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Game News Torment: Tides of Numenera announced for PS4 and Xbox One, gets new trailer

ZagorTeNej

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I wonder why there hasn't been as much whining about Larian also making console version.

Because one of the main features for D:OS from the start was couch co-op and in their first showings of the game Larian devs used controllers. It's quite a bit different situation compared to a sequel to one of the most iconic PC games of the 90s, not to mention Fargo's overplayed shtick of evil publishers sucking the life out of the industry (which is undoubtebly true to a degree but if anything Kickstarter showed it's that most devs are just as mercenary in attitude). How much all this will potentially hurt InXile reputation as a sort of a Black Isle spiritual successor we'll see in their next crowdfunding campaign.

Consoles exist since the 1970s. Sounds oldschool to me to make a console version.

Right but simultaneous multiplatform releases for nearly ever mainstream and semi-mainstream game are a relatively recent phenomenon (say circa 2004-2005) and one of the main reasons for the decline in quality of video games in the eyes of the many among the old school crowd so they're understandably wary of it. When it comes to what are traditionally PC genres expanding your focus to consoles nearly always leads to streamlining/simplifying, you start making compromises in attempt to broaden the audience instead of delivering the best product you can.
 
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Lurker King

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All such reasoning is wrong. When you reason like that - measuring which life is more valuable, you fall into a trap, where kids are the most valuable as "future", so you SHOULD push that fat guy on rails. When somebody start to measure life like that, for example in that part about medical clinic and medical ethics, the very first thing I remember is that Nazis made soap from Jews. It is absolutely the same satanic inhuman approach to human life interesting and scary is that I see it today in news from Europe e.g. where they killed and butchered the giraffe in zoo and people came to watch it with children, or when that girl from Sweden ate her own horse. I instantly understand in such moment that we are absolutely different.

It doesn't work like that. You need to consider that this is a moral dilemma. You are forced by the circumstances to make difficult moral choices. In fact, you are forced to decide which lives you need to preserve. It’s natural that in these circumstances you will consider the character, achievements and other properties that are morally relevant to decide which lives you will save. It would be ludicrous and arbitrary not to. Your objection that this would lead to a slippery slope in which mass murder would be justified doesn’t work, because the dilemma involves extreme circumstances. Besides, I think that this formulation of the dilemma is excessive because it forces you to push someone and the guy is fat ("fat shaming!"). It is better to consider a scenario in which you can pull a lever to redirect a trolley that will kill five instead of one.
 
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Lurker King

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Because one of the main features for D:OS from the start was couch co-op and in their first showings of the game Larian devs used controllers.

Which just shows how much decline it's involved in the D:OS.
 

Athelas

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How much all this will potentially hurt InXile reputation as a sort of a Black Isle spiritual successor we'll see in their next crowdfunding campaign.
Something tells me they'll survive:

  1. TrentJaspar 1 day ago
    @inXile: Who decides when it's ready for release, you or Techland? Just trying to figure out how many patches I'll have to wait for before playing. :)
    Mac/Linux users: Yes, although they say "PC," I'm sure that means Windows+MacOS+Linux. I do find it disrespectful that they say they "read all comments" but didn't respond to the many Mac/Linux users asking for clarification. This from a Windows user.
    @GOG backers: I'm sure it will still be available on GOG...they have promised it. Unless they explicitly say they're breaking that promise, I'm sure they're keeping it.


  2. Tilly 2 days ago
    Take the time you need to polish this game. :)

    As long as it's released free of DRM and on Linux, I'll be happy. If porting to consoles allows you to afford making more of these games, get to it! ^__^


  3. Neal Ballard 2 days ago
    As one of the very few (seriously, less than 5) things that I've ever kickstarted, this makes me very happy! I'd be even happier to know if there is a way to choose which format I get the game in. I do 99.9% of my gaming on PS4, so I'd love to be able to get that version without having to pay extra.


  4. Ronny Bangsund 3 days ago
    What Ryan Pascall said. Although I've already activated it, but never tried it, on Steam. If there's a "crossgrade" style discount to also get the PS4 version, that would be good too :)


  5. Darth Trethon - Exile in Torment 3 days ago
    OMG YESSSSSSS!!! Best news ever!!! I will definitely buy TToN on PS4 and play it primarily there.....potentially only there!! One less game that I'll need my gaming PC for.....THANK YOU!!! A lot happier that I backed this game now(not that I was ever unhappy about it or anything).


