Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Pre-Release Thread [ALPHA RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[tuluse]

If I'm reading hiver correctly, his 2D/3D hybrid troll idea would be like some JRPGs in that some rooms/areas are static with a fixed camera angle (and can thus support painted details), while other rooms/areas allow you to use the camera and of course have no painted details as a result.

I don't think that would work for an IE-alike, not at all. It needs a unified presentation and world aesthetic.

Ordinarily I would agree that it would be too jarring of an aesthetic change between the two. However, i feel like Numera is going to be weird enough to handle it.

 

[JarlFrank]

JarlFrank said he only knew one kind of hybrid approach, I was pointing out a rather famous example of the opposite.

Edit there's other kinds of hybrids too. 2D sprites in 3D space so you get things like distance. DFA Broken Age is incorporating both 2D and 3D elements into single scenes, no dichotomy between background/foreground.

Yeah but that's an "archaic" style that isn't used anymore since the late 90s. And I don't think they'd go for 3D with sprites cause that'd be incredibly pointless, good sprites are more expensive to animate nowadays than 3D chars.

 

[hiver]

Possibly that is so, but i guess its not bad to explore the possibility.

You are pretty much correct in what i suggest, though ... what i meant is having very important locations, the ones who are significant and would need high details and art representation to be done with 2D backgrounds, while the outside environment and other less significant places can be 3D, where appropriate. For example, The Bloom, the Oasis city and Labyrinth could or should be done in 2D art while some secondary places dont really demand it and can be done beautifully with 3D too.
Its merely a theoretical idea and ive clearly said i do not know if that is feasible or possible.

The only significant hurdle (clear to me as a non-expert) is that in 2D art places the camera would need to be fixed while in others it is not - or doesnt need to be... though it could.

ahem... i am certainly not against the incline, and although naturally, this suggestion may be disliked by both sides, it still has advantages and does argue in favor of 2D background art.

You have no idea what you're talking about (hur dur it has advangtages because I say so) and it's a moronic idea. There.
Now keep yapping about it.

Donkey balls are overthere.
You know what to do.

(if nothing else this suggestion could shave off some votes from 3D threads - godamn it!)

 

[A user named cat]

Ordinarily I would agree that it would be too jarring of an aesthetic change between the two. However, i feel like Numera is going to be weird enough to handle it.

I think it could work too actually. Especially if they mixed in some funky camera angles like say Silent Hill. This game needs weird things like that, as long as they don't hamper exploration/navigation.

 

[Horus]

I'll be waiting until last day to pledge and i will pledge if they are close to 3.5.

Why not do the smart thing and pledge NOW, then reduce your pledge to $1 (or cancel it entirely, not sure if that's possible though) if they don't reach $3.5m?

And come the fuck on, they WILL reach $3.5m, it's ludicrous to even think they won't at this juncture.

I will pledge it with paypal but as i remember you can't take back your pledges with paypal and most importantly i don't want to pledge until they complete wasteland and show me they aren't just all talk.
Don't worry if it's good i will get it as a day 1 purchase.

 

[DragoFireheart]

JarlFrank said he only knew one kind of hybrid approach, I was pointing out a rather famous example of the opposite.

Edit there's other kinds of hybrids too. 2D sprites in 3D space so you get things like distance. DFA Broken Age is incorporating both 2D and 3D elements into single scenes, no dichotomy between background/foreground.

Yeah but that's an "archaic" style that isn't used anymore since the late 90s. And I don't think they'd go for 3D with sprites cause that'd be incredibly pointless, good sprites are more expensive to animate nowadays than 3D chars.

A good compromise might be cel-shaded stuff like from Wind Waker (HD).

Yeah, it looks "kiddy", but that's because of the art direction, not the cel-shading. Just a thought.

 

[hiver]

And you guys thought my suggestion is bad? Huh?

 

[Brother None]

I know I'm being cynical here, and before I say anything more I have no doubt they'll make a good game, but I find their decision of letting people vote on game mechanics rather pathetic. How can you let people vote on what type of combat system, a crucial aspect(presumably) of the game, to be had?

They don't think it's that crucial.

Well, that's perhaps a bit too directly stated. Improving the combat was one of the first things Kevin brought up with me when we started talking about this project months ago. So it is important, but it is important that combat hit specific design and quality goals, without it being vital *how* it hits those goals. That's why we're not going to put it up to an open vote of "suggest anything, whatever", no, Adam and Kevin (and others) will design very specific systems that exactly hit the requirements we have for combat, and only present the packages that work for us up to vote (could be two options, could be three, unlikely to be more). At that point, which one of the two/three is picked is indeed not that crucial.

