Game News Torment Kickstarter Update #26: Turn-Based Combat Wins

[tuluse]

Quit quoting long posts just to post shitty one liners people

 

[Vault Dweller]

Also,
on jewtube-

I've been playing chess since I was an infant, and the only feeling I ever felt was confusion.

Jesus fucking Christ. Kill it wit fire.

 

[Machocruz]

God, the "technical limitations" argument has to be one of the most absurd arguments put forth in the history of arguments. It's so transparently illogical, so easily refuted that if the people putting it forth weren't sub-humans, they would probably feel shame later on for even trying to pass that off as sound reasoning. I suppose Spacewar back in the motherfucking 60s had a TB system so fast it only looked like slow real-time action.

 

[Grotesque]

Frankly, all the ones that want their money back have a rightful claim.
Fargo did a trick on them because he knew if he said from the start that it wants a turn-based game, it would get less money.
So he should give their money back and cut their losses.

 

[AstroZombie]

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

tell us when the Wasteland 2 beta is going to launch.

Sometime this week. Thursday, probably.

 

[Achilles]

Don't hate on the RTwP fans guys, it's not fair. After all they did pay for our turn-based RPG, we owe them one

 

[Coboney]

Frankly, all the ones that want their money back have a rightful claim.
Fargo did a trick on them because he knew if he said from the start that it wants a turn-based game, it would get less money.
So he should give their money back and cut their losses.

Not really - the game was upfront that they hadn't decided on a combat system and that they would be bringing it to a backer vote after funding was complete. That was spelt out numerous times throughout the campaign. The fact that people can't listen doesn't change that fact. Also of note is that - I believe McComb (Might be someone else though) - stated they started with preferring RTwP and moved to TB preference with how their design was looking but were still checking for feedback. Holding to the promise they did make of checking with the backers after the project was funded.

 

[Irxy]

People who hate turn-based combat pretty much only have awful examples like Fallout, Arcanum, ToEE, and Final Fantasy as a reference. Granted it's hard to find good examples because the dumb western desire to simulate reality largely put an end to games with turn-based tactical combat in the 90s, leaving us with indies of dubious quality and the occasional euro-shovelware.

More of them should probably play Shadowrun Returns. It can serve well as Baby's First Story-Driven TBT-RPG without too much of the obnoxiousness that plagues the ones I listed.

Exacly, now that I think of it, I can't remember any good classic rpgs with a decent TB combat, only tactics. Well, ToEE combat wasn't terrible in comparison, but the game was crap overall.

Oh, and I'm personally with this guy -

Creator Stavros Tsiakalos 2 days ago
What a shame. I had so hoped that "indifferent" would win the vote and we'd get neither turn based nor real-time with pause, but indifferent combat.
The resulting announcement would have been pure gold: "Dear backers, after popular demand, combat will be indifferent. We believe this is in keeping with the spirit of PST."

 

[janjetina]

Frankly, all the ones that want their money back have a rightful claim.
Fargo did a trick on them because he knew if he said from the start that it wants a turn-based game, it would get less money.
So he should give their money back and cut their losses.

Frankly, you are a waste of carbon. If you had been able to read, you would have read the game description in the kickstarter page where they clearly stated that they were undecided on the combat system, and that turn based combat was one of the candidates. Additionally, the decision was in line with the backer vote. Illiterates and assorted retards are not a target audience of this game. Good luck trying to prove your delusional claim that the use of turn based system was planned from the start, dumbfuck.

 

[hiver]

He is just a stupid cheap troll. Nothing else to it. aint that right grotesque?

 

[Black]

Spoiler

How do I withdraw my pledge!! I loathe despise hate Turn Based combat - doesn't matter how you coat it!! Please advice how I can get a refund - I have no interest in this game anymore! Thats a complete turnaround from yesterday!!

I may wait for its release + 1 year until its price drops - but I do not want to associate myself with so much $$ for a game I probably now will NEVER play!!!

InXile - please suggest forums for refund!!

So ends my anticipation for the game. This is the last time I pledge for anything in KS - Turn based is NOT The spiritual successor for your previous games!! Had I known frm the start - I would've not pledged a penny!!!
Going to demand a refund!! This is BullS****

Seeing as how this game is straying further and further away from being a "Spiritual Successor" to PS:Torment, and now with the ditching of RTwP (the CORNERSTONE OF THE INFINITY ENGINE), could I have a refund? Because if you guys had be straight with us from the start, I wouldn't have backed the project.

One thing I've just thought of: Your justifications you've listed here for picking turn-based, they do feel like you're saying "Pffft! You were wrong to want RTwP, and here is why", especially points 1 & 3. Its as if someone said "I find turn-based slow and tedious", your response there reads almost "No it isn't, you're wrong, we know best".

Well that does it, I want a fucking refund. I hate, HATE HATE HATE, turn-based with such a passion, that I really hope my request or a refund makes some sort of impact.

What all the TB people forget is that 1. This was advertised as a spiritual successor, it is clearly not now and 2. They did not explain alot in this update, they basically just said that they think TB is best (cheapest).