  6. Ryan Pascall 3 days ago
    I'd like to know if we have a choice of format now for the game's eventual release?
    In other words, can we choose PS4 instead of PC, even if this requires a longer wait?


  7. Alexander Aas 3 days ago
    Interesting I guess. But I do not really care too much about anything other than the PC version. As long as the PC GUI will not suffer because of it (and that inXeil still maintains 100% control and will never change anything to the game for any other reason that they themselves feel the game will benefit), it can only be good with more widespread distribution.


  8. Fitheach 3 days ago
    @alcaray no I don't think your rude to ask for clarification, indeed thanks for asking though it seems the answer isn't coming, I was just putting forward a reassuring narrative that is hopefully accurate, trust me I'll be there with the pitchforks if there are no GOG keys.


  9. W. Andrew Robinson 3 days ago
    So, still Windows only still? I don't see macOS (or Linux) support yet via my Steam account with the 'all Backers' Steam key. Any idea when macOS will be included?


  10. Nerdy Suit 3 days ago
    Richard Bowen - Your comment is so illogical and misinformed that I don't even know how to respond to it.


  11. Young_Gangrel 3 days ago
    Wow...just wow.


  12. meganothing dread bard of torment BOSB 3 days ago
    @alcaray: Could you give an example of a console-adapted UI-element in Wl2:DC? Preferable one where the UI got worse for PC users.

    I played WL2 and DC and for example DC Inventory and Character screen seemed to be an improvement over WL2. Not at all like Fallout 3 with its endless inventory tab.


  13. razor001
    Superbacker
    3 days ago

    Richard I don't think they will stop making the game better. Look at wasteland 2 they improved it and kept adding onto it even tho it was also delayed a long time. Inexile has a good reputation in the computer world so I doubt they will turn out a crappy game just to hit a deadline.


  14. Richard Bowen 4 days ago
    I don't like it, not even a little. I really had strong hopes for the game, but delay after delay after delay and now consoles get it at the same time as PC? really? And there's no difference in the game.. then why has it been delayed nearly 2 years? Why all the sudden can you start making deadlines? Now that you have another project to work on and have strung us along it's hand it off to the publisher and screw the people that backed you how long ago now. I want my money back as I will never get my trust back. Kickstarter used to be about getting a project done that no one would finance now it's turning into just another revenue stream and hype machine. Again, I want my money back.


  15. alcaray 4 days ago
    @Zoot

    Some have a controller but no mouse. Some are in the opposite situation. All are right to be concerned that a game developed for one might not be perfectly ported to enable the other. Over the decades there are many examples of great games that were made worse by developing the game one way and porting to the other.

    As somebody noted below, Wasteland II Director's Cut suddenly had weird controls for PC users.


  16. Stewart "Zoot" Wymer
    Superbacker
    4 days ago

    Honestly I don't see how different a change from controller support for a console will hinder PC users. It's clear when a game has been made for a controller and when it's made for a mouse. I think play might suffer more on consoles with the UI currently working with Torment. I don't really see them ripping out the existing UI in the PC version and making it more "console friendly" rather than perhaps tweaking the existing UI to make another version for consoles. I still think that it may not be as flexible as a mouse (and that's the deal sometimes - some games are simply better with a mouse, some are simply better with a controller).

    Also, embracing Chaos? I can get behind that :)


  17. alcaray 4 days ago
    @Fitheach.

    You may be right in your assumption. Do you think I'm rude for asking for clarification, or what?


  18. Muad'Dib 4 days ago
    "How does this affect the game?" the answer is rather simple, it doesn't."

    2 years late. And counting.

    So if you have to develop a PS4 version, develop a XBoxOne version, change the UI, conduct negotiations with Sony and Microsoft etc., this does not affect the PC version and the timeline?
    LOL


  19. Fitheach 4 days ago
    alcaray as I mentioned Paradox handled all distribution for Obsidian with Pillars I imagine it will be the same here. It means that it is Techland that negotiate with Steam and GOG and whatever and them that handle key distribution etc.


  20. William Kreusch 4 days ago
    Hopefully we'll get full controller and console like UI and text support for the PC version. I'm an old school RPG lover but these days I almost always prefer big tv, controller and couch to monitor and M&K. Any confirmation on that, guys?


  21. alcaray 4 days ago
    " Techland will be handling retail distribution..."

    is what they said. They made no distinction about digital vs physical distribution. That is what I'm talking about.


