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Warhammer Total War: Warhammer III

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
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Pathfinder: Wrath
Not true at all, Shithammer is not the only Warscape game. In pre-Rome 2 games guns where nothing like bows, just load Empire and pair Indian bowmen against any Line Infantry and see for yourself.
Yes, while this is true, I'm willing to bet the code is so garbled now they can't recreate Shogun 2 or Empire-style gun units. I'm also 99% sure gun units in Warhammer are archers behind the scenes.
 

Fedora Master

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Edgy
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Warscape can't handle shooting, so no.
Shooting guns is the only thing Warscape can handle what are you talking about.
Not entirely true. The problems with guns in this engine is that behind the scene they are arrows and units shoot through each other.
Not true at all, Shithammer is not the only Warscape game. In pre-Rome 2 games guns where nothing like bows, just load Empire and pair Indian bowmen against any Line Infantry and see for yourself.
You mean the Empire that doesn't fucking work? The one that can't even do fire by rank? That Empire?
 

Gromoer

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They could feasibly make a few changes to the Warscape Engine to allow it to run 40k battles. People are so hungry for a largescale 40k battle simulator that it wouldn't take much.

A few Imperial Guard regiments, Orks, Chaos cultists. Add in spess mahrines and their spikey counterparts for the second installment. Additional races further down the line.

Tone it down with the pricing, set it at $40 USD or less. Let people know the campaign is more limited in scope.

This is the reskin they should've been working on tbh.
Yeah let‘s make banging your mum a Total War as well.

jk man

:love:
 

Tyranicon

A Memory of Eternity
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It's a stupid argument and I apologize for bringing it up because there's clearly nothing that will convince CA to move on from an ancient engine that's never worked well, has a ton of so-called technical debt, and is generally hated by everyone.

I just wish there was a largescale 40k game in the style of Total War. It'll sell really good and it's what everyone wants.

Makes sense we won't get it though.
 

Gromoer

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It's a stupid argument and I apologize for bringing it up because there's clearly nothing that will convince CA to move on from an ancient engine that's never worked well, has a ton of so-called technical debt, and is generally hated by everyone.

I just wish there was a largescale 40k game in the style of Total War. It'll sell really good and it's what everyone wants.

Makes sense we won't get it though.
We may get something at some point or not, but why making it a fucking Total War that is specifically tailored to simulate big regiments engaged in melee combat? 40k begs for lesser scale, something squad based or similar. Think DoW DC but with more elaborate mechanics and larger scale everything. Wanting it to be TW is especially puzzling now when CA proved to be incapable of making fun games anymore.
 

Sunri

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There is no reason to change engine and go for 40k tolkien estate is whoring ip right now they could reskin Warhammer to lotro and get ez mony without effort
 

Tyranicon

A Memory of Eternity
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It's a stupid argument and I apologize for bringing it up because there's clearly nothing that will convince CA to move on from an ancient engine that's never worked well, has a ton of so-called technical debt, and is generally hated by everyone.

I just wish there was a largescale 40k game in the style of Total War. It'll sell really good and it's what everyone wants.

Makes sense we won't get it though.
We may get something at some point or not, but why making it a fucking Total War that is specifically tailored to simulate big regiments engaged in melee combat? 40k begs for lesser scale, something squad based or similar. Think DoW DC but with more elaborate mechanics and larger scale everything. Wanting it to be TW is especially puzzling now when CA proved to be incapable of making fun games anymore.

I don't have faith that CA will be able to deliver, but there's never a better time for it than now.

40k is the pie in the sky game for the TW community for years. People would absolutely go apeshit and forgive CA for all their retardation if they think a good 40k TW game is coming out.

Plus
  • They already have a connection with Games Workshop and are more likely to get licensing
  • 40k is even more massive scale than warhammer fantasy by a significant margin outside of elite armies like Space Marines
  • It is the natural continuation of Total Warhammer now that they've run out of ideas
  • GW is clearly more interested in additional prospects for 40k (fantasy is basically discontinued and replaced by Age of Sigmar)

All it takes is significant changes to the engine or using something else entirely. Which also happens to be the reason why nobody expects anything.
 

