Warhammer Total War: Warhammer 2

[copebot]

Eshin is dangerous more because of the geography of the region combined with high elven inability to use the underway. They just have the capacity to bounce around the map. If you ever get caught vulnerable to an ambush attack, you can lose the stack. Overall high elves have a pretty easy time with Skaven and so do dark elves. The high elf vs. orc matchup is harsher because you won't have AP missiles as HElfs until you get some sisters.

 

[Fedora Master]

Grombrindal + Engineer gives you like +75% movement range. Noice.

 

[Average Manatee]

Movement range is actually the strongest modifier in the game once you've got decent quality and replenishment rate. Very nice.

 

[Nathir]

That's nice and all, but what about updating Warriors to Chaos to not be shit and give them the same Horde mechanic the Beastmen use now? And isn't Norsca crap as well?

I don't think Chaos are shit at all. Their current campaign is quite fun and really easy. And all their lords are basically one-man armies. Or do you mean they need a BM level-update with a ton of extra resources/tech upgrades/mechanics etc. to the point they become really silly really fast.

Norsca is probably the hardest campaign in the game imo. The start is incredibly hard, your economy is shit, you can't defend settlements... It's a slog. Atleast endgame you get one of the strongest doomstacks in Mammoth spam.

Anyway, I finished the Thorek vortex campaign today. Never played dwarfs before, was fun.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

That's nice and all, but what about updating Warriors to Chaos to not be shit and give them the same Horde mechanic the Beastmen use now? And isn't Norsca crap as well?

I don't think Chaos are shit at all. Their current campaign is quite fun and really easy. And all their lords are basically one-man armies. Or do you mean they need a BM level-update with a ton of extra resources/tech upgrades/mechanics etc. to the point they become really silly really fast.

Norsca is probably the hardest campaign in the game imo. The start is incredibly hard, your economy is shit, you can't defend settlements... It's a slog. Atleast endgame you get one of the strongest doomstacks in Mammoth spam.

Anyway, I finished the Thorek vortex campaign today. Never played dwarfs before, was fun.

Then why is the AI Chaos Invasion such a joke? In warhammer 1 they were an actual threat, in warhammer 2 they barely cause a dent against the Empire.

 

[Average Manatee]

The actual chaos invasion (not the prequels) is pretty big if you set it to max strength. But that's like turn 150 I think? It's rare for campaigns to go on that long.

Also it should be noted that there's a lot, lore more settlements across the map in WH2 mortal empires now compared to WH1. If ordertide occurs and the whole map is united then chaos has trouble. Also higher difficulties will favor AIs able to hold out against the chaos invasion. I assume that if you set difficulty to normal and chaos invasion difficulty to legendary that chaos would easily wipe the map.

 

[Dwarvophile]

That's nice and all, but what about updating Warriors to Chaos to not be shit and give them the same Horde mechanic the Beastmen use now? And isn't Norsca crap as well?

I don't think Chaos are shit at all. Their current campaign is quite fun and really easy. And all their lords are basically one-man armies. Or do you mean they need a BM level-update with a ton of extra resources/tech upgrades/mechanics etc. to the point they become really silly really fast.

Norsca is probably the hardest campaign in the game imo. The start is incredibly hard, your economy is shit, you can't defend settlements... It's a slog. Atleast endgame you get one of the strongest doomstacks in Mammoth spam.

Anyway, I finished the Thorek vortex campaign today. Never played dwarfs before, was fun.

Then why is the AI Chaos Invasion such a joke? In warhammer 1 they were an actual threat, in warhammer 2 they barely cause a dent against the Empire.

If you want a more deadly chaos invasion you can try this mod :
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1470815758

I don't know much about Warhammer's lore, but haven't chaos invasion always been stopped in Kislev anyway ?

What might spice up things would be stronger AI beastmen factions ?

 

[Nathir]

That's nice and all, but what about updating Warriors to Chaos to not be shit and give them the same Horde mechanic the Beastmen use now? And isn't Norsca crap as well?

I don't think Chaos are shit at all. Their current campaign is quite fun and really easy. And all their lords are basically one-man armies. Or do you mean they need a BM level-update with a ton of extra resources/tech upgrades/mechanics etc. to the point they become really silly really fast.

Norsca is probably the hardest campaign in the game imo. The start is incredibly hard, your economy is shit, you can't defend settlements... It's a slog. Atleast endgame you get one of the strongest doomstacks in Mammoth spam.

