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Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Pre-Release Thread [ALPHA RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

skuphundaku

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Codex 2012 Codex 2013 MCA Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2 My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
But the standard ye or nay of 'tap it or don't' IS the end-all-be-all of all life. That's the no. 1 biological imperative that govern all living things.

Which can change in a billion years and with entities that defy convention...their romances might not equate to the same thing.
Life has existed on this planet for 3.7 billion years already, and this fundamental biological imperative hasn't changed. Chances are that, if life of any kind is to survive, the biological drive to reproduce will still exist, so, 'tap it or don't' will still exist.

Failing in various ways can influence other things apart from the romance itself. But then, we're not talking just about the romance plot and the point is moot. The romance plot itself can have only two outcomes: success or failure. If it succeeds in more than one way and/or fails in more than one way, then these variations necessarily influence other things/events in the game world, and, as I was saying, we're not talking just about romances anymore, but about the wider C&C. In that case, yes, some of the romance failure states can give you advantages in other areas.

Not just influence other things, the romance can influence the relationship to the NPC in general, and choices could change the nature of it going down the path of inevitable separation. Circumstances outside the relationship can further influence it, creating separate problems. Problems in and of themselves probably do not equate to 'romance path continues or ends', which is too simplistic, though some of them may, whether they're immediately obvious or not. But choices alter the ongoing impression of the NPC, which also should not always be obvious with such shit as numbers flashing across the screen and queues from behavior. Kept entirely in the background, and a more sophisticated gradient than an ascending or descending number, anyway, preferably. Sometimes it 'ends' without even seeing why. Oh, that's frustrating? Too fuckin bad, that's life. Get over it. Play a *character* and see what happens, don't try and game it. Guess your way through.

Unseen variables can create more or less random scenarios to further challenge the Path. Including things simply happening in the greater plot. The path being inevitably doomed, its like a slow attrition. Depending on choices, the circumstances on how it happens can be entirely different, and the aftereffects in different gradients of consequence. In many cases, the consequences coming down from the choices are beneficial, and even the end can have a saving grace, despite the fact the 'romance' part is done, killed. The key to dismissing the win/loss formula is a battery of effects, some good, some bad, some in-between, some hard to even say. In the relationship, in the world, in the NPC, in the PC, etc. The possibilities seem endless to me. Just depends on the designers and how much time is allocated to it.

As a random thought, one interesting conclusion might be with a telepath character, where the PC and they form a permanent mental link/communion (by whatever means, maybe even by accident or outside influence). Perhaps this act alone concludes in their minds that the bond is not what they thought it was. Perhaps they learn this in the exploration. Perhaps they cannot handle it, and after an arduous, scarring ordeal, they find a way to break it, and their once seemingly-promising relationship is entirely shattered on a psychic level, with many different aftereffects of it's own.
You just confirmed what I was saying about romances tightly integrating with the greater C&C of the game, so, in this respect we're on the same page.

But the romance itself, if it lacks both possible outcomes, then it comes across just as a silly gotcha created by bitter omegas.

A matter of taste, as to me, its perfectly natural in a game like this to assign static 'themes' (in this case, tragedy, or, less dramatically, simple relational doom) over characters or relationships. The whole game is arrayed around themes. If the failed romance adds another reflection of the whole, another layer in the onion of the unfolding narrative, it can add something despite completely dodging the 'get it on' phase, or the 'sweetie-pie' stage, whatever...insert non-contributing feel good scenario here.

If I designed this, and someone asked me 'why does it always have to end badly?', I'd just say, 'This is how it's themed. You have many opportunities for consolation prizes along the way, sweetheart.'

Anyway, I know, expanded things into a big pipedream, but ah well, is fun to consider.
The problem with this is that games, being inherently interactive, if you can't win, then you're actively being snubbed by the developer for no other reasoned except that he can. You can enjoy a tragedy in an opera/theater/movie/book, because these are not interactive media, so there is no reason for you to get frustrated. In games, however, if shit happens in cutscenes/when the game takes control away from you and there's nothing you can do about it, even if when you're in control you're the destroyer of worlds/slayer of pussy/etc., then the developer is just lording his control over you, just to show you that he can, which is a dick move and very few would appreciate it.
 

