Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Pre-Release Thread [ALPHA RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Cowboy Moment]

Coin flips, are, of course, completely fair, but I don't think this implies anything about the fairness of "life" in general. To use your own analogy, Agassi, anyone can lose or win a single hand of poker, whether they're a WSOP winner or a halfwit who barely understands the rules. You can play a terrible hand well, and still end up with nothing in the immediate sense. A good player only distinguishes himself over a large number of hands. I suppose this is why the idea of reincarnation is so appealing to some.

Of course, this argument falls heavily on the "nature" side in the nature vs nurture debate. It would probably be more accurate to say that we are the hand, rather than that we are dealt it. Which actually changes a lot in regards to the "fairness" angle.

 

[Jaesun]

Time to go to GD.

 

[Mrowak]

Coin flips, are, of course, completely fair, but I don't think this implies anything about the fairness of "life" in general. To use your own analogy, Agassi, anyone can lose or win a single hand of poker, whether they're a WSOP winner or a halfwit who barely understands the rules. You can play a terrible hand well, and still end up with nothing in the immediate sense. A good player only distinguishes himself over a large number of hands.

Yep. This is exactly the genuine game of poker. Playing through a single instance does not involve real skill - but taken across multiple games it involves real planning. Which is true in both RPG design... and life in general.

And I don't mean here something so rough such as reincarnation. The simple act of learning to set yourself manageable goals and working towards them is the thing. Additionally, it's not that we all have the same objectives or that we have to play a game against one another - there can always be multiple winners.

Time to go to GD.

Oh, come on! It all directly relates to RPG design.

 

[Murk]

Lore check:

Is Gozma Zomg?

 

[Infinitron]

Yes.

 

[Adam Heine]

Adam Heine is among us.

http://www.adamheine.com/search/label/Torment

Nothing gets past the Codex :D

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Mrowak]

Time to go to GD.

Oh, come on! It all directly relates to RPG design.

I made this comment jokingly, but now, when you think about it, stuff like suboptimal results and quest objectives could be a great way to facilitate challenge throughout the game. It would require a totally different approach than traditional - one which would encourage the player to accept not the best outcome of his actions and effectively discourage powergaming in the long run.

Traditional RPGs are pretty binary - there usually are clearly cut "win" and "failure" states. But what if obtaining "win" state caused greater challenge? I mean, that evil overlord would be quick to notice that a bunch of heroes is foiling his plans left and right and send significantly greater forces to deal with the problem (OMG, level-scalling !), which would not only make the subsequent battles more difficult, but also some objectives to be impossible to fulfill (e.g. you can't ambush the overlord, because he knows you are coming).

Of course that design would come with a price - we would have to abandon your typical "power-fantasy" routine, and learn to accept the failure with everything it entails.

 

[Ulminati]

Luck-based games are not impartial.

Do you mean if I do wear a really short skirt I will get better cards than I otherwise would? Damn. And now you do tell me.

No. But if you fail to appease Nuffle, your block dice will come up triple skulls and your star blitzer will get a niggling injury.

 

[Roguey]

"Location:
Chiang Mai, Thailand"

Lesifoere WHITE MAN IN YOUR COUNTRY

KILL

 

[Infinitron]

"Location:
Chiang Mai, Thailand"

Lesifoere WHITE MAN IN YOUR COUNTRY

KILL

He is fulfilling the white man's burden by fostering a bunch of children. Indoctrinating them with the white man's evil ways. How patriarchal.

 

[villain of the story]

To be honest, there couldn't be a worse idea than a "female PC as a stretch goal" for a Kickstarter. It is literally a message to all the gamer women that they are second class, extras, an addition to be included only when a certain condition is met. No amount of explanation or reason can make it feel otherwise. If I were a woman, I would probably donate $1 just to tell them to fuck off in the comments section. In fact I still might do that (and then up my pledge during the last couple hours lol ) Especially considering how males are overrepresented in gaming all the time. If it is all that important, why not make the default character female and add male as a stretch goal instead? Nameless One in PS:T was already male. How does that sound? Legions of neckbeards would cry themselves to sleep, I imagine. Just try to imagine that someone telling you that you are not a priority, that you are a "stretch goal".

I'm disappointed with the decision and the poor reasoning.

 

[evdk]

Pffft, binary genders.

 

[Infinitron]

To be honest, there couldn't be a worse idea than a "female PC as a stretch goal" for a Kickstarter. It is literally a message to all the gamer women that they are second class, extras, an addition to be included only when a certain condition is met. No amount of explanation or reason can make it feel otherwise. If I were a woman, I would probably donate $1 just to tell them to fuck off in the comments section. In fact I still might do that (and then up my pledge during the last couple hours lol ) Especially considering how males are overrepresented in gaming all the time. If it is all that important, why not make the default character female and add male as a stretch goal instead? Nameless One in PS:T was already male. How does that sound? Legions of neckbeards would cry themselves to sleep, I imagine. Just try to imagine that someone telling you that you are not a priority, that you are a "stretch goal".

I'm disappointed with the decision and the poor reasoning.

Actually, it's "additional gender" as a stretch goal. Backers will vote on the first one.

It's true though that it might be better not to go there at all.

EDIT: lol

 

[villain of the story]

What? Butthurt that I wanted to let him know of what I think?

 

[Kirtai]

I will be amused if the default PC is female and the stretch goal is male.

Though it's fascinating to see everyone automatically assume the default would be male, despite Saunders saying they intend to let the backers vote on it.

 

[evdk]

Because unless the poll gets trolled the outcome is pretty much a forgone conclusion.

 

[Infinitron]

What's really fascinating is everyone automatically assuming the sexes will be male and female. Have you forgotten what forum you're on, people?

 

[Kirtai]

Hey, I already complained about not being able to play a bunch of perfectly reasonable, potentially sexless, post-human entities. In this thread no less

mechanical lifeform, advanced bioconstruct or a body stealing AI

 

[potatojohn]

Gender in video games always draws out the braindead pseudo-leftist morons who spend all day doing nothing but complaining.

Devs should just ban women from the game universe, like GSC did in STALKER.

 

[DwarvenFood]

:dicksmoker gender photoshop picture:

fucking Codex Search, how much $$$ will it take to make you work again

 

[evdk]

:dicksmoker gender photoshop picture:

fucking Codex Search, how much $$$ will it take to make you work again

It works... for me

 

[Zeriel]

Dear god, Agassi has really been kicking ass and taking names in this thread.

 

[hiver]

There wont be any voting or female PC as a stretch goal.
Those were just some quick thinking out loud suggestions. Kevin, being a smart dude he is, can easily see very probable bad consequences of such adventures.

Your point about appealing to more players is also a good one. This is true of many things, though, and we need to draw a line to keep the target budget realistic. But you may be right that both genders could be better on the other side of the line.

 

[Ogg]

Trying to refrain myself from posting witches, because know that then thread would collapse like a house made of cards into oblivion and things never will be the same.

http://www.games2girls.com/witch.html

My eyes....the burnin'... please... a goatse to wash them clean!