Anyway, I finished the Thorek vortex campaign today. Never played dwarfs before, was fun.

Then why is the AI Chaos Invasion such a joke? In warhammer 1 they were an actual threat, in warhammer 2 they barely cause a dent against the Empire.

Well I wasn't talking about AI, but about the player using the faction. There are certain AI factions that never amount to anything, and others which are always top 5. I don't know how it works. But WoC usually face off against Empire. And I am not sure but I believe Empire AR is busted. Full stacks of spearman/crossbowmen always do well against way better armies in AR.

 

[Dwarvophile]

Bought the DLC just to realize I don't like beastmen. They are ugly, disgusting and unintelligible. I'd like them better as BBQ than as a playable faction. Their horde system looks nice though, would like to see something similar implemented for Chaos.

They seem to weight more as AI faction though, which is nice, because they were really irrelevant until now.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Bought the DLC just to realize I don't like beastmen. They are ugly, disgusting and unintelligible. I'd like them better as BBQ than as a playable faction. Their horde system looks nice though, would like to see something similar implemented for Chaos.

They were a lost worse before the update.
If you want the True Beastman Experience, play them in Warhammer 1.

 

[Dwarvophile]

Bought the DLC just to realize I don't like beastmen. They are ugly, disgusting and unintelligible. I'd like them better as BBQ than as a playable faction. Their horde system looks nice though, would like to see something similar implemented for Chaos.

They were a lost worse before the update.
If you want the True Beastman Experience, play them in Warhammer 1.

Do you mean the mini-campaign ?

Never thought of going back to Warhammer 1 frankly. But I miss the lighting. It's shit in TW2.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Bought the DLC just to realize I don't like beastmen. They are ugly, disgusting and unintelligible. I'd like them better as BBQ than as a playable faction. Their horde system looks nice though, would like to see something similar implemented for Chaos.

They were a lost worse before the update.
If you want the True Beastman Experience, play them in Warhammer 1.

Do you mean the mini-campaign ?

Never thought of going back to Warhammer 1 frankly. But I miss the lighting. It's shit in TW2.

And the proper campaign.
Eye for an Eye or whatever it's called actually felt better to play than the full campaign. Map is pretty cool too.

 

[Fedora Master]

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

How the hell am I supposed to fight Ironbreakers as Dark Elves? There's nothing I can use against them as a frontline because of their fucking grenades. They are also spamming Organ Guns and just camping with their gunline. It's turning into a real slog and the frustrating thing is that I nearly had the Dwarfs beat and then suddenly they started pulling stacks out of their arses.
Also the fact that the Chaos Invasion only screws over Dark Elves and just tickles the Empire is fucking retarded.

 

[Average Manatee]

Anything fast to get into melee with them before they throw grenades would work. But they are one of the strongest frontline units in the game so fighting them in melee is generally a bad idea. Dark elves have tons of ranged AP damage, use that. Some Hydras or magic would also work.

 

[Lone Wolf]

You are uniquely suited to dealing with them as the D Elves, due to the quantity and quality of armour piercing at your disposal.

Firstly, your Darkshards/Shades are compelling options. If the counter is Dwarven artillery, you need to address that with your skirmish cavalry or flying units. Ironbreakers are so immobile that you can dance around them and pull them where you want them to go. The only truly bad scenario there is insisting on taking them head-on, for which they are purpose-built.

 

[Fedora Master]

Even then, I'd say a hydra might give them some pause.

 

[Maculo]

How the hell am I supposed to fight Ironbreakers as Dark Elves? There's nothing I can use against them as a frontline because of their fucking grenades. They are also spamming Organ Guns and just camping with their gunline. It's turning into a real slog and the frustrating thing is that I nearly had the Dwarfs beat and then suddenly they started pulling stacks out of their arses.
Also the fact that the Chaos Invasion only screws over Dark Elves and just tickles the Empire is fucking retarded.

In one Malus Me campaign I had success with armies composed 2 hydras and the rest as shades (well, other than the lord, artillery, and heroes). I vanguard deployed the shades to be in range of the dwarven line at the start of the battle and focused on the artillery. Once the artillery was dead, I ran the shades back across the map to where Malus, hydras, heroes, etc. were waiting. At least then, the slow dwarven AI would trickle in and get killed. Not sure how well it would work with the new dwarven runes.