  22. Stephen "Stoibs" D
    Superbacker
    4 days ago

    Eww, techland. Very yuck.
    Well, as long as it doesn't affect your actual development of the game then I suppose any involvement here and association with us backers will hopefully be very minimal.


  23. ET3D 4 days ago
    alcaray, not sure what you're talking about. The publishing deal should only affect the physical reward, and since the physical game tier also includes a digital copy, I'd imagine that you'd get that GOG version whether you've backed the physical or digital tiers.


  24. Fitheach 4 days ago
    It shouldn't change anything with regards to digital distribution. Just like Pillars is distributed by Paradox not Obsidian.


  25. alcaray 4 days ago
    So, I'm guessing that this means I won't be able to add TTON to my GOG collection, now? But instead I'll have to figure out if I am willing to live with some new distributors terms of service? Or what?

    I think you left out half the story.


  26. rusty_dragon 4 days ago
    Like in old good days, you know ;)


  27. rusty_dragon 4 days ago
    I hope console port would be made from PC version and doesn't affect development and release of PC version.


  28. StrangeCat 4 days ago
    Let's use that Picture from the Console Trailer as the Cover for the PS4. It gives it more of a film type epic atmosphere, sort of like Knights of the Old Republic Games.
    I don't even care about your political correctness, it looks great! And would make a great cover for the PS4 or Xbox.


  29. Tomimt 4 days ago
    Just as it was with Wasteland 2 and its controls, the controls of Torment really aren't so complicated that making them work with a control pad would cause any danger of dumping the game down.

    Hell, Planescape Torment could be turned into a fully pad controlled game and it wouldn't damage it one iota.


  30. Adam Sloat 4 days ago
    I see this already asked, but will add to it as well, maybe to give the idea more support.

    Love to change to a PS4 version if possible.


  31. Questor Thorn 4 days ago
    Good news! With this coming to consoles is it likely that we will be getting controller support on the PC version?


  32. Eli Butcher 4 days ago
    So is there a way to get a console key instead of a PC key? I'd prefer to get it on Xbox, rather than PC. Just a personal preference.


  33. Salmanasar 4 days ago
    @inXile entertainment
    "For those of you who backed Torment and are wondering, "how does this affect the game?" the answer is rather simple, it doesn't" - except that it does, especially if you're talking about WL2:DC "success" in this matter in the next paragraph. Yea, you didnt touch the story or mechanics, but UI and menus were VERY console-ish in PC version of DC (especially if compred to the non-DC WL2), so if you're considering it as "success", then I'm more than dissapointed. My only hope is that PC version is so far in development that its UI and menus wont be victim of "standardization" with consoles.


  34. William Immendorf 4 days ago
    That's not the publisher choice I was expecting, but seriously.. GL to this project. I've enjoyed following it up for quite a while now. I might acutally seriously get the explorer's guide in print instead of just digital, really, really love how the game is shaping up.


  35. inXile entertainment Creator 4 days ago
    John Buczek - Correct, the hardcover preorder is up and will get you a code now (so you can get the preorder from MCG before it closes), but the Explorer's Guide itself will be available mid-August. We'll let everyone who has it know when it's available.

    For now though you can click the "Downloads" button on your Explorer's Guide and you should be able to grab the 20-page preview MCG released, that way you can have a sneak peek. :)


  36. Lucreto 4 days ago
    Can I change to the PS4 version? Since I backed this my PC died and I don't have the funds to rebuild it.


  37. John Buczek 4 days ago
    So from this I assume that those of us that backed the PDF Game Book will get codes for it by mid-August? I logged into the Torment site and didn't see a code attached to the PDF book in my Rewards yet.

    Thanks.


  38. Jamison Stone 4 days ago
    Awesome!


  39. inXile entertainment Creator 4 days ago
    Thanks for the responses and feedback everyone, we are most definitely reading the comments. :)

    Regarding consoles for backers - on consoles there are additional costs involved providing game keys etc. But, we are aware of the interest and will let you know if we have any news.


  40. Jalister 4 days ago
    I don't have a problem with a publisher when they are basically providing the role of distributor. As long inXile stays in control, the DRM stays away, and it arrive on Linux, I'm good.