BlackAdderBG

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Not true at all, Shithammer is not the only Warscape game. In pre-Rome 2 games guns where nothing like bows, just load Empire and pair Indian bowmen against any Line Infantry and see for yourself.
Yes, while this is true, I'm willing to bet the code is so garbled now they can't recreate Shogun 2 or Empire-style gun units. I'm also 99% sure gun units in Warhammer are archers behind the scenes.

True, but that has little to do with the engine itself and more to do with how lazy and bad CA is. The engine talk is diversion from the actual design problems that are ten times more important than "code debt". There is tons of games that use terrible engines and still manage to be good well designed games and vice versa.
 

Jaedar

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Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Warscape can't handle shooting, so no.
What?
Total warhams has: rifles, artillery, flamers, grenades (only dropped from the sky though) and cannons. You may argue these are not implemented properly but I haven't seen many complaints so it's probably good enough for 40k.

The only issue I actually see for 40k is that it's a bit boring if you set it on a single planet, and going for planets=settlements and space=map has it's own set of problems. And flying units I guess, planes don't look good hovering.
 

Lacrymas

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Pathfinder: Wrath
Gun units behaving strangely is one of the top complaints people have when it comes to battles.
 

InD_ImaginE

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Pathfinder: Wrath
Gun units are definitely not Archers as you can't shoot through your own units. That being said they are not "in formation" in the newer games so a singular unit (compromising of 100 gunmen) just shoots together. You need clear LoS (including Z axis/elevation) to shoot guns/cannons.

AI bypasses this during one of the patches? 3.0? Where their guns/canon can shoot through their unit because expecting CA to code their AI properly to use them is too much.

This implies the limitation on firing and LoS is not embeded to the unit and might be script based (and thus not properly implemented) but they are really not archers, from player perspective.
 

Zboj Lamignat

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Messages
5,491
As someone who is not a fan and didn't even play most of the recent titles, it's interesting to see that pretty much 100% of REEEE and screeching is focused on the battles when the "strategic" layer is imo a much bigger clusterfuck and in way more need of saving. This leads me to believe that most people don't really care about it much. Which then leads me to repeat the point I've already made some time ago: a potentially interesting way for them to branch out and try regaining some composure would be to drop the pretense of making strategy games, focus 100% on tactical battles and try making a Dark Omen-like. I'd rate their chance of success at a generous 0%, but something tells me this would have the potential to turn out as a failure that'd be objectively better than all their recent successes.

And honestly, even getting something a bit more inclined than Mark of Chaos (super low bar to clear) would still be p cool.
 

InD_ImaginE

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Pathfinder: Wrath
As someone who is not a fan and didn't even play most of the recent titles, it's interesting to see that pretty much 100% of REEEE and screeching is focused on the battles when the "strategic" layer is imo a much bigger clusterfuck and in way more need of saving.

Not really. The reason we need bandai AI cheating gazzilion of resource and and pop army out of their ass is also a strategic layer problem. It's not even complex either.

Free pathing is one of the biggest reason AI sucks in the strategic layer. And the bigger the map the dumber the AI gets (there is mod for TW3 that expands the IE maps and AI are noticeably dumber there)
 

thesecret1

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Jun 30, 2019
Messages
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As someone who is not a fan and didn't even play most of the recent titles, it's interesting to see that pretty much 100% of REEEE and screeching is focused on the battles when the "strategic" layer is imo a much bigger clusterfuck and in way more need of saving. This leads me to believe that most people don't really care about it much. Which then leads me to repeat the point I've already made some time ago: a potentially interesting way for them to branch out and try regaining some composure would be to drop the pretense of making strategy games, focus 100% on tactical battles and try making a Dark Omen-like. I'd rate their chance of success at a generous 0%, but something tells me this would have the potential to turn out as a failure that'd be objectively better than all their recent successes.

And honestly, even getting something a bit more inclined than Mark of Chaos (super low bar to clear) would still be p cool.
The battles are what makes TW special and fills their niche. If you just want the campaign map, you're better served playing some paradox title and the like – TW doesn't really stick out above the competition in that regard.

That's not to say that the campaign isn't important for the overall game, but it's the battles that people come for (well, came for, but not anymore, clearly), and what makes them distinctive from other grand strategy developers. Fixing the campaign bit first is also putting the cart before the horse – the campaign's design should make sure it plays to the strength of battles, not ignore the battle layer as something completely separate (and to design around that, one should have good battles first).
 