I can't help but think there was a fair degree of deception in getting funding for this game before announcing the combat system. As of now they have managed to bilk money from a lot of people who will have no interest in actually playing this game when it is released. Some may see that as brilliant from a business standpoint, but I find it rather distasteful.

Wow. Haven't really followed the discussion since I voted quite a while ago. Shocked and disappointed that so many voted for such an outdated, clunky mechanic.

Disappointed that the Dev team even considered changing the mechanic for a significant part of the game from the original.

I think most games in the past could have been made RT they would have been and that games were TB because that was what was possible at the time. To me, this is analogous to electing to be make this game a 2D scroller instead of top-down isometric. Why would you? It's like watching a VHS tape on a 13" tube TV when you have a 50" LED TV with blu-ray,

I will play, of course, but I think the results of this vote really drive home how players/backers shouldn't be calling the shots for crucial game design decisions. My 2 cents.

I'm praying this story has got everything going for it, or this is just going to be a glorified Pokemon...

TB is an immersion killer...there is no argument. You may as well argue that the sun is dark, or that ice is hot. Anyone who says TB isn't immersion breaking, doesn't understand what immersion is.

You are alienating many RTwP fans who played the first game, while rewarding the RTwP haters who have probably never even played Planescape: Torment in the first place. I am sure that practically every backer of this game must at least consider RTwP to be decent, otherwise they would have never even played P:T (I am assuming that almost every backer played P:T).

Your decision doesn't seem very wise to me. Hopefully I am wrong and this decision does not eventually backfire on you, even ever so slightly. I wouldn't be surprised if many P:T fans (backers or not), who hate TB combat, write extremely negative reviews on metacritic because they feel betrayed. Revenge is known to be sweet.

Disaster. I'm not sure I'll even bother playing this now. There was an implicit assumption I made that this would be RTwP like the original Planescape/BG/Icewind. I consider this almost akin to fraud. Caveat Emptor I guess... I won't ask for my money back, because I doubt you give a damn anymore.

But, I will point out that it's an incredibly bad decision that will cost you a huge amount of PR in the long run up to release. It reminds me of when CoD: MW2 was released; just a month before launch they suddenly announced that they were going to screw over the hardcore PC fans by removing dedicated servers from the game in the name of profit. A large number of the more influential players never went back.

I despair for other inXile games now.

The worst part is that I've never completed a turn-based game, but I've completed PT 4-5 times and BG2 8-9 times. I feel like I've been taken for a ride here, my money gone and faith betrayed.

I have played TB games that I have enjoyed. I have yet to play one where I didn't feel that my immersion and the game as a whole wouldn't have been better without TB combat.

No anger here. More a resigned disappointment in gamers in general, and that the game isn't going to be a spiritual successor to PST.

I have my fingers crossed and I am hopeful that this game will still be very enjoyable. I say this, though, knowing that no matter how good it turns out, it would have been even better if it wasn't turned based.

And I have to say I find the statement "We think that even you people who voted for RTwP will like our turn based system in the end." really hilarous. It's almost an insult to the people who have good reasons for their votes.

Well, I'm glad I didn't throw a bunch of money into the kickstarter, else I'd be very upset.

As I said in the poll comments, this game is dead to me if it breaks from the original's combat system (and all infinity engine games). If I want a turn based isometric RPG, I'll play Wasteland, Fallout (originals), Shadowrun Returns, Jagged Alliance, etc. I have no interest in playing a Planescape sequel with a completely different combat system from the original.

Though, it seems like this game is going to be breaking a lot more from the original than just in combat, so thinking of it as a spiritual sequel at this point probably isn't the right thing to do.

Oh well. We'll see what happens in 2 years, but from reading things lately, this is probably going to be another game I pickup at 75% off and not care about too much (or even be very disappointed about and potentially stop playing or not even play it at all).

I hate turn based combat. This decision probably ruined the whole game for me.

Well, I am no longer interested in this game anymore. Lesson for me I guess: Don't back Kickstarters which don't have gameplay videos.

Anyway, this seems like a big bait and switch by the devs. The entire pitch was about was how Torment was gonna be the big spiritual successor to Plansescape. Well, except for this one major point.

Money down the drain.

Boo hiss.

Sorry, but there has yet to be a turn based system in a CRPG that did not massively slow down the game play. I understand that it is your decision, but honestly if that is what you wanted in the first place you shouldn't have bothered with a vote. All this has done is disappoint the RTwP crowd and these are your backers, without whom you wouldn't have a game. From all of your communication the decision had been made when the poll went up. It was just not wise to leave a bunch of your backers with a feeling of having failed.

Had you just said, we are looking at turn based, what are your thoughts, made it n informal thing without an actual poll then I think most people would have been less disappointed.

But instead you turned 47% of your backers into losers.