  41. Pablo Martínez 4 days ago
    Sale here. I would like to switch to PS4, if feasible.


  42. Cezar Rodrigues 4 days ago
    Yeah, I probably would like to change my digital copy from PC to PS4.


  43. Anderson Bouton 4 days ago
    Backers. Let's not be so quick to offer more money in order to receive your digital copy of the game for console rather than PC. You paid for a digital copy of the game. Hopefully InXile honors that in the form the consumer prefers.


  44. Kevin James Lambert 4 days ago
    I, too, utilize my ps4 more than my computer these days. I backed for physical goods, if the content between ps4 and PC is identical, i'd love the option to switch to ps4. A modest cost increase would be acceptable but less content would not be.


  45. Domopunk 4 days ago
    I'd like to join the chorus of backers wondering if it is possible to change to a console version of the game. My (admittedly old) laptop had issues running PoE on low settings sometimes, so it would be nice to be able to play it on my PS4 instead. Super psyched either way though!


  46. Paul J Natsch 4 days ago
    To those wondering about the Macintosh version, myself included, the "PC" designation probably encompasses all OSs they are making the game for, including Mac and Linux. Sometimes publishers consolidate everything into the designation "PC", perhaps just for brevity. Especially when you throw consoles into the mix. I'm not crazy about the practice myself because sometimes it literally means just PC as in Windows. You never can tell for sure.

    However I don't think there's anything to worry about here but a clarification wouldn't hurt.


  47. StrangeCat 4 days ago
    That trailer music though is missing some Harmony, it almost get's there but it stays to flat with the horns, sorry had to say it, it's still a fantastic Trailer! Love that cover art work too!


  48. Lucian Levine 4 days ago
    Same question as many others, I'm playing my Xbox One more than my pc these days, any way to swap my digital copy for an Xbox version?


  49. StrangeCat 4 days ago
    That trailer is really fantastic! I look forward to seeing this on the Ps4! I'll buy a PS4 version just to own it! Maybe buy a Ps4 and play it on 4k?


  50. Jedra7609
    Superbacker
    4 days ago

    Indeed - if it's the same content then a switch to the XBONE version would be cool!

  1. Azureblaze 4 days ago
    Great news! This releasing on more than just computer gaming systems is more exposure for the game, which I think is awesome. Especially as you are not planning on changing the PC version of the game. I do think however that it would not hurt to add controller support/UI as an OPTION in the PC version if possible.


  2. Ivan Fiedoruk 4 days ago
    I'm mostly playing PS4 these days, is there a chance to change my copy from PC to PS4? I'm willing to pay a few bucs, if needed, in order to do that...


  3. Jan Smejkal 4 days ago
    @crazys Then you largely misunderstand the gamedev process and role of a publisher. The goal of KS project like this is to enable the dev to retain all creative control and IP ownership.
    It used to be the case that a gamedev develops a game funded by a publisher and then the publisher has final say in all creative stuff, handles all marketing, owns the IP and keeps nearly all profit. If the game is super successful the gamedev might receive a one-time bonus payment but usually just a relative pittance. This is not a healhty relationship and KS projects fight just that, not the publishers.
    Publishers, you know, still provide very useful services. They can handle marketing, QA, and all the distribution and retail stuff. Which is expensive and time consuming as f**k. And all this is needed for better success of a game. Which is why most big KS projects eventually find a publisher. Yes, as the publisher invests into their part of necessary duties it means they keep part of the profits. As long as the gamedev has creative control over the project and keeps owning what they create (the IP) then this relationship is very very healthy.


  4. Paweł Krakowiak 4 days ago
    Another backer here, same question really (just so you see how many requests there are :) ). I backed the project a few years ago, but nowadays PS4 is my main gaming system. I would like to get a PS4 digital copy instead of PC - any chance there's a way to pay up and exchange my PC key for a PS4 version?


  5. Jordan York 4 days ago
    I'm loving what you guys have done with the game. I don't regret supporting you one bit. However, I'm more of a console gamer than a PC gamer these days. I'd switch platforms if I had the option. If not, I may need to sell my collectors edition to buy the PS4 version when it is released.


  6. Ahmed Kachkach 4 days ago
    Echoing Andrea's comment: You clearly said the game would be available on Mac OS at launch time. It's even in the main illustration of this KS campaign. Why are you suddenly talking about a PC release and not mentioning Mac OS?


  7. matodon 4 days ago
    I backed the game for a digital copy but I would prefer it for my ps4. Are you offering the ability to choose which version to get, or am I stuck with the PC?


