

Combat in the original Torment was actually pretty horrible, and by horrible I mean way too easy. I also remember enjoying combat in IWD which was RTwP, just because combat could actually be difficult. However, I still think RTwP tends to lead to cheese tactics like 'kiting' that are not as much of an issue in a turn-based combat system.

So I voted Turn-Based, and hope that even if combat is not a strong focus in the new torment, that at least combat will actually be a challenge.

 

[Mastermind]

Tags: InXile Entertainment; Torment: Tides of Numenera

Today's Torment: Tides of Numenera Kickstarter update is uncharacteristically short and simple, so I'll keep this introduction simple too. For the moment of truth is now upon us:

Over the last couple weeks, we’ve been reading all of your commentary and ideas regarding combat. Many good points and suggestions, and mostly civil discourse. Thanks to all who have engaged in the discussion so far!

And now... It is time! Only backers can place a vote. (If you haven’t already and you’d like your voice heard, please register with us to gain access to the backer-only UserVoice forum.) Feel free to also continue to submit comments and ideas to the combat discussion forum. Please remember that this vote is advisory only. Above all, please remember that our goal is to provide the best possible experience for the game, and if the final decision is not your preferred choice, we ask you trust our ability to deliver a solid game.

For more context about what this is about, please see Update 24, where we describe what Turn-Based and Real-Time with Pause might each mean for Torment. We’ll close the voting in December.
​

Go to it, Codex. It's time to stand up and be counted.

VOTE HERE​

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKc2lAYrPSo&bpctr=1385151042

 

[FeelTheRads]

QTE optional, plz.

as you wish

Ryse is Crytek's Roman gorefest where the might of the empire hacks and slashes its enemies into bloodied stumps. There's one issue though - QTEs - and how apparently you can't even fail them.

Well, you can 'fail' the QTE but the kill still happens regardless. Why? Crytek say it's because the combat system is "designed to be accessible to a wide variety" of gamers.

This is one of those "please tell me it's a joke" moments.
More proof that no matter how retarded a thing is, someone already thought of it.

 

[Machocruz]

Hey, can someone tell me what "flow" is supposed to be, in the context of a video game? Because TB combat seems to break this for some people. Is there a device or formula to measure this "flow."

 

[undecaf]

It's the pace and granularity at which things happen; to my understanding (in this language). And people mostly refer to the transition from real time regular gameplay to TB combat where everything halts. But - during combat, arguments which I've also seen - I don't understand how RTwP is supposed to have it better since the pausing is usually much more irregular than the turns and actions in TB.

 

[Grotesque]

Axiom: Planescape Torment's combat is shit.
This fact was stated even by its developers.

If you have meaningful combat with hard and complex enemies, turn based combat does justice to that.

Everyone that fails to see that have Project Eternity to fulfill their real time with pause fetish.
So please change your vote to turn based combat for me not to be a sad panda.

 

[UnknownBro]

Voted TB.

 

[Machocruz]

It's the pace and granularity at which things happen; to my understanding (in this language). And people mostly refer to the transition from real time regular gameplay to TB combat where everything halts. But - during combat, arguments which I've also seen - I don't understand how RTwP is supposed to have it better since the pausing is usually much more irregular than the turns and actions in TB.

But maybe the real time gameplay doesn't "flow" or isn't intended to "flow". Is "flow" mentioned in the design document? Is there a timer I can use to find out what the "flow" is? These are rhetorical questions, btw. This is what I meant before when I stated that people don't actually think about the terms and concepts they use. Personally I don't think the term applies to a video game such as this, where tasks constantly change without any predefined and regular tempo. You might be in dialogue for one minute, then walking to a new area for 3, then solving a puzzle for 2, talking again for 5, another puzzle 3, walking for 1 1/2, and so on.

And yeah, with either system you are waiting. Either waiting for a turn to finish or for a party member to finish or start their action in real time so you can have them perform a different action or sync their actions with a character you've been waiting to double up with.

 

[hiver]

Hey, can someone tell me what "flow" is supposed to be, in the context of a video game? Because TB combat seems to break this for some people. Is there a device or formula to measure this "flow."

Dont you know? TB breaks the flow of a RT or RTwP game. Duh.

Also, since turns are pauses you can just make a switch and play in turn based.

And PsT didnt have combat so whats the point of going Tb here, you may as well just play in RTwP to get it over with.

Going Tb only makes sense in combat heavy games and true PsT fans played it only for the story.

Not to mention enemies just standing there while you whack them and they cannot even run away or move. Because like, its not their turn.

honestly, i cant even figure out why would someone even invent such a thing, not alone play it... but its probably because in old times computers couldnt produce realism fidelity like today.

and RTwP is so much more realistic - obviously, so i can play the way i want in a much more tactical way.

 

[Severian Silk]

I prefer to cook using a microwave instead of a stove. That's why you should vote RTwP.

 

[Machocruz]

Heh. Actually, I'm going to pretend you are RPS/Kickstarter dumbfuck just so I can have more lulz at the expense of their shit logic.

Going Tb only makes sense in combat heavy games and true PsT fans played it only for the story.

Then why do we need playable combat at all if it's only to be played for the story? Basically, you're saying your a fan of poorly thought out, inefficient game design and/or developers who can't write a decent story without combat. Please vote, your high standards will be a huge boon to the game.

Not to mention enemies just standing there while you whack them and they cannot even run away or move. Because like, its not their turn.

Enemies dodge in ToEE. I've been parried in FFT. It's called 'animation,' which is independent of the combat mode. Enemies also stand there in RTwP games, otherwise the combat encounter would never end as they kite you around the room until the real you either quits, cheats, or dies in front of the screen.

honestly, i cant even figure out why would someone even invent such a thing, not alone play it... but its probably because in old times computers couldnt produce realism fidelity like today.

Yes, way back in the 70s and 80s, real time action wasn't possible. Karateka and Donkey Kong were turn based. Under the hood, of course.

and RTwP is so much more realistic

Pausing reality yourself is so much more realistic than the matrix pausing it for you.

obviously, so i can play the way i want in a much more tactical way.

Because tactical play is all about playing how you want and not doing what is required to win.