Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Thread

[Nael]

It wasn't the most exciting, but it certainly wasn't anywhere near the levels of sheer, agonizing boredom that ToN is.

Its around the same, nothing happens in either game, then they end.
Tho i have heard a few interesting bits from TToN, like a whole place where navigation was CYOA based. PoE never did anything to change gameplay like that, the CYOA bits were too short and fairly inconsequential. Heard this changed in the DLC tho, some day ill probably get to play that.

I was able to finish PoE because the story progressed.

I didn't get any sense of progression in ToN. It was just words and words and words. All of it meaningless nihilistic tripe.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Complaining about boredom in T:TON opening, when Pillars has you finding the berreis for your explosive diarrhea as plot hook.

 

[Nael]

Complaining about boredom in T:TON opening, when Pillars has you finding the berreis for your explosive diarrhea as plot hook.

There just isn't anything more boring than ToN. Maybe a funeral for an ex-girlfriend's stepdad?

 

[Nael]

Again I don't want anyone to get the impression that I thought PoE was some exciting neo-classical cRPG romp. I'm using an example of a game everyone can agree was a snooze fest and saying that ToN is even MORE boring.

Are you people this fucking dense?

 

[Florian Gheorghe]

at 47:20 George Ziets explains that the scope of the game is smaller then Pillars of Eternity but with more reactivity and C&C. That is from the alpha of last year.

 

[Parabalus]

Again I don't want anyone to get the impression that I thought PoE was some exciting neo-classical cRPG romp. I'm using an example of a game everyone can agree was a snooze fest and saying that ToN is even MORE boring.

Are you people this fucking dense?

PoE's story is, even by the most adamant Sawyer hater's standards, on pair with TToN. PoE also has functional combat. You can try and argue these points, but PoE also has the right amount of CONTENT for a 50$ game. TToN is a <18h joke.

 

[Lhynn]

PoE also has functional combat.

No it fucking doesnt, that whore mouth of yours keeps spewing shit.

 

[Gunnar]

PoE's story is, even by the most adamant Sawyer hater's standards, on pair with TToN. PoE also has functional combat. You can try and argue these points, but PoE also has the right amount of CONTENT for a 50$ game. TToN is a <18h joke.

It took me 46 hours, your argument is invalid.

Also PoE's combat and story was inferior to T:ToN, everything you posted is stupid and wrong.

 

[Lord Andre]

PoE's story is, even by the most adamant Sawyer hater's standards, on pair with TToN.

PoE also has functional combat.

You can try and argue these points, but PoE

I dissent.

 

[ga♥]

I surely hope the Codex will never make another poll about the best cRPGs of all time because the fucking horde of decline will surely vote PoE first.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Also yeah, I don't know how you could possibly beat the game in 18h when it took me this much just to get to Bloom, and that's maybe half of the game.

 

[Lhynn]

Also yeah, I don't know how you could possibly beat the game in 18h when it took me this much just to get to Bloom, and that's maybe half of the game.

Maybe you are a bit dimwitted, kinda stupid and a slow reader.

Spoiler

 

[FeelTheRads]

lulz Infinitron still so butthurt about PoE.

Sorry, bro, Sawyer never did any good game. Never.

And the combat in PoE is shittier than the game itself.

 

[Popiel]

Also yeah, I don't know how you could possibly beat the game in 18h when it took me this much just to get to Bloom, and that's maybe half of the game.

It's really easy when you are at least somewhat intelligent and know how to read. First run took me, well, perhaps 20 hours top? More like 18. This game is very short.

 

[Luckmann]

I hate to say it, but I have to agree with Parabalus. You might not like PoE, but the story and storytelling is easily superior to Tides of Numenera, no matter how shit you think Pillars of Eternity is. And no matter how shitty you think PoE:s combat is, it's still working as intended and serves it's purpose, and actually functions.

You might argue that it's a really shitty system, for any number of reasons, sure, but at least it works at it's most basic level. In Numenera, this isn't true, and the combat isn't just bad, it's actively horrible, and you end up making choices just to avoid dealing with it. It is very much like the comparison to Torment - many may argue that Torment had bad combat, but at least the basic system still worked, even if the design was lacking. In Numenera, everything relating to combat is shit. Every single part of it. You simply cannot say the same about Pillars of Eternity and be honest about it.