  8. Ivan 4 days ago
    tell us this won't mean the game will be fully voice acted


  9. Simon Roby 4 days ago
    Please give us the option to "upgrade" to a console version. I wouldn't mind the extra wait.


  10. crazyd 4 days ago
    Man, I thought the whole point of Kickstarters was to bypass largely useless publishers and maintain complete control of the project. It annoys me when a company takes our money and then just sells out to a publisher anyway. I wanted to sponsor an independent game project, not give money to someone who's just gonna jump through the normal publisher hoops.


  11. Gregory Pietras 4 days ago
    Any chance backers can opt for a console version if they spent enough for a digital copy of the game?


  12. Wes Johnson 4 days ago
    With as sinfully late as the KS is, you should be offering the source book to backers for cheaper as in free as an olive branch.


  13. Andrea Sansone 4 days ago
    I'm a bit surprised by the lack of official OSX support in the last image of the trailer. Is this something you simply forgot or is it time for me to get on Bootcamp?
 

AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
- A game uses a health pool = "dumbed down"
- Changes to UI = "consolized"
- Portraits are not 2D (?) = "consolized"*

If that's all the arguments the highly cultured RPG connoisseurs can bring up... :lol:

* - PoE had pretty stylish portraits. I guess that makes it the epitome of old-school cRPG. :M
 

Melcar

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- A game uses a health pool = "dumbed down"
- Changes to UI = "consolized"
- Portraits are not 2D (?) = "consolized"*

If that's all the arguments the highly cultured RPG connoisseurs can bring up... :lol:

* - PoE had pretty stylish portraits. I guess that makes it the epitome of old-school cRPG. :M


You forgot...

- Your mom is a whore


Seriously thought, you have to admit that the changes were made to streamline and make the presentation more appealing, because hey, their target market just got bigger.
 
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QrSYccv.png

called it
 

AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
- A game uses a health pool = "dumbed down"
- Changes to UI = "consolized"
- Portraits are not 2D (?) = "consolized"*

If that's all the arguments the highly cultured RPG connoisseurs can bring up... :lol:

* - PoE had pretty stylish portraits. I guess that makes it the epitome of old-school cRPG. :M


You forgot...

- Your mom is a whore


Seriously thought, you have to admit that the changes were made to streamline and make the presentation more appealing, because hey, their target market just got bigger.

I saw people here claiming the game's content has been edited in response to changes in audience resulting from the decision to launch console versions. Such beliefs automatically identify a person as a retard in my book.

Conversely, I have yet to see anything resembling actual evidence of the game being "dumbed down" much less a definition of "dumbed down". It's just enraged manboons clicking emojis because that's apparently the limit of their communication capabilities. I guess I should be thankful there is even someone responding with actual text like you are doing.

Also, your 're spelinng is whrong, lets setel this:
http://wikidiff.com/though/thought
Enviado de meu dick usando your sister's ass.
 
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FeelTheRads

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Messages
13,716
I saw people here claiming the game's content has been edited in reponse to changes in audience resulting from the decision to launch console versions. Such beliefs automatically identify a person as a retard in my book.

And, why exactly? I'd say that if you think the content will not or was not changed at all because of consoles then you are the retard. Fair enough, do you think?

P.S. Hope you enjoy the text reply along with the emoticon.
 

AwesomeButton

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I saw people here claiming the game's content has been edited in reponse to changes in audience resulting from the decision to launch console versions. Such beliefs automatically identify a person as a retard in my book.

And, why exactly? I'd say that if you think the content will not or was not changed at all because of consoles then you are the retard. Fair enough, do you think?

P.S. Hope you enjoy the text reply along with the emoticon.
Yeah right, I can visualise the office meeting:

Fargo: Guys, as you know part of our deal with Techland involves doing console versions. You know what that means - I want daily crunches in all teams directed at dumbing down the game to suit console audiences. 2D art teams, start downscaling asset quality, 3D - I want that Warcraft feel, Narrative - rewrite quests for less words and cut out as much meaningful dialogue and branching questlines as possible. This has to be ready for QA by Christmas. Get on and dumb that shit down.


So, yeah - you believe that, you definitely are a retard.

P.S. I no longer see ratings, so you're welcome to clicking emojis as a form of self-treatment.
 
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prodigydancer

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I saw people here claiming the game's content has been edited in reponse to changes in audience resulting from the decision to launch console versions. Such beliefs automatically identify a person as a retard in my book.
Indeed, there's no connection between thunder and lightning. It's obviously just a coincidence that one follows the other.