Quite frankly, I expected InExile to compromise somehow, but like most politicians they seem to take their ~50% as a mandate rather than a sign of a need to compromise, meet in the middle, or truly understand the other group's concerns. I find it especially troubling considering that even with open advocacy and a general tendency among supporters (me included) to trust the developer, they couldn't even martial a true 50% in support of their idea.

In my opinion this does not bode well and the idea of filing a chargeback continues to float around in my head.

Well crap. Now that's disappointing. I wanted to write a long post here but it's quite clear that devs already made their decision and TB crown simply cannot listen to the voice of reason so there's no point in that now. Oh well, and I thought combat in this game will be enjoyable, how foolish of me. :/

@tobi Yes, I just want my refund and I am out of here. This is not what I pladged for. Everything else was said and done.
Its funny how they claim making game for backers while spitting in half of the voters face.
Also I've noticed “spiritual successor “ evolved into "thematical succesor".. Coincidence?

TB is nothing but a glorified chess game! I would not have pledged for this turkey if TB was known!
I loathe despise hate TB and even more so since a large quantity of conteporary RPGs games have TB which I wont touch!!

Not going to touch this game!! You can have my $ considering the firm is ethical !
Striking this game off my anticipated list!

"Ultimately, there are no losers here."

Of course there are - people who wanted a sequel to Planescape Torment. Despite your claims to the contrary, the combat system (and the Infinity Engine) were a huge part of what made Torment the best RPG of all time.

That you've taken the easy way out because it's cheaper is extremely disappointing. You put effort over authenticity.

oh yeah....rofl...inxile you are so greedy...copy and paste a combat system from a game that was already developed by you recently...guess that was smooth move by upper management and the vote was a Hollywood show...that's all I have to say...ill get over it.....you have ruined a classic...thx

Delicious.

Thank you for making me happy, Schadenfreude.

 

[Akratus]

 

[Goegoff]

Frankly, all the ones that want their money back have a rightful claim.
Fargo did a trick on them because he knew if he said from the start that it wants a turn-based game, it would get less money.
So he should give their money back and cut their losses.

Tricky, tricky Fargo...
But he has much to learn, if he's letting his goons explain his deceptions in spoken and written word like this.


(Seriously, that the combat system will be up for vote has been stated at least a couple of times while the kickstarter was still running.)

 

[Grotesque]

Frankly, all the ones that want their money back have a rightful claim.
Fargo did a trick on them because he knew if he said from the start that it wants a turn-based game, it would get less money.
So he should give their money back and cut their losses.

Frankly, you are a waste of carbon. If you had been able to read, you would have read the game description in the kickstarter page where they clearly stated that they were undecided on the combat system, and that turn based combat was one of the candidates. Additionally, the decision was in line with the backer vote. Illiterates and assorted retards are not a target audience of this game. Good luck trying to prove your delusional claim that the use of turn based system was planned from the start, dumbfuck.

Don't leave it too much time on your face. Don't worry. Fargo has enough for everyone.
Spiteful bitches like you make the best activists. )

 

[Apexeon]

But, but I want Command and Conquer/action RPG's man with the attack drink beer quick time button.
Sozz we can get morezz sales like Call of brain dead duty.
Or Like that new trash "Ryse" son of quick time buttons.

Just do it up den den da da
Just do it up

 

[Akratus]

But, but I want Command and Conquer/action RPG's man with the attack drink beer quick time button.
Sozz we can get morezz sales like Call of brain dead duty.
Or Like that new trash "Ryse" son of quick time buttons.

Just do it up den den da da
Just do it up

Akratus brofists this.

 

[Severian Silk]

Since Wikipedia is the infallable voice on all things gaming, let's see what it has to say.

 

[fanta]

You might say the biodrones are in torment (tides of butthurt).

 

[Nikolaj]

Since Wikipedia is the infallable voice on all things gaming, let's see what it has to say.

Well, let's see what it says in favour of real-time. Hmm, realism, excitement, immurshun, oh and this little nugget:

Turn-based games have too many rules and are difficult to master.

Seriously though, trying to argue that either system is inherently superior is pretty silly, as those arguments clearly show. It's two different systems, each with their own strengths, and I don't have a problem with other people playing and enjoying whatever type of game they want.

I am glad to have a turn-based Torment to look forward to, though, so tough noogies for the crybabies who can't deal with that. I try to not enjoy their squealing too much - since it makes me feel kind of bad about myself - but sadly, I find myself failing at that.

 

[Blaine]

I've been playing chess since I was an infant, and the only feeling I ever felt was confusion.

 

[bylam]

Immersion - the word people use when they don't have coherent argument to make.

I wonder if Troika got the same kind of butthurt from Requiem fans when they announced the combat system in Bloodlines.

 

[Irxy]

I wonder if Troika got the same kind of butthurt from Requiem fans when they announced the combat system in Bloodlines.

Requiem had fans?

 

[Longshanks]

^^Likely more than PST's combat.

 

[Rake]

^^Likely more than PST's combat.

Idiot. Fighting thugs in the Hive was the highlight of PS:T. Listen to smudboy and his followers