Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Pre-Release Thread [ALPHA RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Blaine]

No, the best PNP games I ever played lacked miniatures. Sorry, but environmental hazards often make for a worse gaming experience.

1. PnP ≠ cRPGs. Abstracting combat among a group of dweebs sitting around a table isn't a feasible approach when applied to computer gaming.
2. You're not actually sorry.
3. That last is entirely subjective and is your opinion only.

 

[Utgard-Loki]

arbitrary party limits are fucking retarded. you can only have six characters, why? because it's hardcoded infinity engine crap, enjoy! make it dependant on the charisma/intellect stat. and not in a boring "max followers: 6" way, but by actually making you be all intellectual and shit by talking to two party members that are about to tear each others throats open because one of them is a black panther and the other burns crosses.

and don't argue with fucking gameplay balance, it's like 2 lines of code to raise the numbers of enemies in an encounter, giving some npc 4-5 extra guards, getting less experience or what the fuck ever.

 

[LeStryfe79]

4th ed DnD was the most reliant on tactical grid based combat, with environment playing a big factor. It's also considered the lowest point in the history of the franchise by far. The best DnD I've ever played did take environment into account, but in a more organic way. We did use miniatures, and in fact had hundreds of them. That said, the better games ignored them and concentrated on Role playing, ingenuity, and use of character skills. I've played hundreds of PnP sessions in multiple formats and this was almost always the case.

 

[JarlFrank]

No, the best PNP games I ever played lacked miniatures. Sorry, but environmental hazards often make for a worse gaming experience.

This is the most ridiculous claim I've ever heard.
All pen and paper games I played, and all PC games I played, have only been vastly improved by maneuvering across the battlefield and by actually having an environment you can interact with.

Currently having a D&D 3.5 game with some friends going, and last week we had to defend from a huge group of rats that our wizard chick accidentally awakened by entering a different building on the first floor, over a narrow beam. I tried to come and help her but failed my dex check and almost fell from the beam, managed to get back though. She managed to flee back into our building, while our druid got some torches, lit them up with a spell and held them close to the beam so the rats wouldn't be able to cross it. But about 50 of them already managed to follow our wizard, many of them were hanging at her dress and biting her. So I grabbed her dress and ripped it off to get the rats off her, then I attacked them with my sword, while our rogue took a torch and fought the rats with that, leading to a couple of burning rats running all across the room. When the fight was over, I put out the fires on the rats by stamping on them to prevent anything in the room to catch on fire.

This could never have happened if we fought combat like a blobber. This would also have ended way different without the narrow beam as an environmental hazard that restricted movement.

Best PnP, as well as best CPRGs, always have maneuvering and interactive environments. It improves the gaming experience a LOT.

 

[Excidium]

P. much. There is no reason to not consider and detail the location where the battle is happening. Things like cover, high ground, chokepoints, dangerous terrain and obstacles in general greatly increase the tactical depth without adding retarded JRPG powers.

4th ed DnD was the most reliant on tactical grid based combat, with environment playing a big factor. It's also considered the lowest point in the history of the franchise by far.

By reasons that are completely unrelated to miniature use which is a part of D&D since it was created.

 

[LeStryfe79]

Meh, thats cool. My DM's a psychopath anyway.

 

[Hobo Elf]

Consider how empty X-COM would be without the environmental stuff in it; if it was a blobber instead.

 

[Gozma]

Roguelikes and blobbers have all the same geometrical and combat shit going on. All the stuff you can do with the "party" in a blobber is equivalent to just giving an individual roguelike character more options and abilities. There's nothing inherently wrong with it for gameplay.

The main thing I think would be bad for mixing a blobber with an NPCs and dialog game like Torment would be that in gameplay terms the party members in a blobber are fake avatars on buttons for menu screens. The NPCs have trivial gameplay existence and it would feel like bullshit to give them narrative individuality.

The Errant Signal guy would say it would have ludo-narrative dissonance

 

[Jaesun]

Brian Fargo ‏@BrianFargo11m
Our PayPal monies for #Torment are now $49,830 putting us that much closer to the next stretch goal.

55,349
backers
$3,022,931
pledged of $900,000 goal

KS + PP = $3,072,761

 

[JarlFrank]

I wonder if they'll manage to reach the MCA stretch goal.

 

[Infinitron]

Of course they will.

 

[Jaesun]

Its trending toward $4,684,872

 

[Hobo Elf]

There's still 11 days left plus the last few days usually see some influx in donations so my guess is probably most likely.

 

[Jaesun]

Colin McComb ‏@ColinMcComb1m
My kids are in the other room, saying things like, "Updated my setting... updated my alignment... updated my..." You get the idea.

That's so adorable. <3

 

[Captain Shrek]

I wonder if they'll manage to reach the MCA stretch goal.

As I see it, 3.5 is guaranteed. 4 almost. The problem could be that 4 may the upper limit after all since there aren't simply enough people. Depends on the hype really.

 

[Jasede]

There's a decent chance it'll pass 5 big ones, depending on the ending rush and the stretch goals. Also the prerendered background announcement will probably help as well.

 

[Captain Shrek]

Also the prerendered background announcement will probably help as well.

Count my excitement quelled at that. But as long as they go Turn based I am willing.

 

[almondblight]

Brian Fargo ‏@BrianFargo11m
Our PayPal monies for #Torment are now $49,830 putting us that much closer to the next stretch goal.

55,349
backers
$3,022,931
pledged of $900,000 goal

KS + PP = $3,072,761

$3,275,715 if you count Fargo and that other guy's matching funds. Of course, Fargo's is just illusory shifting money around, but it will go towards the stretch goals (which, eh, are a bit illusory too so...).

 

[Jasede]

What would you prefer? Free camera & 3D?

 

[Zed]

Environmental hazards: cool if they're somehow avoidable (pulling monsters into a different room, trap removal, etc.), they're shit if it results in a dancing game (fires erupt from the ground, alternating between position A and position B!).

What would you prefer? Free camera & 3D?

Locked camera & 2D.
Seriously I'm surprised they haven't talked about this yet. They haven't got a lot of time remaining before the KS ends.

 

[Jaesun]

Locked camera & 2D.

 

[hiver]

I would be more surprised if they go 2D backgrounds then not at this point.
But it depends on a lot of things they may be planning for environments and the future tech that will be real in 2015.

Though the fan opinion is quite strong on the issue.

 

[Roguey]

$3,275,715 if you count Fargo and that other guy's matching funds. Of course, Fargo's is just illusory shifting money around, but it will go towards the stretch goals (which, eh, are a bit illusory too so...).

Fargo said the extra $200,000 doesn't count when it comes to stretch goals, it's for covering lost pledges.

 

[Captain Shrek]

What would you prefer? Free camera & 3D?

*sigh*

It's not as if people can hate me any more is it?

Yes.

 

[Horus]

I hate it when they hold something important for the game hostage(MCA) but i'm going pledge anyway.