Pillars of Eternity has issues, but Tides of Numenera is a broken shell on practically every level.

Also yeah, I don't know how you could possibly beat the game in 18h when it took me this much just to get to Bloom, and that's maybe half of the game.

18 hours should be extremely easily doable if you stick to the critical path.

 

[Lhynn]

it's still working as intended and serves it's purpose, and actually functions.

Except it doesnt. MC has no real motivations to keep going, events have no real relation to the character and he just stumbles upon them because the player is exploring the world because thats what the player is suposed to do. The only story ever worth telling in PoE already happened, which is beyond pathetic. The combat doesnt work either, its akward and too fast, you are basically witnessing a series of screenshots and using the same abilities in every fight. Because all the decision making in PoE is frontloaded, you build your party a certain way and thats exactly how it will play from beginning to end.
There are no interesting ways to interact with the world or the narrative either, so its all bad all the time.

And you may make a point that the combat being over so fast means its more passable, but you fight so much trash so many times in a row in poe that its fucking ridiculous.

You might argue that it's a really shitty system, for any number of reasons, sure, but at least it works at it's most basic level. In Numenera, this isn't true, and the combat isn't just bad, it's actively horrible

This is true, however we are separating turds by texture here, like who gives a flying fuck at the end of the day, shit is shit. One may be more digestible than the other, but you shouldnt be eating it in the first place.

It is very much like the comparison to Torment - many may argue that Torment had bad combat, but at least the basic system still worked, even if the design was lacking. In Numenera, everything relating to combat is shit. Every single part of it.

Agree.

You simply cannot say the same about Pillars of Eternity and be honest about it.

I can and i have plenty of times in the past, successfully.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

I hate to say it, but I have to agree with Parabalus. You might not like PoE, but the story and storytelling is easily superior to Tides of Numenera

No. And anyone who claims that has no credibility to talk about writing forever and ever until the end of time.

18 hours should be extremely easily doable if you stick to the critical path.

Er, every RPG ever made can be beaten in 18h or faster if you stick to the critical path.

 

[Gunnar]

18 hours should be extremely easily doable if you stick to the critical path.

Er, every RPG ever made can be beaten in 18h or faster if you stick to the critical path.

If you click through all the dialogues while rolling your eyes, never examine anything or do any sidequests because you hate the game from the second you picked it up, it only takes 18h to complete, and everyone who takes longer must be some kind of dumbass who can't read!

 

[ga♥]

How can you say that the setting/plot of POE is better? I can, with some distress, see your reasonings behind the combat, but story wtf.

TTON problem with the story is JUST how it was executed.

What was even the story in POE? What are your motives for doing what you do in the game? You are a watcher hurr durr because why not and gods don't exist, now take aumanas and guys with fire skulls because yes.

 

[existential_vacuum]

How can you say that the setting/plot of POE is better? I can, with some distress, see your reasonings behind the combat, but story wtf.

TTON problem with the story is JUST how it was executed.

What was even the story in POE? What are your motives for doing what you do in the game? You are a watcher hurr durr because why not and gods don't exist, now take aumanas and guys with fire skulls because yes.

Setting isn't better but plot pacing, while bad, is way better. Yeah, motivation is lost due to LOOK A STRONGHOLD, LET'S BUILD A WALL AND GO EXPLORE THAT VILLAGE, but at least it wasn't all that random and some the companions were actually really good.
The info about the player, Leaden Key, Thaos, animancy and more is presented as you progress the plot. Not much, but it is spaced in a good way.

In TToN you just get LOREDUMP, FIX RESONANCE CHAMBER, FIND HER, FIND HIM, PLOTTWIST, FIND HER, FETCH THIS, RESCUE HER/HIM, PLOTTWIST, LOREDUMP, PLOTTWIST, THE END.

The "gods don't exist" is way better twist than anything in TToN because the whole 3 act is devoted to appleasing the gods (aka to what's happening).

PoE is still mediocre in many ways, but wins as a less shitty game.

 

[Popiel]

Er, every RPG ever made can be beaten in 18h or faster if you stick to the critical path.

