Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Thread

[t]

I understand their reasons for not adding stretch goals that require money and effort on their part. Of course, those would be the first to go: Oom, Oasis, cause animations. Crafting, cause it's a lot of work. I understand from the designers perspective.

What I think they don't understand is that WE ARE NOT THEM. We didn't pitch the game as doable with 1M budget, we didn't ask backers for more money so that we can do the things that -- who would have thought -- cost fucking money! I'm sorry, but taking backers' money and then not doing stuff because they require money kind of sounds like you're an idiot.

 

[mastroego]

Yes, scams are sad.

 

[Lurker King]

A quick recompilation of the biggest issues in the game

Updated my list with some of your criticisms.

 

[Lurker King]

I understand their reasons for not adding stretch goals that requires money and effort on their part. Of course, those would be the first to go: Oom, Oasis, cause animations. Crafting, cause it's a lot of work. I understand from the designer perspective.

What I think they don't understand is that WE ARE NOT THEM. We didn't pitch the game as doable with 1M budget, we didn't ask backers for more money so that we can do the things that -- who would have thought -- cost fucking money! I'm sorry, but taking backers' money and then not doing stuff because they require money kind of sounds like you're an idiot.

And I think you don't understand that the kickstarter model is broken. A honest kickstarter pitch that wouldn’t compromise the game should be something like this:

“Hey, we want to make a new game. We can make a decent Torment sequel if you give us money. For a game of this scope we will need at the very least 12 mill, but we will take a gamble if you give us 7 mill. We won’t promise backer rewards because we don’t have the resources of the personal to do this kind of thing properly, and developing a complex cRPG is already a massive task. We won’t promise any strech goals because we can’t promise a game that we don’t have”.

The problem, of course, is that kickstarter is a hype machine that is moved by illusion, not honesty and reasonable plans. They would probably receive 350k with the honest approach, and drop the project.

 

[t]

And I think you don't understand that the kickstarter model is broken. A honest kickstarter pitch that wouldn’t compromise the game should be something like this:

“Hey, we want to make a new game. We can make a decent Torment sequel if you give us money. For a game of this scope we will need at the very least 12 mill, but we will take a gamble if you give us 7 mill. We won’t promise backer rewards because we don’t have the resources of the personal to do this kind of thing properly, and developing a complex cRPG is already a massive task. We won’t promise any strech goals because we can’t promise a game that we don’t have”.

The problem, of course, is that kickstarter is a hype machine that is moved by illusion, not honesty and reasonable plans. They would probably receive 350k with the honest approach, and drop the project.

I do understand, thank you very much. On the kickstarter you get what you can get and not what you need. But the deal is, if you promise something as a developer, it's not my job as a consumer to assess how likely you are to be exaggerating, what other sources of revenue you have, how efficient your company is.

In other words, what bugs me the most is that they go on with marketing speech from the beginning of the campaign through all of the updates until someone notices something is wrong and then they suddenly say "you couldn't have possibly thought this was real, could you?". Well, I could, and I'm the sucker here, but now I am angry. And will try to make you hear that in however way I can.

 

[Lurker King]

I do understand, thank you very much. On the kickstarter you get what you can get and not what you need. But the deal is, if you promise something as a developer, it's not my job as a consumer to assess how likely you are to be exaggerating, what other sources of revenue you have, how efficient your company is.

In other words, what bugs me the most is that they go on with marketing speech from the beginning of the campaign through all of the updates until someone notices something is wrong and then they suddenly say "you couldn't have possibly thought this was real, could you?". Well, I could, and I'm the sucker here, but now I am angry. And will try to make you hear that in however way I can.

Does Fargo has a reputation for being a transparent individual or excellent manager? No, he doesn’t. Does the narrative premise or the setting promised in the kickstarter trailers sound even remotely good or comparable to PS:T? No, they didn’t. Does throwing money at people for a game that doesn’t exist sounds a good bet? No, it doesn’t. Does it make any sense to complain about failed promises if you support the lack of accountability by being part of an irresponsible model? No, it doesn't. The next time you decide to back a game, think twice before you throw your money at developers. The incline will not be brought by hyped gamers throwing money at celebrity developers that don’t care about their target audience, but by developers that are engaged with cRPGs, and do what it takes to deliver a quality game.