 

[DragoFireheart]

And you guys thought my suggestion is bad? Huh?

Go ahead and trash my suggestion. I'd rather hear your reasoning rather than watch you act all smug.

 

[Koschey]

And you guys thought my suggestion is bad? Huh?

Two bad suggestions can exist side by side, you know

 

[Blaine]

DragoFireheart

My take: Cel shaded graphics are NOT conducive to a realistically portrayed (in terms of aesthetics), relatively gritty, and serious organo-metallic science fiction setting.

 

[DragoFireheart]

Two bad suggestions can exist side by side, you know

Heh. I wasn't suggesting it was a good idea, just merely a suggestion.

DragoFireheart

My take: Cel shaded graphics are NOT conducive to a realistically portrayed (in terms of aesthetics), organo-metallic science fiction setting.

Then fucking do it in 2D.

 

[Blaine]

Then fucking do it in 2D.

Wait, which side of the argument do you think I'm on? And what part of whose argument do you have a problem with? I'm really not sure, and I thought I'd been doing a decent job of keeping up with this discussion.

 

[DragoFireheart]

Then fucking do it in 2D.

Wait, which side of the argument do you think I'm on? And what part of whose argument do you have a problem with? I'm really not sure, and I thought I'd been doing a decent job of keeping up with this discussion.

You said "realistic".

2d/3d looks like shit. Won't work.
Cel-shaded doesn't do a good job (better for organic). Won't work.

2D is much better looking than 3D when it comes to artistic value in games (typically).

 

[hiver]

Im not being smug at all. i was just joking.

- besides i did explain exactly what i mean. to the best of my knowledge. if nothing else just read the suggestion on uservoice.

 

[Blaine]

DragoFireheart

Okay, but I've always been very solidly in the fully 2D camp. But I think I see why we got confused... I was only critiquing the cel shading idea for the sake of airing my opinion. It wasn't coming from the stance of being a 2D/3D hybrid advocate.

 

[DragoFireheart]

DragoFireheart

Okay, but I've always been very solidly in the fully 2D camp. But I think I see why we got confused... I was only critiquing the cel shading idea for the sake of airing my opinion. It wasn't coming from the stance of being a 2D/3D hybrid advocate.

Well that settles it then.

 

[Kirtai]

Hey, shouldn't we actually wait and see what they have before spending pages and pages arguing about the quality of graphics we haven't even seen yet? This isn't GW Codex after all (or is it? )

 

[hiver]

Hey, shouldn't we actually wait and see -

 

[Jaesun]

Colin McComb ‏@ColinMcComb6m
BTW, we're opening a Fathom in the Labyrinth once we hit 10K Likes on FB (don't know what we spend the Likes on) . https://www.facebook.com/Torment.inXile

 

[Blaine]

(don't know what we spend the Likes on)

Exposure. But he knows that.

 

[Hamster]

Everybody who haven't already voted get your ass out there and do so:
https://torment.uservoice.com/forums/192241-stretch-goals/suggestions/3742526-2d-backrounds-like-p-e

Some retarded faggots started a suggestion for 3d:
https://torment.uservoice.com/forums/192241-stretch-goals/suggestions/3775588-3d-backgrounds-like-w2

 

[Grimlorn]

No that's good. Now we can see the difference between who's voting for 3d and 2d. 2d has over 10 times the votes 3d has.

 

[LeJosh]

I laughed at Voidrax's comment.

And it better have 2D.

 

[Longshanks]

"2D backgrounds" is the top-voted stretch goal, and the third-highest-voted idea period on the Torment Community site.

They're very obviously holding back on purpose, and it's the one turd floating around in an otherwise pleasant punchbowl.

More likely that they're holding back a screenshot for the right moment. PE had the biggest KS finish of any game and the screenshot they released had a lot to do with it. I don't think 2D backgrounds will be the $4M stretch goal.

If they put 2D above that they risk that the strech goal is not funded. And if it becomes clear that the game will not be 2D, many people will lower their pledges. Then say goodbuy in the last spike. It's a thin line.

I don't think it will be a stretch goal at all, is what I was trying to say.

There's really 0 chance that they won't do it now. They have pretty much said they will. With PE going with 2D backgrounds on around the same money and InExile having access to Obsidian's tools, the excuse of "it's too expensive" won't wash.

They'll release a mocked up screen to show how good it looks and kickstart the end-run pledges. No need to have it as a stretch goal.