Conversely, I have yet to see anything resembling actual evidence of the game being "dumbed down"
You're kidding, right? With health bars, you don't need to care about your stat pools. Even if they're nearly depleted you still go into combat and win. If that's not dumbing down, I don't know what is. Stat pools depletion is supposed to be a sort of C&C in Numenera because of how important they are. Now in TToN it's simply boring and inconsequential resource management.

Also, your 're spelinng is whrong
Says someone who writes "reponse." A model grammar nazi, you are... :M
 

FeelTheRads

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I saw people here claiming the game's content has been edited in reponse to changes in audience resulting from the decision to launch console versions. Such beliefs automatically identify a person as a retard in my book.

And, why exactly? I'd say that if you think the content will not or was not changed at all because of consoles then you are the retard. Fair enough, do you think?

P.S. Hope you enjoy the text reply along with the emoticon.
Yeah right, I can viaualise the office meeting:

Fargo: Guys, as you know part of our deal with Techland involves doing console versions. You know what that means - I want daily crunches in all teams directed at dumbing down the game to suit console audiences. 2D art teams, start downscaling asset quality, 3D - I want that Warcraft feel, Narrative - rewrite quests for less words and cut out as much meaningful dialogue and branching questlines as possible. This has to be ready for QA by Christmas. Get on and dumb that shit down.


So, yeah - you believe that, you definetly are a retard.

I don't know how their meetings go, but it doesn't have to be that extreme.
However, your strong belief that nothing changed or will change, because doing parallel development certainly never affects anything, we all know that... well then "definetly" (lulz grammer)... you know...

P.S. I no longer see ratings, so you're welcome to clicking emojis as a form of self-treatment.

:retarded: :butthurt:

There you go. You can see those.
 

Latelistener

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Right but simultaneous multiplatform releases for nearly ever mainstream and semi-mainstream game are a relatively recent phenomenon (say circa 2004-2005) and one of the main reasons for the decline in quality of video games in the eyes of the many among the old school crowd so they're understandably wary of it. When it comes to what are traditionally PC genres expanding your focus to consoles nearly always leads to streamlining/simplifying, you start making compromises in attempt to broaden the audience instead of delivering the best product you can.
The console audience itself has changed dramatically over the years. I have a few ideas of what happened, but regardless... today's consoles are like King Midas, except everything they touch turns into shit, eventually.
 
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Lurker King

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So Fargo promises that he will invest all his resources in making a RPG for PC, his pitch is an attempt to ridicule the traditional publisher that doesn’t get what traditional cRPGs are about, and now we discover that he invested resources and delayed the lunch because he was porting the game to consoles, catering to causals and making deals with the same publishers that he made us believe we shouldn’t trust in the first place. This is bad whether you are considering the issue from a moral perspective (he was fooling the backers), from a design perspective (dumbing down the mechanics and the UI) or from a cultural perspective (it makes Torment a product publicly associated with causals, which goes against what the whole Kickstarter thing was about in the first place). However, none of these obvious facts seems to matter. Against all the evidence, you will see posters saying “You have to play the game before you make any criticisms”, “cRPGs ported to consoles are not dumb down”, “Remind me about his lies again??”. Orwell was right, “we have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men”.
 

a mod

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It doesn't work like that. You need to consider that this is a moral dilemma. You are forced by the circumstances to make difficult moral choices. In fact, you are forced to decide which lives you need to preserve. It’s natural that in these circumstances you will consider the character, achievements and other properties that are morally relevant to decide which lives you will save. It would be ludicrous and arbitrary not to. Your objection that this would lead to a slippery slope in which mass murder would be justified doesn’t work, because the dilemma involves extreme circumstances. Besides, I think that this formulation of the dilemma is excessive because it forces you to push someone and the guy is fat ("fat shaming!"). It is better to consider a scenario in which you can pull a lever to redirect a trolley that will kill five instead of one.

It's a 'leading question' as it were. The greater good is easy to use as an excuse to do whatever you like, and that is exactly how the nazis wound up offing retards and the soviets killing off so many people for wrongthink.

The reality is YOU SIMPLY DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to make such decisions. The fat guy's life belongs to him.