 

[copebot]

Shade spam, magic (they're dwarves but hey, still does damage), hydras, death hags, other melee heroes, black dragons -- all that stuff should be able to kill ironbreakers. Normal dark elf melee infantry is just not gonna have a great time against dwarfs. Use your black ark abilities against their artillery to blow up the weapons and their crews. Overall dwarfs are a tough matchup for any elf faction.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Shade spam, magic (they're dwarves but hey, still does damage), hydras, death hags, other melee heroes, black dragons -- all that stuff should be able to kill ironbreakers. Normal dark elf melee infantry is just not gonna have a great time against dwarfs. Use your black ark abilities against their artillery to blow up the weapons and their crews. Overall dwarfs are a tough matchup for any elf faction.

Can't use the Black Arks in the badlands :/
That's the thing that's really killing me - even if I win the battle I take so much damage that I have fall back and re-recruit everything because Malus reduces ALL lords' replenishment by 60% and I have to fight in a mountain range which takes bloody ages.
It's an absolutely terrible area for Dark Elves to be in.
In theory I should be able to beat dwarfs, but their organ gun and quarrelers melt any fast unit that gets close and they are protected by melee. Hydras do perform wonderfully but they take three turns to recruit , they have expensive upkeep and I need to be able to apply pressure to multiple fronts because of the mountain range. Also the dwarfs are spamming slayers. Which isn't too bad but it acts as a distraction for the Ironbreakers to be bastards and ties up my ranged units.
Oh, and the Empire is attacking me from the North because they decided to conquer the East. Because Chaos is a fucking joke who can't do their one job.
So I have no replenishment, no immediate recruitment options, no black arks, no ability to actually force project because the supply line mechanic is fucking stupid and I have to fight on multiple fronts. I don't think CA really thought Malus's Mortal Empires start through.

Tactically it's not too bad, but logistically it's a terror because I just can't afford taking heavy losses against artillery and grenades.
I guess I'll try recruiting more shades, but I noticed they are a little squishy against Dwarf quarellers, and sometimes they field 4 of the fuckers.

How the hell am I supposed to fight Ironbreakers as Dark Elves? There's nothing I can use against them as a frontline because of their fucking grenades. They are also spamming Organ Guns and just camping with their gunline. It's turning into a real slog and the frustrating thing is that I nearly had the Dwarfs beat and then suddenly they started pulling stacks out of their arses.
Also the fact that the Chaos Invasion only screws over Dark Elves and just tickles the Empire is fucking retarded.

In one Malus Me campaign I had success with armies composed 2 hydras and the rest as shades (well, other than the lord, artillery, and heroes). I vanguard deployed the shades to be in range of the dwarven line at the start of the battle and focused on the artillery. Once the artillery was dead, I ran the shades back across the map to where Malus, hydras, heroes, etc. were waiting. At least then, the slow dwarven AI would trickle in and get killed. Not sure how well it would work with the new dwarven runes.

How did you deal with replenishment and economy? I sold Hag Greaf at the start and the north is a wasteland because of Chaos.

 

[Maculo]

I played the Malus campaign several times, but those playthroughs were pre Imrik, Greenskin buff, and dwarf buff. I may try it again soon.

Malus is a weird campaign, because those whisper quests are random and yet can make a huge difference, such as Urial (-20% to construction costs) and the life steal dagger.

I used Malus as a tarpit (don’t put him on Spite), spammed Darkshards (shades ASAP), casted magic over top Malus, and used tzarkan if Malus ever got low. After I leveled Malus and a mage hero up enough, I could go several battles without needing to worry about replenishment and somewhat ignored the sanity meter. Otherwise, I always kept Hag Graef.

Right now, I think you can keep Hag Graef and spam potions to level it to tier 3+ fast, because of the boost to population.

 

[Parabalus]

You can waste all their ammo by dodging with a single unit.

Very effective with e.g. Morathi's hydra to clear out Alith's ranged stacks.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

You can waste all their ammo by dodging with a single unit.

Very effective with e.g. Morathi's hydra to clear out Alith's ranged stacks.

You know I tried that with Hellebron's Manticore and found that Organ guns had really good accuracy. They can also drop her health pretty quick. After that I kind of gave up using that cheese tactic.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

I played the Malus campaign several times, but those playthroughs were pre Imrik, Greenskin buff, and dwarf buff. I may try it again soon.

Malus is a weird campaign, because those whisper quests are random and yet can make a huge difference, such as Urial (-20% to construction costs) and the life steal dagger.