Roguey

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It's high-larious how you guize are so insecure you feel it necessary to censor ideas you disagree with. :smug:

Insecure? No, because we know that inXile won't abide by those ideas in any case.
You sure about that? They hired Tony "Gay Qunari" Evans and Mur "I love Lesifoere" Lafferty. McComb's p. progressive as well.
We're doing it because we're assholes and we want to humiliate the people who post such ideas. :smug:
Making their posts vanish doesn't humiliate them, it's silencing. And you know they're just going to keep making that poll whereas if there was only one, it could be contained.

Why would anyone want to hear her squeaky voice...Also whoever wrote Veronica in FNV should have been fucking hanged. I wonder if Roguey knows who's responsible...
Eric Fenstermaker.
 

Rake

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I find it incredible that everyone keeps on claiming that 2D graphics are superior because they were used in IE games. No you IDIOTS, IE graphics are good because they were done by GOOD artists!!!
P:E is even better but W2 wasn't. I never asked 2D for W2. 3D is perfect for what they were trying to do and it don't looks bad. But the fact is that Shadowrun Returns looks way better with half the budget and P:E will look even better. InXile's artists are good. I don't see why they can't make good 2D backrounds.
Also atmosphere and the backrounds was a huge part of the IE games. In Torment's case it was way more important than the gameplay itself, as the latter wasn't anything special.(dialog's excluded)
And i think that most backers assume by default that ToN will have 2D backrounds. If the game comes out with W2 graphics they will scream bloody murder. After all as publisers have found graphics matter.
IE fan's were never so hardcore to say "gameplay above else-screw the graphics".
And this game's worth will be it's story and it's writting. Story isn't something you can bloat ad infinitum. The game has more than triple the money they asked for. Instead of novellas or MOAR writting, they can spare a few bucks for backrounds.
 

Infinitron

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Making their posts vanish doesn't humiliate them, it's silencing.

Wrong. Since you last logged in, they've posted several complaints about their suggestions being taken down. Those were flagged and taken down too. :smug: The moderators are on our side. :smug:
 

Roguey

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Making their posts vanish doesn't humiliate them, it's silencing.

Wrong. Since you last logged in, they've posted several complaints about their suggestions being taken down. Those were flagged and taken down too. :smug: The moderators are on our side. :smug:
Moderator-approved silencing is still silencing. Better to lock the poll and leave a comment saying "We won't be doing this" than to hide them.
 

Tommy Wiseau

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Can't say I'm too upset about suggestions like 'all-bisexual romances'/'Why can't Numenera be BI????' being taken down. :incline:
 

Hobz

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I don't think moderators are approving the mass flagging. The moderation is more than likely automatic when a subject is flagged enough. Codexers are basically abusing the system because they are scums, but that was to be expected. ;)
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Making their posts vanish doesn't humiliate them, it's silencing.

Wrong. Since you last logged in, they've posted several complaints about their suggestions being taken down. Those were flagged and taken down too. :smug: The moderators are on our side. :smug:
Moderator-approved silencing is still silencing. Better to lock the poll and leave a comment saying "We won't be doing this" than to hide them.

You're forgetting one thing: https://torment.uservoice.com/forums/192236-torment-kickstarter

We’d love to hear your ideas for the Torment Kickstarter. Later, we’ll be setting up forums for ideas on the game – this forum is for thoughts on the Kickstarter itself.

They shouldn't be posting this shit in the first place.

I don't think moderators are approving the mass flagging. The moderation is more than likely automatic when a subject is flagged enough. Codexers are basically abusing the system because they are scums, but that was to be expected.

I'm not so sure. That last one went down really fast. It can't have been flagged very many times.
 

hiver

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Making their posts vanish doesn't humiliate them, it's silencing.

Wrong. Since you last logged in, they've posted several complaints about their suggestions being taken down. Those were flagged and taken down too. :smug: The moderators are on our side. :smug:
Moderator-approved silencing is still silencing. Better to lock the poll and leave a comment saying "We won't be doing this" than to hide them.
Roquey speaks the Truth.
 

Roguey

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winterraptor

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Life has existed on this planet for 3.7 billion years already, and this fundamental biological imperative hasn't changed. Chances are that, if life of any kind is to survive, the biological drive to reproduce will still exist, so, 'tap it or don't' will still exist.

Might be true of some lifeforms, might not of others, and has less meaning for artificial life, which can still desire relationships of various forms.

But all I really have to prove the point for is for individuals, as the NPCs, or even just 1 NPC and the PC can surely be exceptions to the rule. If the PC is by default one way, i.e. biologically-inclined to reproduce, which I'm not sure we know yet (but could assume is likely, I suppose), necessarily - but if they are, a given NPC might be able to change the PC, interfacing with them in their 'way' and thus creating a non-standard scenario in which to monkey with conventions.