And for the dumber people, just look at the possibilities I already listed. What if you kill the guy and it turns out it does no good? That is, you used a rationalization to murder someone and it turned out your rationalization was false. The fat guys doesn't stop the train or else it turns out the train could stop anyway, or the driver switches tracks. Or perhaps the kids set this up intentionally to try to force you to kill that guy.

In real life if you did this retarded action you would go to jail. That is because the law is based on the idea that you don't have the right to decide who lives and dies simply because the outcome would possibly be better for "society" ie you.

This is the basis of marxist philosophy. There is just a big assumption that you can do whatever you choose and a convenient rationalization. Thankfully our laws don't work on such shoddy bullshit thinking, at least not yet, or it would mean the government could just murder whoever they want whenever it's convenient. But go ahead and try and apply it to real life and see how many laws you violate, then ask yourself why.

People's value is not their value to 'society' ie YOU. It is inherent value. If people don't have inherent value then how does society have any value in the first place? Maybe the fat guy is a doctor and the three kids are future murderers, but that is irrelevant or maybe the fat guy is a pedorape and the three kids are future astronauts but that is irrelevant. Either they are human and humans have inherent value ie a soul, or else it doesn't matter whether anyone lives or dies in the first place.This is the same reason a doctor NEVER intentionally harms a patient or denies care. Who the fuck is he to say whether Hitler is a saint or devil? Or whether niggers deserve to have medical care or not? These perceptions change day by day in society but real morality does not change with the direction of the wind.

And that is the real point here, to dehumanize and demoralize students by presenting them a false moral dichotomy. Who is it best to murder? Well, it's worng to murder people, period. And if your philosophy doesn't incorporate that then it is shallow, empty and useless.

If you don't get it from there then there's no helping you.
 
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Zeriel

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I wonder why there hasn't been as much whining about Larian also making console version.

Are you being genuine here or not? I honestly can't tell if this is trolling. In Torment's case the console port is coming out at the same time as the PC release. So there is a very distinct possibility that backer money funded the console "port". In D:OS's case, the console port was released long after the PC title, was funded by their profits of retail sales rather than backer money, and added lots of features for PC players. Comparing the two makes InXile look very, very bad.
 

Fenix

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You are forced by the circumstances to make difficult moral choices.
Eny choice is difficult only if person have blurry moral imperatives. In case of fat guy your only choice is to convince to jump down and sacrifice himself, or you can jump yourself in hope it would be enough.
So I see no problem, no "difficult moral choice".

In fact, you are forced to decide which lives you need to preserve.
Nope, in fact you have no such choice, because if you imply that such choice=true, it mean you already made it.

It’s natural that in these circumstances you will consider the character, achievements and other properties that are morally relevant to decide which lives you will save.
No it isn't. It is natural for you because my moral imperatives unknow for you, for me this choice isn't exist.

Your objection that this would lead to a slippery slope in which mass murder would be justified doesn’t work, because the dilemma involves extreme circumstances.
It work, no matter how strong you want to deny it.
Also the accident we disscussing also on my taste "involves extreme circumstances".
This kind of denies is pathtic.

It is better to consider a scenario in which you can pull a lever to redirect a trolley that will kill five instead of one.
Better for whom? Instead of 5 kiled in accident, you'll get 1 killed intentionnly.
Believe me such person will be tormented by conscience until the end of his life for this murder.
For your conscience there is no difference.
 

prodigydancer

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What does one fat guy matter?

Maybe he was a brilliant surgeon who had saved hundreds of lives and could save more if you morons remembered that RL isn't a fucking RPG. But now he's dead. Oh, and the footage from that security camera over there will certainly convince the judge to put you away for life.
 

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The real question is, if YOU were the fat guy would you jump to save them. No, of course not. So if you would not even do it yourself how would you justify forcing someone else? It's the ultimate hypocrisy.

And I am sure some will answer they would, but in reality it's unlikley. You can give up all your belongings and save a bunch of lives with the proceeds by sending it to Africa. So why don't you.

In reality the only time someone might is say if they were related to one of the kids, or if they had terminal cancer or some other life shortener. And even then it would be difficult to actually implement this.
 
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Fenix

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That is because the law is based on the idea that you don't have the right to decide who lives and dies simply because the outcome would possibly be better for "society" ie you.
All that line refering/appealing to "Law" is wrong.
Law is tool of state. State is a mashine of forcible compulsion, this is how it work. Law, or State Law by which western civilization is obsessed or better posessed isn't the same as ethics law, in fact they are contradict each other, because state law is written by human, and the supreme law of of morality is always a sacral law, and it is the only immutable law.
Actually state have various person in charge who decide who will live and who will die - army, secret/intelligence service etc.
 