 

[Lord Azlan]

Surprising lack of reactivity. Most events happen in the background. Even things as important as the Endless war. Meres as the source of reactivity do not work because the in-game effects are non-existent.

Compare the Endless War with the Blood War

In PST, just one character in one building gives more than everything given in Tides.

Ghysis the Crooked is a squat, hunched old man with broad shoulders and scarred, callused hands of a warrior. An aura of weary despair seems to hang about him.

READY FOR A LECTURE?

• The floating fortresses wove and weaved on human skin
• The planes-wide battlegrounds the Blood War was fought on
• Fiends locking fangs with other fiends
• Baatezu fighting with Tanar'ri
• Nothing you could ever imagine compares, time, numbers, sheer bloodshed, nothing
• Neither winning, he don't think anyone can win
• The biggest stalemate this side of eternity

More?

• The Blood War has been going on damn-near-forever and will keep on going until damn-near-forever gets penned in the Dead Book
• Chaos and Evil (Tanar'ri) are battling Law and Evil (Baatezu). They butcher each other over what they think evil should be
• You can't stop the war, you are a stone in ocean that is a pebble in another ocean which is a stone in another ocean
• Stopping the war would cause the Planes to tumble down
• Lots of baggage rests on the back on the war. The biggest nastiest pack animal on the planes
• KEEP EVIL OUT OF YOUR HEART, do not become a petitioner on the Lower Planes
• Imagine two drunken priests who believe they both know the only way to live. Now make these priests ripped with scales and fangs and horns and a cruel streak -
• How did the war start? Simple, those two met
• They have thousands and thousands of words for hate
• Big arrogant soldiers that think they can serve in the war and make jink. They were like ants running around the heels of dancing gods. Big soldiers? paper soldiers more like. War is a furnace for them

Ghysis shuts his eyes and rubs his temples, "I asked this pillar how I might be freed. How I might escape Baator...and it told me in exchange for the two of my brothers". He is quiet for a moment, biting on his knuckles as if fighting back tears.

"To me...at the time, it was just math"


To me that was a moment unlike nearly all other moments in gaming. And this guy was just a side part. No quests or items. Just this guy trying to make amends..

 

[i.Razor]

Ha ha. Remember when Fargo announced the Numanuma as the game's setting and said that they tried to negotiate with WoTC on Planescape but were dismissed. And then some wizard's guy shown up and said that there was no any negotiating attempt from inXile at all?

Ah, maybe it's for the better after all. What a fiasco...

 

[Lurker King]

Ha ha. Remember when Fargo announced the Numanuma as the game's setting and said that they tried to negotiate with WoTC on Planescape but were dismissed. And then some wizard's guy shown up and said that there was no any negotiating attempt from inXile at all?

Fargo has a superficial understanding of PS:T. He probably thought that this setting was basically the same thing because it also has weird shit, but is much cheaper.

 

[t]

Does it make any sense to complain about failed promises if you support the lack of accountability by being part of an irresponsible model?

It makes sense to me to complain about failed promises at least. I'm not sure if there's no accountability as you say. Sales are affected by popular opinion about the game.

As of other questions, well hindsight is 20/20. We certainly have learned a lot since 2012/2013 era.

 

[Prime Junta]

Does it make any sense to complain about failed promises if you support the lack of accountability by being part of an irresponsible model?

It makes sense to me to complain about failed promises at least. I'm not sure if there's no accountability as you say. Sales are affected by popular opinion about the game.

As of other questions, well hindsight is 20/20. We certainly have learned a lot since 2012/2013 era.

Moreover, most of the big-ticket Kickstarters made a bona fide effort to keep their promises. HBS did it, although it took them a while -- and turned Dragonfall into a standalone game, no less, and a better one than the OC. Obsidian did it, although at the painful cost of spreading everything a little too thin. Larian came close, and where they failed, they were immediately up-front about it, explaining the why and the wherefore. Double Fine fucked up royally out of sheer incompetence. Only inXile went with Baghdad Bob.

Kickstarter is an imperfect model for sure and definitely not the saviour some of us thought it would be -- but neither is it a pure scam or inherently any more flawed than publisher-financed development.

I mean, look at Mass Effect: Prospromeda, for crying out loud.

 

[i.Razor]

Ha ha. Remember when Fargo announced the Numanuma as the game's setting and said that they tried to negotiate with WoTC on Planescape but were dismissed. And then some wizard's guy shown up and said that there was no any negotiating attempt from inXile at all?