I used Malus as a tarpit (don’t put him on Spite), spammed Darkshards (shades ASAP), casted magic over top Malus, and used tzarkan if Malus ever got low. After I leveled Malus and a mage hero up enough, I could go several battles without needing to worry about replenishment and somewhat ignored the sanity meter. Otherwise, I always kept Hag Graef.

Right now, I think you can keep Hag Graef and spam potions to level it to tier 3+ fast, because of the boost to population.

The whispers are cool, but some of the requirements are pretty obscene. One of them is kill 30k enemies within 20 turns. I don't see how you can do that in a mountain range where it takes like 4 turns to get anywhere.

 

[copebot]

Shade spam, magic (they're dwarves but hey, still does damage), hydras, death hags, other melee heroes, black dragons -- all that stuff should be able to kill ironbreakers. Normal dark elf melee infantry is just not gonna have a great time against dwarfs. Use your black ark abilities against their artillery to blow up the weapons and their crews. Overall dwarfs are a tough matchup for any elf faction.

Can't use the Black Arks in the badlands :/
That's the thing that's really killing me - even if I win the battle I take so much damage that I have fall back and re-recruit everything because Malus reduces ALL lords' replenishment by 60% and I have to fight in a mountain range which takes bloody ages.
It's an absolutely terrible area for Dark Elves to be in.
In theory I should be able to beat dwarfs, but their organ gun and quarrelers melt any fast unit that gets close and they are protected by melee. Hydras do perform wonderfully but they take three turns to recruit , they have expensive upkeep and I need to be able to apply pressure to multiple fronts because of the mountain range. Also the dwarfs are spamming slayers. Which isn't too bad but it acts as a distraction for the Ironbreakers to be bastards and ties up my ranged units.
Oh, and the Empire is attacking me from the North because they decided to conquer the East. Because Chaos is a fucking joke who can't do their one job.
So I have no replenishment, no immediate recruitment options, no black arks, no ability to actually force project because the supply line mechanic is fucking stupid and I have to fight on multiple fronts. I don't think CA really thought Malus's Mortal Empires start through.

Tactically it's not too bad, but logistically it's a terror because I just can't afford taking heavy losses against artillery and grenades.
I guess I'll try recruiting more shades, but I noticed they are a little squishy against Dwarf quarellers, and sometimes they field 4 of the fuckers.

How the hell am I supposed to fight Ironbreakers as Dark Elves? There's nothing I can use against them as a frontline because of their fucking grenades. They are also spamming Organ Guns and just camping with their gunline. It's turning into a real slog and the frustrating thing is that I nearly had the Dwarfs beat and then suddenly they started pulling stacks out of their arses.
Also the fact that the Chaos Invasion only screws over Dark Elves and just tickles the Empire is fucking retarded.

In one Malus Me campaign I had success with armies composed 2 hydras and the rest as shades (well, other than the lord, artillery, and heroes). I vanguard deployed the shades to be in range of the dwarven line at the start of the battle and focused on the artillery. Once the artillery was dead, I ran the shades back across the map to where Malus, hydras, heroes, etc. were waiting. At least then, the slow dwarven AI would trickle in and get killed. Not sure how well it would work with the new dwarven runes.

How did you deal with replenishment and economy? I sold Hag Greaf at the start and the north is a wasteland because of Chaos.

My opinion is that you should not push west of Crookback Mountain until your economy is very powerful. Even though it has some desert provinces, it's going to be more defensible for you to conquer the coastal regions south-southwest-west of the Dragon Isles all the way to Karak Zorn, and then to crawl north up the World's Edge mountains without pushing west to the Badlands. It sounds like you are strung out too far. The Dark Elves don't benefit that much from additional territory; they build tall rather than wide. Malus' mechanics might be making you try to go farther than you really need to. Fighting on multiple fronts on the offensive is something you generally want to avoid doing as any faction. What I always do when I have too many enemies is either to defend until one enemy gives up abusing ambush stance or to defend on one front and to push on another front until I can unify my stacks and push in a single direction. This method has served me well even on completely apeshit legendary difficulty campaigns.

Unlike with most factions, just winning battles as dark elves benefits your economy quite a lot even if you are gaining no territory. It should take a long time for you to max out slaves even in just 2 provinces, and until you have maxxed slaves there isn't that much of a reason to conquer a lot of territory other than to raise your agent caps.

Once you get into the mess around Karak Eight Peaks it's just going to be nightmarish fighting underway factions. You need lots and lots of force to push out at least on VH/Legendary campaign difficulty in that region. Makes me wanna start a Malus campaign actually with all the changes.