AwesomeButton

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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
You're kidding, right? With health bars, you don't need to care about your stat pools. Even if they're nearly depleted you still go into combat and win. If that's not dumbing down, I don't know what is. Stat pools depletion is supposed to be a sort of C&C in Numenera because of how important they are. Now in TToN it's simply boring and inconsequential resource management.
They changed the implementation of the Numenara ruleset. Because all the IE games were perfect in regard to their implementation of D&D. This still doesn't tell you much about how the game will play. It can be an easy game with a health pool, or a hard game with a health pool and the same can be said about it being with and without stat pool depletion.
Says someone who writes "reponse." A model grammar nazi, you are... :M
well then "definetly" (lulz grammer)...
I try to spot my errors and I fix them when I find them.

I don't know how their meetings go, but it doesn't have to be that extreme.
However, your strong belief that nothing changed or will change, because doing parallel development certainly never affects anything, we all know that...
It's a belief, until I see the game itself.

Divinity Original Sin was decline, right Lurker King ? Another tryhard. :lol: Not that it means anything, just mentioning, but wasn't D:OS Codex GOTY?

BTW, here's some quality cRPGs to recommend to you, that have no console versions, no dumbed down gameplay, no crappy writing - BG:EE + Siege of Dragonspear, Pillars of Eternity. :lol:

All of you get Diagnosis: Tryhard. No one claiming TToN is getting dumbed down has anything to go on apparently. At least not until we see the game.


:retarded: :butthurt:

There you go. You can see those.
Like I said, suit yourself. You can even draw me a doodle next time. Your creativity is noted.
 

Fenix

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What does one fat guy matter?

Maybe he was a brilliant surgeon who had saved hundreds of lives and could save more if you morons remembered that RL isn't a fucking RPG. But now he's dead. Oh, and the footage from that security camera over there will certainly convince the judge to put you away for life.
And what? What if your daughter's or wife's organs needed to save very important physicist?
After you answer this I will suggest another person - very important politician, next will be very important sportstar, next will be very very important rock-rap-tectonic star.
Next will be very important major of your sity.
If you don't understand that if you fall into trap in first example with very important scientist, you will unevitable chop your family into pieces just to meet the demand of every person that have just slightest more power or popularity than you - you are a fool.
 

a mod

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All that line refering/appealing to "Law" is wrong.
Law is tool of state. State is a mashine of forcible compulsion, this is how it work. Law, or State Law by which western civilization is obsessed or better posessed isn't the same as ethics law, in fact they are contradict each other, because state law is written by human, and the supreme law of of morality is always a sacral law, and it is the only immutable law.
Actually state have various person in charge who decide who will live and who will die - army, secret/intelligence service etc.

The law comes from christianity though, not from the state. The laws created by the state in the old days used the same principles of practicality. The saxons for example just gave some kind of fine for almost all crime. You kill someone? You have to give their wife a silver piece. Because lives were not treated as inherently valuable.

That is the difference between morality and practicality.

Look at all the hoops people jump through to justify their decisions here. In reality they are all wrong, because you don't have the right to make such judgements or the wisdom to even foretell the consequences of your actions. Do you kill baby Hitler in his bath? He has done nothing wrong. Maybe you do and the world is a better place. Maybe you do and Rommel becomes the leader of Germany and everyone on earth winds up speaking German.

Morality has to have a deeper basis.

Real philosophy does for that matter. For a system to be complete, it must be free from hypocrisy to put it in layman's terms. Marxist philosophical systems are the ultimate in hypocrisy. Which I exposed when I pointed out that no one would sacrifice themsleves if they were the fat man.

Almost no one would even consider it let alone do it. It's easy to know that's true because if someone is drowning 99% of people just sit there watching.
 

Fenix

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The law comes from christianity though, not from the state.
Lol no. It is true as long as society is christan, and it is a given of this aspect of society and not the law itself.
Look at Europe - it isn't a christian society for a very long time (those question that it never been christianic in full sense of that word because of Catholic heresy we leave behind brackets), moral decay has reached unprecedented abyss.

That is the difference between morality and practicality.
When someone starts to produce new entities, Occam's razor apper and kill him very violently.

Real philosophy does for that matter.
Occam's razor is coming.
 

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