I did almost every single one side quest in this shit of a game. Really. All I didn't do was a plot with folks on a spaceship, and I obviously didn't care about all companions, but aside from that - I did all. I can show you my Steam achievements if you want proof. Still needed 18 hours. Read more books and you'll see how fast you can go through video game prose. They are like butter, I read all these walls of text instantly. I consume books in shelfs, so go figure.

And yes. PoE can be described as mediocre game, and by virtue of being mediocre wins with T:ToN on all fields. Even fucking setting is much more interesting, and that says a lot about both PoE and Numanuma.

As time passed I came to realization that this game is nothing. Numenera is a game about nothing, its themes are weak and shallow, never truly explored in depth and ham-fisted into your eye sockets with a hammer. Something about identity, something about existential status of a unit in a world, something about things, but holy cow, this is all so stupid, juvenile and boring. This game has no memorable characters aside from Erritis and some NPCs, but this is all so random. I care nothing about this game and I do not think about it at all, aside from time like this, and that’s the worst offender - PoE at least made me think about it once in a while (mainly thanks to Thaos).

EDIT: And don't even make me start on companions. PoE ones shit a metric ton of T:ToNs ones (sorry Avellone, still loving your Erritis).

 

[Lord Andre]

Fuck PoE, I want to talk about nuTorment.

How are the companions this shit ? Didn't they claim they did a lot of hocus-pocus and used the word "deep" and "interaction" a lot ?

Is making ok companions like a lost art or something ? Last game with ok companions was KOTOR2 for fuck's sake...

 

[Popiel]

They are this shit because writers lack imagination. Like they just are barren. Callistege is the worst offender most probably. This woman exists simultaneously in many different dimensions for fucks sake and they do nothing with her. Nothing. Nothing like a multiple personality disorder, which would be nice, no new quest options related to this, her writing is, I bet, most standard out of all characters. This is offending. This is stupid, boring and shitty. Erritis is fun and nice, but his gimmick is sort of a small deal. Rhin is okay, but just barely. The rest? Tybir? Don’t make me laugh.

And about KotOR2. Remember G0-T0? This charmin' fella is by himself much more interesting and much better written than all of Numas crew.

 

[Parabalus]

It took me 46 hours, your argument is invalid.

Also PoE's combat and story was inferior to T:ToN, everything you posted is stupid and wrong.

If you click through all the dialogues while rolling your eyes, never examine anything or do any sidequests because you hate the game from the second you picked it up, it only takes 18h to complete, and everyone who takes longer must be some kind of dumbass who can't read!

18 hours should be extremely easily doable if you stick to the critical path.

I did every single side quest (including exploring 50 tombs for Tantalum, that was the game's highlight for me), I even found the combat fun (not good, just fun oneshoting everything with Maelstorm). Everybody overkilled max XP by several hundred, except Rhin who was about exact, so I doubt I missed anything major. Only thing I "missed" was Mry's Mere, because I did the tombs in 25+25 chunks, but that has exactly 0 bearing on the actual resolution.

I don't see how 46 hours is possible unless you did the long Crises like 5-6 times (joke's on you, it's pointless) to save everyone, that's almost triple my time. Maybe if you hit a blunt after every line of dialogue to better ponder its (lack of) wisdom.

...

Think what you will about PoE (hence the argue part), but at least it doesn't boil down to clicking on a no friendly fire AoE esotery and dunking everything.

Fuck PoE, I want to talk about nuTorment.

How are the companions this shit ? Didn't they claim they did a lot of hocus-pocus and used the word "deep" and "interaction" a lot ?

Is making ok companions like a lost art or something ? Last game with ok companions was KOTOR2 for fuck's sake...

MotB came out after Kotor2, you didn't like them?

I think the decline happened because everybody was trying to copy the Bioware model of a personal quest for every companion - almost all games in the last decade have had them. Kotor2, Motb and PS:T had no such thing, making them more interwoven with everything else. Also what Popiel , people are simply thrash.

 

[Lord Andre]

Like they just are barren.

Yep, that's the word - barren.

Even MCA's Erritis only stands out because he's running the special olympics. Put him next to HK-40 and he's blown out of the water.

Rhin is the only one I don't hate yet. Some will say it's blatant daddy simulator or emotional manipulation or whatever but hey - at least it works...