BlackAdderBG

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Free pathing is one of the biggest reason AI sucks in the strategic layer.
Yup. And there is absolutely zero chance this will be ever addressed. People that understand why 2d map was superior are probably around 5 and we are two of them. Even the biggest critics of post Empire/Rome2 praise the 3d campaign map, it's a lost cause.
 

Gromoer

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Well my biggest complaint is how arrows lost their visual impact after Shogun 2. It’s like their velocity became linear and their overall speed has decreased. They’ve become so lame, so that CA had to add these awful white trails.
 

AdamReith

Magister
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Oct 21, 2019
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Thrown weapons also got handled very dubiously in the later installments.

We went from an intimidating hail of pila causing havoc in the enemy ranks to them basically being short range arrows that whistle through the air like a nerf ball.
 

Elttharion

Learned
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Jan 10, 2023
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According to Bellular CA canceled internally and quietly canceled Three Kingdoms 2 at the beginning of 2022 and they never said anything public about this. What the fuck are their devs even doing? Hyenas was apparently a separated team, Sofia was on Pharao and there is an skeleton crew on Warhammer 3. What about the rest? IIRC they have almost 900 hundred employees. Most people believed they had two other teams, one on 3K2 and another on a major Total War Game (40k, Med 3 or Empire 2, etc) that started full production around the launch of Warhammer 3 or a little bit earlier. I heard some people say youtubers even hinted at the fact they had 3 teams on total war. One on a new fantasy IP, one on 3k2 and another in a major historical title.

JFC how mismanaged is this company?
 

Elttharion

Learned
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Jan 10, 2023
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1,045


According to Bellular CA canceled internally and quietly canceled Three Kingdoms 2 at the beginning of 2022 and they never said anything public about this. What the fuck are their devs even doing? Hyenas was apparently a separated team, Sofia was on Pharao and there is an skeleton crew on Warhammer 3. What about the rest? IIRC they have almost 900 hundred employees. Most people believed they had two other teams, one on 3K2 and another on a major Total War Game (40k, Med 3 or Empire 2, etc) that started full production around the launch of Warhammer 3 or a little bit earlier. I heard some people say youtubers even hinted at the fact they had 3 teams on total war. One on a new fantasy IP, one on 3k2 and another in a major historical title.

JFC how mismanaged is this company?

Another thing he says is that the DLC team has 80 people but development is terribly inefficient due to tech and management issues. Also Chorfs underperformed and wasnt profitable or wasnt as profitable as they wanted.
 

Cyberarmy

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Divinity: Original Sin 2
New hotfix

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1142710/view/3704833147731792112


  • When attacked, units should now only ignore orders (especially move orders) and return to combat when the majority of the unit is in danger and not in cases where a low number of entities face trouble. This should make cavalry in particularly feel more responsive when repeatedly charging, withdrawing and charging again.
  • Changed the requirement of the Chaos Dwarfs end game scenario objective from only 'Control' to 'Raze or Control' settlements, allowing Beastmen to complete the objective.
  • Fixed an instance preventing a valid battle map loading when fighting a sally out battle in the Athel Loren area.
  • The Empire Forts and Oak of Ages settlements will now give defensive supplies when under attack.
  • Fixed an issue in an Ulthuan Lakes battle map where impassable terrain was being created by a plane of water under the map
  • Fixed a Chaos Wastes mountains battle map not having a valid playable area.


Finally! Can't believe some of those were in the game from the start of IE.
 

Axioms

Arcane
Developer
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Jul 11, 2019
Messages
1,433
Community managers were a mistake.
Some people blame women but I think the issue is gender neutral. Vast majority of community managers male or female are zoomer or baby millennial, insanely "online left wing whiny", and rarely experts in whatever game they are managing. Communications majors are like business majors, where they think they are able to deal with any specific community/topic/industry but actually you need to be both good as business/comms *and* specialized in a given area. Which they never are.
 

Fedora Master

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Those people have always been entry level dumbo jobbers that simply serve as a barrier between the devs and the community, because devs also can't handle criticism or regular old Internet bantz. They are mouthpieces of whatever the higher ups want to say.
 

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