Fargo has a superficial understanding of PS:T. He probably thought that this setting was basically the same thing because it also has weird shit, but is much cheaper.

Seems so. Plus he could benefit on Numanuma backers who just gave Monte a half million dollars.

 

[Riso]

That story had a Changing God even back then, although as an actual god rather than a man who discovered a kind of immortality through cloning and consciousness transfer. "He basically fractured," says McComb. "Your job was to go and retrieve his pieces before the Elements of Entropy - the Angel of Entropy became the Sorrow - destroyed them all and wiped out ... the universe." Problem was, "it was too epic", he adds. "It's not just save the world, it's save all of creation." It just wasn't Torment. But then, what was?

Too epic to say. Let's fix it.

You are the Changeless God and the Sorrow is an opposing god who wants to kill and take your power. He attacked you but instead of killing you he splintered you. In your weakened state you now you have to go and piece yourself together before the Sorrow can come and kill you for real. You need to puzzle out who you are and what you are supposed to do because when you wake up you only have a sense of loss and that something is missing. With every splinter you find and absorb you regain memories and powers.

There, now it's a personal mystery story where the world and creation itself is not at risk but only yourself.
Hire me for ideas, I work cheap. (Not really)

 

[Haba]

How many WEEKS since release?
How many patches released?
How many fucking hours I've had to listen to inspiring presence?

Fuck you inEptitude

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Does it make any sense to complain about failed promises if you support the lack of accountability by being part of an irresponsible model?

It makes sense to me to complain about failed promises at least. I'm not sure if there's no accountability as you say. Sales are affected by popular opinion about the game.

As of other questions, well hindsight is 20/20. We certainly have learned a lot since 2012/2013 era.

Moreover, most of the big-ticket Kickstarters made a bona fide effort to keep their promises. HBS did it, although it took them a while -- and turned Dragonfall into a standalone game, no less, and a better one than the OC. Obsidian did it, although at the painful cost of spreading everything a little too thin. Larian came close, and where they failed, they were immediately up-front about it, explaining the why and the wherefore. Double Fine fucked up royally out of sheer incompetence. Only inXile went with Baghdad Bob.

Kickstarter is an imperfect model for sure and definitely not the saviour some of us thought it would be -- but neither is it a pure scam or inherently any more flawed than publisher-financed development.

I mean, look at Mass Effect: Prospromeda, for crying out loud.

Ahem, which stretch goals did Double Fine fail to keep?

 

[Prime Junta]

Ahem, which stretch goals did Double Fine fail to keep?

I ... can't recall.

All I remember is an ocean of butthurt. If they did manage to keep all of them, then more power to them (and it actually strengthens the point I was making ).

 

[Lacrymas]

The butthurt was mostly due to it being a shitty game as far as I recall.

 

[t]

Also episodic release I guess.

 

[Riso]

An episodic bad game easy enough for five year olds to solve by random clicking.

 

[MRY]

Did Double Fine Adventure even have stretch goals?

 

[Lord Andre]

I think we can dispense with this notion that if Inxile had 100 million dollars and 10 years they would make something spectacular.

It's not kickstarter, it's not over-promising, they're just not that good at their job.

To be honest, I really think they gave their best shot, now and with WL2, but they just don't have the touch, the heart is willing but the talent's not there. Sad when you think about it.

 

[an Administrator]

https://forums.inxile-entertainment.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=17506

 

[Lacrymas]

What's even weirder is the fact that you can actually play as a boy or a girl and so far I haven't seen the slightest indication that your sexuality is acknowledged at all.

This is the weirdest comment in there. Do people really think that gender = sexuality? Or that the only quality of gender is sexuality? lol.

 

[Lord Andre]

https://forums.inxile-entertainment.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=17506

Don't remind me of Colin's retarded SJWism. I used to think he was a bro. Liberalism is poison for the creative mind.

 

[TT1]

https://forums.inxile-entertainment.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=17506

Zombra
Global Moderator
Re: Where are the prostitutes?

March 16th, 2017, 1:49 pm

I like to see a nice rack as much as the next guy, but they're not necessary for every story. This story happens to not cover that angle. There would also logically be dentists in the future (and most of us spend more of our lives with dentists than with prostitutes) yet no one is complaining about the lack of dentist NPCs.