Just one indication there is more than one possibility simply through such things as alien relationships, transformations, mind-melds, spiritual connections, etc.

You just confirmed what I was saying about romances tightly integrating with the greater C&C of the game, so, in this respect we're on the same page.

And I think my initial post that started the exchange could have done for better wording, especially the first half of the first sentence. I was really thinking *something* against convention, hence to snub the 'debate', i.e. left field of all sides in the whole 'Romance, Yes or No', i.e. neither, both. And if such were ever pulled off, we know which side would be more butt-hurt over it.

The problem with this is that games, being inherently interactive, if you can't win, then you're actively being snubbed by the developer for no other reasoned except that he can. You can enjoy a tragedy in an opera/theater/movie/book, because these are not interactive media, so there is no reason for you to get frustrated. In games, however, if shit happens in cutscenes/when the game takes control away from you and there's nothing you can do about it, even if when you're in control you're the destroyer of worlds/slayer of pussy/etc., then the developer is just lording his control over you, just to show you that he can, which is a dick move and very few would appreciate it.

Maybe the... 'I'm paying for this' aspect, considering I've GMed tabletop games and derivatives for years off and on, starting 15 years ago, a very interactive enterprise, and some dictation is perfectly fine. In fact, the deeper I got into themes and committing to individual...character....expansion of these themes through events in their lives, the more the players responded and identified with the character. That ultimately comes down to trusting the designer. But I've certainly rigged things to a theme before. Hell, I've had it done to me too, being rigged into a tragedy after a long campaign, and it was pure awesome.

But in the examples and scenarios I mentioned here, I just don't see what it matters if the end result has certain equations taken out, if there are still rewards tangible and intangible and in general a wide array of results. To me it's nitpicking over semantics that the result they got doesn't equate to 'winning the romance'. Especially if it's done well. What you're talking about here is 'railroading', but a free for all sandbox, being the opposite of this, isn't all that great either. Me, I like balance of narration and choice. Some narration is going to be fixed, by necessity, and what can be cut out/ made modular and still tell a story is. This is true of a whole game, and can be true of a smaller game within a game, i.e. a themed quasi-romance doomed for some cruel or 'unfavorable-to-most-romantics' end. To me, anyway.
 

Roguey

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I had a convenient save file and took the time to take screencaps of Tony Evans's gay qunari romance.

7SXGwVp.jpg


Surely certain posters wouldn't dream of using this image to troll, say, all those homophobes on 4chan. That would be horrible.
 

Jaesun

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FeelTheRads

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I don't understand what's going on in those screenshots. Why are they so ugly and why those retarded expressions on their faces? Also the one in blue seems to have a huge dong (I don't need to see this shit, Bioware) and the one in red has boobs????
 

almondblight

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Moderator-approved silencing is still silencing. Better to lock the poll and leave a comment saying "We won't be doing this" than to hide them.

Or just Jaesuning every thread related to romance into one 300+ page megathread that everyone ignores.
 

Abraxas

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I don't think moderators are approving the mass flagging. The moderation is more than likely automatic when a subject is flagged enough. Codexers are basically abusing the system because they are scums, but that was to be expected. ;)

We are using the system in the most efficient manner. Not doing it that way would be LARPing.
 

BobtheTree

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Can't say I'm too upset about suggestions like 'all-bisexual romances'/'Why can't Numenera be BI????' being taken down. :incline:
I always find this kind of demand super shallow, as if the only reason a player would want to have companions in your game is so you could play our your sex fantasies instead of having an interesting relationship with well-rounded characters who have their own per-established personality and sexual preferences they don't just give out because you want to get it on. It's bad writing and it's pandering to the lowest common denominator.
 

FeelTheRads

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Obviously they don't have online "modus" because they can't afford with the current funding.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
The Outlander just now
If we reach $4 million can we get an Enhanced Edition of Planescape Torment made and added to a bunch of tiers? I'd change my pledge to get an Enhanced Edition copy of Planescape Torment.

:hmmm: :hmmm:
 

Diablo169

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Brother None Are you running the PR for this project or is it someone else? Because i'd suggest tapping up the big Youtubers (someone like Totalbiscuit) for developer interviews at some point during the campaign if it hasn't already been considered. They can garner a ton of support.
 

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